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As far as the aircraft takeovers are concerned.. in addition to box cutters and a whole lot of blood, mace was used in the 1st class cabin in at least one flight, the threat of a bomb was used in another. It is easy to speculate what you 'woulda' done... but when the stuff is hitting the fan, most won't act aggressively.

The element of surprise, and perceived outcome (landing in some remote airfield) was the key to the whole takeover.

Another thing to consider when takling about cell phone reception is the hijacked planes were flying at lower altitudes than they would be on a cross country flight.

The higher you are the less chance of connecting on a cell phone... the opposite applies as well.. lower=better..

KSM admitted to the crime BEFORE he was in custody, or tortured or what ever straw du jour the truther propagandist tries to sway you with.

KSM planned it, he admitts it, OBL facilatated the organization, he admitts it, and al-quada executed the plan, several of them admitt it in martyr videos, left to exalt them.

I don't want to enter one of those endless Truther arguments, but will say the wilfull denial of an overt attack on the US, and then blaming victims American for participating, is disgraceful. In the process, mass murderers become exonerated and even encouraged.

If the US government wanted a false flag operation as an excuse for invading parts of the Middle East, blowing up somewhere less vital and planting phony evidence pointing to Iraq, would have been more than sufficient. The World Trade Centre destruction alone caused more losses in pure financial disruption than a small war would have.



Mike F

didnt obl deny any part in all of the attack? ive read people that believe the o.s. state that.and tails do go between legs when the crap hits the fan. what i have a hard time grasping is that it happened in a life or death situation.mace, pepper spray, and any other stuff would affect the hijackers just as much as the "defenders" in close quarters. yes? i do appreciate the candor that you all have in explaining things to me. seems much nicer to have a civilized conversation while im trying to " get smarter" about this. thank you all. whatever side your on.

*** ON Topic - Civil Posts ***

Thank You.

Originally posted by guinnessford

didnt obl deny any part in all of the attack? ive read people that believe the o.s. state that.and tails do go between legs when the crap hits the fan. what i have a hard time grasping is that it happened in a life or death situation.mace, pepper spray, and any other stuff would affect the hijackers just as much as the "defenders" in close quarters. yes? i do appreciate the candor that you all have in explaining things to me. seems much nicer to have a civilized conversation while im trying to " get smarter" about this. thank you all. whatever side your on.

Osama BL initially denied responsibility for 9/11.

The waters get muddied as tapes start appearing that really don't seem to be him. On these he gloatingly takes responsibility.

Some evidence he died not long after 9/11 and has been kept virtually alive with fake announcements. Some us an actor that doesn't even resemble him.

But there has been rigorous tracking of OBL from the period earlier and he
was a key memeber in the planning.


Mike F

This post was started to let people know that KSM is guilty, admitted he was guilty and deserves all he gets...in my opinion.

You want to open a 9/11 arguement then go ahead. I will not participate.

"They heard explosions..."

"They got past a trillion dollar defense system..."

"First time in history steel melted..."

You people simply believe the worst about our government, our leaders and you believe the dirtballs who did this are incapable of being smart enough to pull it off.

The 9/11 commission said he did it with OBL. You "truthers" love to hold that body up as an example but deny this most important part.

GITMO is NOT "THE WORST PLACE ON EARTH" as another thread is stating.

They are fed, clothed, given play time, given prayer time and we scare the crap out of them and waterboard them some times if we think they have info.

I'm cool with that. If you aren't I can't change your mind. You won't change mine.

I will go back to what is "torture."

They can't bleed and no broken bones. Otherwise I am fine with it. And if we really need info then these are off the table also.

Originally posted by guinnessford
not exactly sure what you mean by that. what im trying to understand is the mindset of a handful of men that had a decision based on life or death. and im not sure how much time they had to react. the flight was off course for 30 plus minutes i think. at what point did the "calls" from wichever phone, come into play and how much time after. its very hard to take into consideration what a collective mindset is, or if it became a "mob" mentality. rest assured, all bets are off in a life or death situation, and 10 or so guys in my mind can take down 3 inadequately armed men in close quarters. let me know if im off with any of my guesses for time frame. i know that looking at my statements would lead you to think, "i know what happened, let me tell you..." but im very, very far from that. im trying to come to a conclusion of my own. im trying to learn, and by no way trying to cahange anyones mind gere. i want to study this tragedy, make my conclusion and keep it to myself.

They found out, through airphone calls to relatives, that 3 other planes had been hijacked and flown into buildings. That's when they did like you suggest and tried to take over the plane.

Your time frames seem roughly correct.

Originally posted by guinnessford
didnt obl deny any part in all of the attack?

Not really, In his fist statement, he said that his organization was "pure- like a white linen sheet" ( i.e. just in their cause) He was basically surprised at how aggressive the US was in retaliation. ( I suppose he thought we would cower like Spain did) he was almost pleading for negotiations, and playing the race/religion bias card.. by saying if it were the IRA that had done this the US would enter in diplomacy, but since they are Arabic/muslim the true angry face of the crusader was shown.

The audience this speech was intended for was for the Umma (people of muslim faith) It was damagee control and an attempt to rally Islam in favor of Bin Ladins neferious deeds. An after the fact justification.

Following statements from OBL were more damning.

ive read people that believe the o.s. state that.and tails do go between legs when the crap hits the fan. what i have a hard time grasping is that it happened in a life or death situation.mace, pepper spray, and any other stuff would affect the hijackers just as much as the "defenders" in close quarters. yes?

Perhaps some of the "muscle" But from reports comming from people on the plane as many as three hijackers entered the cockpit. then sealed the door ..So no, the mace would not be an issue for the ones in the cockpit..

i do appreciate the candor that you all have in explaining things to me. seems much nicer to have a civilized conversation while im trying to " get smarter" about this. thank you all. whatever side your on.

it's cool... The whole conspiracy schtick is a good way to get people to the intricate details of the events in 2001. Unfortunately the naive, disenfranchised, or stubborn just don't proceed with their quest for knowledge, but are bedazzled and distracted by cheap carny shell games, hyperbole, and rhetoric.

One only need to look at the sources of information.. then determine if they are credible and unbiased... or some anti-establishment propaganda effort.

Spreston,

How many calls were made from cell phones on flight 93?


Thank you,

CF

Originally posted by SPreston
The alleged cell phone calls from Todd Beamer continued long after Flight 93 had crashed. More evidence of cell phone fakery or calls made from the ground. Cee Cee Lyles cell phone calls to her husband (he recognized her cell phone #) were apparently made from high altitude at cruising speed. More likely from the ground at Cleveland.

you are mistaken...again...as usual.

Cee Cee's husband states that it is "close to 10 o'clock." This was when he answered the phone. How could they be in Cleveland at 10? Flight 93 was still in the air...The call was placed by her on her cell phone at 9:58. Flight 93's altitude was approximatley 5 thousand feet. NOT at a high altitude as you claim.

posted by CameronFox
Spreston,

How many calls were made from cell phones on flight 93?

In the air over Pennsylvania? NONE No air phone calls either.

On the ground in Cleveland, possibly away from the aircraft? Quite a few. From Todd Beamer's Verizon phone (908-202-4940) according to the FBI, looks like about 12 calls lasting about 18 minutes total.

Originally posted by SPreston

But you are assuming something.......

No Spreston... YOU are assuming. That is all you do. Care to show any evidence to back up your opinions?