NIST Investigation Violated National Fire Code

reply to post by CameronFox

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I did not ask about NIST and the fire code though did I? I was talking about standard operating procedures that were already in place and not followed. Do you need to ask again which SOPs so I can again give you one example?

I do not understand how someone can watch that footage, have any knowledge of physics and still come to the conclusion that all 3 buildings fell because two were hit by planes.

PS, did you witness jet fuel spilling over multiple floors?

I did actually witness the laws of physics be destroyed.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

It's called a diversion. Maybe look it up?

And also stated in another thread, I think that maybe it could have been a natural jet fuel FAE (of which thermobarics are closely related).

I have been trying to find a video of a grain silo explosion but to no avail. I want to compare what it looks like to this.

And also, I could be wrong as I'm not an explosives expert. But, I have yet to see you guys definitively shoot this down. If it were impossible, someone like Ryan Mackey or NIST would have calculated that by now. Don't you think? I don't have the expertise, means or capacity to do it. But, I don't understand why a natural FAE couldn't happen? When we are talking about jet fuel spilling into the basements. And "the smell of jet fuel in the air". That's exactly what a fuel-air explosion (FAE) is correct? If people smelled jet fuel, then scientifically, it had to be mixed/mixing into the air.

Or am I now to conclude that the debunkers want to move the goal posts and now say that the fuel didn't spill into the basement levels? If so, how did the lobby "blow out" and all the chaos etc.?

Angel. Have you asked Griff his opinion on the physics involved in the collapses? I think Griff who is one of the smarter members in the 911 forum, will disagree with what you witnessed.

Unless General was there, you can not ask him what he witnessed. However, if you read the NIST report, there were many reports of people smelling jet fuel, and firefighters seeing pools of jet fuel in many areas of the towers. Evacuees: (NIST NCSTAR 1-7A p. 17)


www.elevator-world.com...

I agree with this 100%. It was not NIST. It was Guilliani's office that decided to "scoop and dump" I believe.

Like I said, I can't blame NIST for their lacking. I have to write reports on buildings I haven't physically been on sometimes. Going from just a person's notes and pictures. It's difficult. Now, imagine NIST with hardly any evidence.

No. I could care less what anyone else "thinks." We are all entitled to think whatever we want. Truthers cannot disagree with each other? What does griff truly know about physics? I have no idea so what would his opinion mean to me about it?



That is the point, silly. He was not there. He did not witness this. He should not discuss as if it were a fact that he had first hand knowledge of. Don't tell people all about what was "really" going on when you are no more credible about that they are.



Yeah yeah yeah. I believe people smelled jet fuel. Everyone knows what jet fuel smells like right? The NIST report was a joke! You cannot use that toilet paper to back up a point to me. Sorry.

Good answer. I like people who think for themselves.

Not that I'm saying Cameron doesn't.

Well, I agree with you to a point. Perhaps I should have reworded my statement. Griff, is a qualified person when it comes to structural engineering and the physics that go along with it. His expertise lead him to believe that laws of physics were not broken during the collapses of at least Towers 1 & 2. In addition to Griff, I don't believe there has been one person that has shown any laws to be broken. (I could be mistaken)

Personally, since my education did not lead me down the S.E. path, I have to rely on the numerous professionals of that field. The same way I would find the appropriate doctor if I were to become ill. If serious enough, I would seek 2nd and third opinions from professionals in that area. (cardiac, pulmonary, etc.) This is what I did with the WTC collapses.

Truthers do not typically agree...only that it was an "Inside Job"



When you have 73% of the evacuees (North Tower) stating they smelled jet fuel, kerosene, etc... That should giver you a pretty good idea as to what was going on. If you want to ignore the NIST report and the people that were interviewed, that of course is your prerogative. You can't however just hand wave the countless statements made by first responders that smelled jet fuel and saw it at the base of elevator pits and in the elevators themselves.



[edit on 20-12-2008 by CameronFox]

You are good. You respond to people telling them how they are wrong about things they never said to bolster your case. It works on the sheep too. I never denied the jet fuel did I?

As for Griff, no offense to him but how do you know what he really is. This place is full of people who claim they are this and that. It is also full of people that clearly see buildings on the moon. As long as we are talking engineers though...how about this?

Aww shucks thanks.



Well, if I did that I wasn't aware of it.Although I never said you denied the existence of jet fuel. I was responding to this:



Which to this I understand your point.But it is a fact. Does he have "first hand knowledge?" That is silly (imo) It is a fact that there was and it was dispersed over very large areas. I'm not trying to "bolster my case." These are facts and have never been refuted by any evidence.




Griff has verified his credentials here and at the A&E4911 truth. I have also been the "middle man" between him and other engineers. Griff was complimented regarding his knowledge by a man that I hold in high regards. But really, if the message is accurate, the credentials aren't as important.




You gotta love John Lear.... (is he still around?)






Oh, good ol' Richard "boxman" Gage. He is clueless and has even admitted to being in over his head. He is not a fan of mine. U2U me if you'd like and I will tell you what happened.

It is not that easy. That website was not about the guy who made it but the many many statements from engineers that contributed. Just saying, as long as you put one up, ok here are a couple more. See how it works. So griff was complimented by someone you respect. What if someone I respect calls griff an idiot and Gage a genius? See what I am saying? The person that I respect the most on this subject would be me. I guess we will just have to call me wrong because I am not providing personal info to anyone at some website just to gain the respect of strangers.

reply to post by CameronFox

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How is Spike? Dora misses him.
She is hart broken.

Richard Gage is the founder of this group. He travels the world going to speaking engagments representing A&E For 911 Truth. Does he represent everyone there? I wouldn't think so, yet I would have to assume the vast majority of them agree with him. Griff is a member there as well and has stated his displeasure with the group.

To date, there is only one member there who has contributed anything to the collapses on 911. All the rest of his group have done nothing. No papers have been submitted for review, heck I don't they have listed anything original.

If someone calls another a genius or a schmuck on the internet, they have to prove it either way. The substance of their claims are what is important. You can be a structural engineer light... or you can be a dish washer at McDonalds. The proof is in the pudding.

reply to post by CameronFox

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bushstole04.com...



911review.com...

You can stand behind your sources, however I do not find then very creditable.
I do stand behind mine though, and many important people stand behind this claim.

reply to post by CameronFox

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All I was pointing out was that all of us can go grab an "expert" to hang our hat on - because there are many that disagree not because of Gage himself.- That is all I was getting at. I thought I made it clear in my follow up.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

reply to post by angel of lightangelo

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I understand where you are coming from.... but my guys are better than your guys.. neener neener neener

you're kidding right? All this article does is re-post the same rhetoric that you truthers have been parroting for 7 years.... WITHOUT evidence.



Oh sweet Jesus on a Popsicle stick.... Dr. Griffin the theologian was debunked almost 2 years ago. His paper was refuted by NASA scientist ryan mackey. Dr. Griffin was given two copies of Ryan Mackey's paper and has yet to comment on it.

Yeah, I will stand by Mackey... you stand by Griffin.

As for my defense on being a civil/structural engineer, I belong to AE4911truth. My name is proudly displayed on their site for a new investigation. If you would like , you can look me up on the DC website for professional engineers and you will see that I am one.

As far as the fire codes though, it's interesting what the anonymous poster said about it being only a guide and not a law. Has anyone looked into this? I haven't had time or the energy.

fine. i cannot combat logic like that.

reply to post by Griff

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Hey, don't take it personally. I do not care about any of that. I care more about consensus of a group of people qualified. You can always find a perfectly qualified expert to tell you whatever you like. You and Cameron know that. I am sure you are all you say and just as trustworthy. I just will not take any one guy's word about anything. Besides, the only real reason you are addressing me now is because when I was questioning Cameron, he threw you at me to distract me.