BAe To Stop Making Tanks, page 1

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Topic started on 16-12-2008 @ 12:14 PM by fritz

According to the Daily Finance section of todays Daily Mail, on page 59, we in the UK are hell bent on loosing our last armoured vehicle manufacturer.

BAe has gone on record by saying that they may have to slash jobs and close factories as a result of defence spending cuts. BAe said, 'we are having to review our Land Systems business, which is the country's only tank manufacturer, after last week's decision by the government to cancel a £16B order for armoured vehicles'.

In my opinion, this has very little to do with the recession which the world finds itself in, at the present.

It is more about Gordon Browne's Labour Party and the continuing loathing certain MPs have towards the MOD and all it stands for, not least of which there is a £2B a year shortfall in direct funding despite what Gordon Browne and his puppy John Hutton say to the contrary!

England invented the tank for God's sake, in 1916 and they were used for the first time in 1917 at the Battle of Cambrai.

Alvis manufactured the Scorpion, Scimitar and Sabre CVR (T) series of light tanks until Labour cancelled forcing BAe to step in and acquire the company.

If we lose the ability to design and build our own tanks, who will we turn to provide the Army with tanks? America or even Russia? Far fetchyed? I think not!

But why boost another country's job front and manufacturing businesses?

Why not keep them here in the UK?

[edit on 16-12-2008 by fritz]

reply posted on 16-12-2008 @ 07:22 PM by bodrul

reply to post by fritz

kind of sucks,
so they are going to add to the fire by closing down and losing more Jobs,
whats happend to supplying the Arabs and indians and so on,

reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 04:13 AM by Lonestar24

Originally posted by fritz
...
But why boost another country's job front and manufacturing businesses?

Why not keep them here in the UK?...

Because BAE Systems Land Systems (sic) sucked in designing and producing successful land systems in the last years? The only significant sale they had was their M777 howitzer, AFAIK. And I think you shouldn´t look for guilt with your administration, its more that BAE has shown in recent years that they are hell-bent on developing into a systems supplier for the American military-industrial complex.

reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 07:23 AM by SKUNK2

BAE systems products are over-priced...It costs too much money to pay British workers to produce cr.ap vehicles. It's about time this company was abandoned. Maybe the Army can now actually get cheaper superior products from other countrys instead of wasting millions on junk that doesn't work properly.
The only mistake Britian has made with it's arms industry was closing dow the massive Vickers factory in Leeds...

reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 07:32 AM by horsegiver

We are already purchasing our tank transporters from Oshkosh{300], I worked on the prototype, making the patterns for the new interior of the HET variant that is now being built.
It does not surprise me to hear this, it's tragic to see so many jobs dissappearing abroad, and at the same time seeing Mr Brown continuing to import Foreign Nationals to undercut us all in the 'job market' such as it is.

Sadly,

Horsegiver.

reply posted on 17-12-2008 @ 11:47 AM by Fang

reply to post by horsegiver

I think you will see quite a significant exodus of foreign nationals from the UK as the recession gathers pace. Back on topic, BAe have not considered themselves a British company for some years. Their corporate strategy is to concentrate on the US defence market. I regret the passing of Vickers but they fell into BAe's hands because of a shortage of orders for the type of armoured vehicles they were famous for. I suspect the days of heavy armour are over.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 05:24 AM by deckard83

reply to post by bodrul

Middle east is difficult because of the military aid from the US which has to be spent on military equipment from the US.

According to this news.bbc.co.uk...
Israel gets $3 billion a year
Egypt gets $1.3 billion a year
Deals are being discussed with Saudi Arabia and more Gulf states.

reply posted on 18-12-2008 @ 11:19 AM by deltaboy

reply to post by fritz

You can buy the American most superior absolute overwhelming awesomeness, gorgeous tank in the world.

Seriously you could get your hands on the Merkava, they willing to sell.

reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 06:49 AM by SKUNK2

Originally posted by deltaboy
reply to post by fritz

You can buy the American most superior absolute overwhelming awesomeness, gorgeous tank in the world.

Seriously you could get your hands on the Merkava, they willing to sell.

I think us Brits will keep CR2 for at least another 15-20 years. it's been proven to be a much tougher tank than Abrams or Merkava will ever be...

reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 07:09 PM by Cutaway

Not suprised why many people are Unemployed, The Defence Cutbacks and jobs being axed.

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 03:12 AM by Fang

reply to post by Cutaway

Which particular defence cut backs are you referring to?

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 03:24 AM by Harlequin

reply to post by deltaboy

lol - the Merkava are being popped open left , right and centre - israel have lost more than the us and the uk combined - not really endeering for there sales claim of being the best tank in the world really.

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 03:33 AM by fritz

Originally posted by deltaboy You can buy the American most superior absolute overwhelming awesomeness, gorgeous tank in the world.

Then you must have fallen out of bed and woke up. HUH! The very idea!

DB, are you seriously suggesting that we Brits should start buying an inferior tank from you Yanks? Rolls eyes in utter despair.

Fang my friend, we are talking about the two new carriers and (at present) the Armour Replacement Programe [ARP] which was an estimated £16 B.

It would not surprise me to read about the Future Lynx Helicopter Programe being cancelled.

That is the problem with Gordon Browne and this Labour government. They are, IMO, very short sighted.

All I can say is this: Maggie Thatcher helped to close our coal mines, but Gordon Browne is succeeding in closing all our manufacturing businesses.
Pretty soon, we'll have nothing left to sell and will [probably] end up like some third rate country, totally reliant on UN handouts!

reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 11:13 AM by Fang

reply to post by fritz

I suspect you and I will have differing views on when we began our decline as a manufacturing nation and who was responsible for it. If any good comes out of the current economic chaos, it will hopefully be a realisation that there is a fundamental difference between the creation of real wealth and the manipulation of wealth via bizarre financial services. I don't think blighty will be joining the queue for the International soup kitchen just yet. The most annoying thing about this recession is that things were jogging along quite nicely until things started going pear shaped in the States.

Back on topic. I think the Carriers are safe (check the constituencies engaged in their construction) but I do wonder what we will be flying from them. The good people of Yeovil have been awarded a £70m contact to upgrade existing Lynxes and the talk of future Lynx is still positive. There is no 'off the shelf alternative and its sales potential is considered bright. I'm sure you know of the current debates going on in the Army regarding what is needed in the way of future armour. The Warrior upgrade is going ahead, and so are the FRES scout vehicle variants. As things stand, The Army is in the process of acquiring a hotch potch of vehicles for A/stan, so some quiet reflection about what else is needed is probably a good idea. Astute, T45, Trident replacement (waste of money), things really have been worse on the procurement front. The best news recently is the decision to upgrade and extend the life of the RN surface fleet. So, chin up!

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