NIST Investigation Violated National Fire Code

NFPA 921: "Guide for Fire and Explosion Investigations" is the national fire code published by The National Fire Protection Association.
This is standard for fire and explosion investigations.

It clearly states that if there is a crime scene that involves fire, tests must be conducted to determine whether residues from any pyrotechnic or incendiary material can be found.

Unusual residues might remain from the initial fuel. Those residues could arise from thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials. - NFPA 921

This is from NIST's Answers to Frequently Asked Questions (August 30, 2006)

NIST did not test for the residue of these compounds in the steel.

More related information can be found below:
The Top Ten Connections Between NIST and Nano-Thermites
What is the Goal in the 9/11 Truth Community? Debates, or Justice?
As it is clearly pointed out in the first link, NIST had the technical capability to research this, as well as individuals knowledgeable in this field.

I ask you, the reader, was the WTC complex a crime scene?
Did it involve fire?
Why was the national standard not applied to the WTC "crime scene"?

This is a clear violation of the national fire code.

Where I live, within the USA, the National Fire Code has not been adopted in total. The city council adopted just parts of it per the Fire Marshall recommendations.

Same applies to the ICC Codes. Not all adopted in total.

Maybe, just maybe, New York has it's own codes.

This being said, common sense would tell you to save samples for later testing.

You guys can go back to bickering over this now.

reply to post by ashamedamerican


Since NIST and the rest of the inhabitants of planet Earth were well aware of what caused the fires, no additional tests were required.

In addition, the steel that was brought to Fresh Kills landfill was in fact inspected by the FBI.

Standard procedure dictates that a crime scene that involves fire, is tested for pyrotechnic or incendiary materials.

Now that the chemical signature of thermate has been found, it just makes them look even more incompetant and suspect for not testing.

This was the biggest crime scene they ever saw in their lives, yet they failed to follow standard procedure and national fire codes.

Instead of testing they just stated that they had no reason to test, well given the evidence that has come out, I would say they had more than enough reason to, they just ignored it.

Would NY's local codes even matter, since NIST was a federal agency conducting a federal investigation?

Now that I think about it, NY's codes are probably not applicable anyway. The WTC complex was not technically in NY. Nor was it in NJ. It was owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, and had its own jurisdiction. The land was set aside for this back when the buildings were first constructed. Not that this would necessarily have anything to do with NIST's responsibility following national code during its investigation.

posted by CameronFox

Since NIST and the rest of the inhabitants of planet Earth were well aware of what caused the fires, no additional tests were required.

In addition, the steel that was brought to Fresh Kills landfill was in fact inspected by the FBI.

Inspected by the FBI? What would they be looking for? Confessions from the steel? More videos to confiscate hidden inside the beams? What would the FBI know about inspecting steel? They can't even handle keeping ordinary evidence uncontaminated. They can't even stop their own whistleblowers from exposing them. They can't even find 9-11 evidence against Usama. That idiot who wore the dress turned them into political hitmen.



What caused the fires in the sub-basements? What caused the fires in WTC7? What caused the fires in the half melted cars out on the street? What caused the fires from the aircraft if there were no 'hijackers'? What caused the fires underground and hot spots which lasted for weeks? NIST is either complete incompetents or tools for the 9-11 perps.






[edit on 12/16/08 by SPreston]

reply to post by SPreston



Instead of your snide remarks in regards to asking steel questions, perhaps you care to learn about the clean up process?

NYPD Detective first grade Hal Sherman:

"At Ground Zero the CSU is responsible for photographing the site, recovering physical evidence, documenting body parts and any other physical evidence like weapons or a wallet, manning the temporary morgue at the site (as well as the city morgue up on 28th Street), inspecting debris that leaves the site, and inspecting debris as it gets sifted out at Staten Island. ...All evidence is documented– airplane parts were essential to the beginning investigation, but now they look for hair, fibers, glass particles, semen, ballistics. ...We ID every part. Pillars and beams are swiped for hair, tissue and blood, evaporated body evidence. We have two police officers with mortuary degrees, and they are either in the medical examiner's office or the police lab, because you must be a sworn police officer to take evidence.

Fresh Kills Crime Scene Info"

* The site covered 175 acres. • 24 local, state, and federal agencies participated, with as many as 1,000 workers a day • 17,000 tons of material were processed daily. • 55 FBI Evidence Response Teams worked the site -- over 1,000 agents -- plus FBI medics, safety officers, and other specialists. • New York Evidence Response Team members worked over 8,000 hours at the site, at the morgue, and at Ground Zero.
* There are currently 600 NYPD detectives, 50 FBI personnel...working tirelessly at Fresh Kills landfill.
* Number of U.S. Customs Agency volunteers working search and inspection at Fresh Kills Landfill: at least 193.
* Recovered at Staten Island: 4,257 human remains helped bring closure to hundreds of families; 54,000 personal items and 4,000 photographs, many returned to their owners; 1,358 personal and departmental vehicles; and thousands of tons of steel. [And not a single trace of an explosive device or its effects on steel.] S
* At the close of the Staten Island Landfill mission: • 1,462,000 tons of debris had been received and processed • 35,000 tons of steel had been removed (165,000 tons were removed directly at Ground Zero) • 806,000 tons of debris had been screened, an average of 75 tons per hour • 14,968 workers had been through the PPE process • 43,600 people (39,795 NYPD, 6,212 non-NYPD) had been through the Site Specific Indoctrination • Over 1.7 million man hours had been worked • Over 55,000 discrete pieces of evidence had been recovered • 4,257 body parts had been recovered • 209 victims had been positively identified.

Sources:

www.fbi.gov...

www.wtcgroundzerorelief.org...

www.cbp.gov...

www.nysm.nysed.gov...

disaster.pandj.com...

Originally posted by CameronFox

NYPD Detective first grade Hal Sherman:

...All evidence is documented– airplane parts were essential to the beginning investigation, but now they look for hair, fibers, glass particles, semen, ballistics. ...We ID every part.

Really? Then where were the aircraft part serial numbers to verify the aircraft were the aircraft in question? How come not one of the 4 aircraft allegedly involved in 9-11 was verified by serial numbers? Where were the maintenance record serial numbers which are fanatically applied by every airline by law and fastidiously recorded over and over? Surely some of those numerous aircraft parts you OFFICIAL STORY fanatics brag about would have had serial numbers of some kind. This part below seems mostly there. Surely it had a serial number didn't it? Unless . . . . . it was a serial number for a different plane. That might be a good reason not to want to record it and officially present it as evidence to the public.



Original Congresswoman Shelley Berkley photo

Surely this part too on a roof had a serial number.



Original image

reply to post by CameronFox


I guess you have forgotten this thread Cameron?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"Thousands of tons of steel were carted away from ground zero and recycled before any expert could examine what could have been tell-tale clues. Support trusses, fireproofing fragments and even burnt out electrical switches that might have given scientists and engineers insight were lost forever - even before an investigation was underway.

www.house.gov...

Notice that quote is NOT from a CT site, but written by and for the government.

Now, if they did such a great job at fresh kills, why would the government admit that it botched the investigation? Why would new laws have to be written to ensure they don't botch another investigation?



[edit on 12/16/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by SPreston

Inspected by the FBI? What would they be looking for?

Evidence? Just a thought.

Confessions from the steel?

How would you know unless you look?

Obviously, you never bothered to research all of the independent studies done on the dust right after 9/11 to determine the dust's exact physical and chemical composition so as to evaluate the potential harmful effects to first responders and cleanup crews.

Do you know how to use Google Scholar search? If so, go and do your own research of those papers and report back with your findings.

Originally posted by Griff
Notice that quote is NOT from a CT site, but written by and for the government.

"For" the government is right. I bet these agencies' public relations would never be so candid about their actions with the common public.

It's all about the guise of credibility. They don't need to be competent and make sense to get a pay check, only look like they are.

[edit on 16-12-2008 by bsbray11]

reply to post by ashamedamerican

I really believe that NIST has done everything in their power to stop the truth from coming out. People, who want to support NIST findings, obviously have not even read their reports. There is “nothing” to defend in their findings it has now been “proven” that NIST used Pseudoscience to defraud the public.

Was the WTC a crime scene, you better believe it was, however some one high enough in our Government didn’t think it was, and gave the orders to Mayor Giuliani to seal off ground zero from crime scene investigators, and anyone else who had any interests in gathering evidences. Never in my life, have I seen such a mess clean up so quickly, this is not how crime scenes are treated.

Why was the national standard not applied to the WTC "crime scene"?

My opinion is, because the Bush administration who was behind putting the 911 commission together and the 911 commission hired NIST to do their part of the Government story using Pseudoscience to hide the truth. (The reasoned the national standard was not applied) is because it would have “revealed” the truth.

NIST, was hired to explain to the public, a different event that never “happened.”
However, NIST science failed to stand up against the truth!

This is a clear violation of the national fire code.

Ashamedamerican, you are right however, NIST was hoping that we where all too stupid to reliesed it, hoping we where diluted in Brittney Spears and all the media spoon-fed lies. Nothing new Government is always playing on our intelligent by using the propaganda machines the Media.

Originally posted by cashlink
People, who want to support NIST findings, obviously have not even read their reports.

You haven't read it, yet YOU refute it. Interesting.

Originally posted by cashlink There is “nothing” to defend in their findings it has now been “proven” that NIST used Pseudoscience to defraud the public.

What was proven ...exactly?

Originally posted by cashlink

Was the WTC a crime scene, ............ gave the orders to Mayor Giuliani to seal off ground zero from crime scene investigators, and anyone else who had any interests in gathering evidences. Never in my life, have I seen such a mess clean up so quickly, this is not how crime scenes are treated.

Really? No investigators? I suggest you read my above post.

Mess cleaned up quickly? Hmmm... last piece of steel was Column No. 1,001 B of 2 World Trade Center it was removed in May of 2002. Roughly 8 months seem quick to you?

Originally posted by cashlink

My opinion is, because the Bush administration who was behind putting the 911 commission together and the 911 commission hired NIST to do their part of the Government story using Pseudoscience to hide the truth. (The reasoned the national standard was not applied) is because it would have “revealed” the truth.

The 911 Commision did not hire NIST. Congress passed the National Construction Safety Team bill in October 2002, giving NIST the authority to conduct an investigation of the World Trade Center collapses.

Originally posted by cashlink

Ashamedamerican, you are right however, NIST was hoping that we where[sic] all too stupid to reliesed[sic] it, hoping we where diluted in Brittney Spears and all the media spoon-fed lies. Nothing new Government is always playing on our intelligent[sic] by using the propaganda machines the Media.

I would ask you what you have found personally from your scathing critic of the NIST reports that lead to believe that they are erroneous...but I know you don't have an answer.

Originally posted by cashlink

I really believe that NIST has done everything in their power to stop the truth from coming out. People, who want to support NIST findings, obviously have not even read their reports. There is “nothing” to defend in their findings it has now been “proven” that NIST used Pseudoscience to defraud the public.

You should audition for Saturday Night Live. You do a great parody.

reply to post by CameronFox

Since NIST and the rest of the inhabitants of planet Earth were well aware of what caused the fires, no additional tests were required.

What dose ( NIST Investigation Violated Fire Code) have to do with your comment?

In addition, the steel that was brought to Fresh Kills landfill was in fact inspected by the FBI.

What was the FBI inspecting at the fresh Kills landfill?
Was the FBI testing the steel for thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials?
If the FBI was testing for these residues can you please show your sources, Thank you.

Originally posted by cashlink

What dose ( NIST Investigation Violated Fire Code) have to do with your comment?

Sir, I simply stated that NIST was aware of what started the fire. Remember the two planes that hit the towers? Then they exploded? Yeah, and then jet fuel was dispursed in several areas? Yeah, that's what started the fires. No need to look any further to appease the paranoid minds of a few. It was 100% CLEAR what started the fires.

THAT'S what my comment had to do with it. FAR from a red herring that you incorrectly claimed I was guilty of.

What was the FBI inspecting at the fresh Kills landfill?
Was the FBI testing the steel for thermite, magnesium, or other pyrotechnic materials?
If the FBI was testing for these residues can you please show your sources, Thank you.

My sources are listed in my previous post. I will not be baited into another "list your sources" battle. You always get sources from us and you NEVER i repeat NEVER read them or you just can't comprehend them. Either way, you are shown on a daily basis, answers to almost all of the questions you have raised here at ATS.

posted by jthomas
Obviously, you never bothered to research all of the independent studies done on the dust right after 9/11 to determine the dust's exact physical and chemical composition so as to evaluate the potential harmful effects to first responders and cleanup crews.

Oh really jthomas? Do you have a clue? Why did they lie to New Yorkers and tell them the dust was safe immediately after 9-11? Did you not know that New Yorkers were dying from the toxic pollution covered up by the Bush Regime?

Congratulations jthomas. You have successfully attracted attention to more Bush Regime 9-11 crimes. You have become one of our finest allies in our battle against the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY. Keep up the good work jthomas.

New York: 9/11 toxins caused death

May 24, 2007
A woman who died of lung disease five months after the September 11, 2001 attacks has been added to the medical examiner's list of attack victims.

The groundbreaking move on Wednesday marked the first time the city of New York has officially declared that exposure to World Trade Center toxins following the 9/11 attacks contributed to a person's death.

The death of U.S. Department of Education attorney Felicia Dunn-Jones, 42, five months after she became trapped in dust caused by the collapse of the first World Trade Center tower, is now being considered a homicide and her name has been added to the official list of World Trade Center victims.

The city said the September 11 death toll at the World Trade Center now stands at 2,750. Dunn-Jones will be listed on the September 11 memorial when it opens in 2009, a spokeswoman for the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation told The Associated Press.

The confirmation came in a letter by Dr. Charles S. Hirsch, the city's Chief Medical Examiner, to Dunn-Jones' family attorney, Richard H. Bennett on May 18.

"Accumulating evidence indicates that in some persons exposure to WTC dust has caused sarcoidosis or an inflammatory reaction indistinguishable from sarcoidosis," Hirsch stated in the letter.

"It is likely, with certainty beyond a reasonable doubt, that exposure to WTC dust...was contributory to (Dunn-Jones') death."

Dunn-Jones' estate had previously received a $2.6 million death benefit from a federal fund to compensate victims' families, AP reported.

Sarcoidosis is a rare and debilitating disease which causes lesions, most often appearing on the liver, lungs, skin, and lymph nodes.

"The City Medical Examiner has now accepted what thousands of people with 9/11-related illnesses and their doctors have long understood: that Ground Zero dust was harmful and even deadly," U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney, a Democrat from New York, said in a statement on Wednesday.

www.cnn.com...

Ms. Whitman has come under fire from lawmakers over the years for saying the air near ground zero was safe to breathe in the weeks following September 11. Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Nadler have also faulted the EPA for insufficiently testing and cleaning buildings near ground zero after the attack.

A federal appellate court last month threw out a lawsuit against Ms. Whitman, ruling that her statements about the air quality in New York were not "conscience-shocking." Ms. Whitman has repeatedly denied misleading the public about the air quality; attempts to reach her late yesterday were unsuccessful.

One person who will not be asked to testify in Congress is Mayor Giuliani, who has drawn criticism in some quarters for not insisting more forcefully that workers at ground zero wear facemasks at the site. Many workers have since come down with respiratory illnesses, which studies indicate may be linked to the toxic dust at ground zero.

www.nysun.com...

Preston....

That poor woman was trapped during the collapse. This was not caused by her prematurely returning to her home.

Please list one death that has been determined to be caused by people returning to their homes too early.

reply to post by CameronFox

Sir, I simply stated that NIST was aware of what started the fire. Remember the two planes that hit the towers? Then they exploded? Yeah, and then jet fuel was dispursed in several areas? Yeah, that's what started the fires. No need to look any further to appease the paranoid minds of a few. It was 100% CLEAR what started the fires.

Besides trying to deliberately railroad this thread, you have not answered any of my questions. However, I see you are all over me like a viper leaping for my ThroteYogart!

What dose ( NIST Investigation Violated Fire Code) have to do with your comment?

You still can not answer me!

You are avoiding the discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards and with an apparent deductive logic, which forbears any actual material fact.

reply to post by cashlink


WHAT?????

The thread Title is what Cash?

Crime scenes that involve fire need to be investigated. IT was OBVIOUS what caused the fires.

What question do you want answered.