If Lloyd is a better witness and is less prone to error or hyperbole than he is then Fr. McGraw might not be as veritable a witness. But of course, the common consensus is that all members of the Catholic Church are evil pedophiles and are all liars in on the Catholic super secret (yet some how wide out in the open) Jesuit whore of Babylon Conspiracy. I don't believe any of that but I want to note that even if that was true, does that make all Catholic clergy members compulsive liars? NO. Nigh unprovable. I would trust that priest wayyyy before I'd trust that taxi driver (just a feeling). Not from a racist point of view but rather from who is likeliest to be the most level headed in such a situation. He seems to have claimed that a pole hit Lloyd's car. He guessed that the man had been hurt.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by newagent89]

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
"This" being the dead bodies and injured all over the place. Were you not paying attention? Go back up and read it again. It is ok, it takes my nephew a few times to get stuff with words in it too.
[edit on 17-12-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

I'm sorry for your nephew. Must run in the family.

Whatever you say. I drove past the building at 10 am that morning as my wife and I left the city for home so can only tell you what I saw. I was a reserve officer in the Navy Command Center about 10 months before 9/11 so I knew some of those who died in the NCC. I've worked in the building since for a few years, from 2004 to 2004 so have more than a passing interest in this whole matter.

But if you say there weren't dead and injured scattered around the Pentagon that morning, knock yourself out.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by pinch]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
We know for a fact that traffic going southbound was diverted off the highway on the Columbia Pike exit just before the bridge where Lloyde was located just after the attack...

Is saying "duh" a violation of the terms of use?

I think securing the roads surrounding the Pentagon in the immediate aftermath of an airliner slamming into the building is pretty much a given.

Perhaps YOU think that is remarkable or strange or out of the ordinary, but most, I think, wouldn't.

By the way, getting back to the topic under consideration and the questions I've asked you two times now that you are avoiding, can you answer if you placed Father McGraw under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why, and also if you didn't, why shouldn't people look at you as an enabler of this whole conspiracy?

Originally posted by SPreston

Has anybody come up with any sensible reason why the 9-11 perps failed to get pictures of the light pole through the taxi windshield? Don't those federal agents carry cameras to photograph crime scenes? That would have been a most important photo which only the most imcompetent[sic] of idiots would have forgotten to take.

If you are going to call someone "incompetent idiots," you should be able to spell it correctly. don't you think?

I love this too. Spreston, you are calling the government idiots, yet you credit them for pulling off the most incredible conspiracy in the history of mankind.

Why didn't Stephen McGraw see the light pole through the windshield? He was allegedly there within a few feet of the taxi. If he thought the taxi driver was hurt, why didn't he hop over those little walls and check on him? Is he forbidden to help poor working black people? Then he could have helped remove the light pole.

Hmmm.... lets see. In less than 2 seconds you are watching a plane traveling at about 780 feet per second slam into a building. Do you think he was concentrating on looking at a cab?
I would have to assume the big plane and the big boom, grabbed pretty much all of his attention at that time.

Originally posted by pinch
can you answer if you placed Father McGraw under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why, and also if you didn't, why shouldn't people look at you as an enabler of this whole conspiracy?

You worked at the Pentagon, pinch?

Can you answer if you placed G W Bush under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why? You might have had the opportunity to do so, if you saw him there. Remember, he lied to the world when he claimed WMD in Iraq.

Can you answer if you placed Condi Rice under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why? You might have had the opportunity to do so, if you saw her there. Remember, she lied to the world when she said that they could never imagine planes being flown into prominent buildings.

I won't bother asking about Rumsfeld and Cheney...

If you didn't arrest these people, then why are you enabling them to perpetuate the war on terra?

If you're going to start making citizens arrest for people who tell lies, then you might as well start at the very top.

posted by SPreston
Has anybody come up with any sensible reason why the 9-11 perps failed to get pictures of the light pole through the taxi windshield? Don't those federal agents carry cameras to photograph crime scenes? That would have been a most important photo which only the most imcompetent[sic] of idiots would have forgotten to take.

posted by CameronFox
If you are going to call someone "incompetent idiots," you should be able to spell it correctly. don't you think?

I love this too. Spreston, you are calling the government idiots, yet you credit them for pulling off the most incredible conspiracy in the history of mankind.

OH NO. It's the spelling police tearing down my door. What can I say? Guilty your honor. It's these tired old eyes and that dadburned m right next to the n. Who designed that blasted keyboard? Away with this spelling sinner to the dungeon.

But but but it was just the guys who forgot to get the pic of the light pole through the windshield I was calling 'incompetent idiots. That little bugger tried to sneak in there again, but I got it right time this time. Can't take another spell of waterboarding with them nasty Bush Regime spelling police.

And, lest we forget; they are no longer pulling off this most incredible conspiracy any longer, are they? We done exposed them, and it is now just a matter of time before an aroused and angry American public sends them off to the gallows to get their necks stretched. You do believe in the death penalty for murdering traitors don't you?

posted by SPreston
Why didn't Stephen McGraw see the light pole through the windshield? He was allegedly there within a few feet of the taxi.

posted by CameronFox
Hmmm.... lets see. In less than 2 seconds you are watching a plane traveling at about 780 feet per second slam into a building. Do you think he was concentrating on looking at a cab?
I would have to assume the big plane and the big boom, grabbed pretty much all of his attention at that time.

Well maybe so. But I would think the priest Stephen McGraw would be concentrating more on getting his script right; since the actual big plane flew Over the Naval Annex and North of the Citgo and not anywhere near those light poles and the taxi and taxi driver on the road next to him. You do agree that the plane had to hit the 5 light poles to knock them down don't you? I mean if that big plane flew anywhere near that big boom; then the light poles are just too cotton picking far away to get knocked down. You do see that don't you?



Of course maybe you have some far-fetched explanation how that north path airplane can reach out and knock them light poles down.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Can you answer if you placed G W Bush under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why? You might have had the opportunity to do so, if you saw him there. Remember, he lied to the world when he claimed WMD in Iraq.

Tezz, being an Aussie, I assume you are not aware that there are certain laws when attempting a citizens arrest. It varies from state to state.

First and foremost, I would tell you that if Pinch or anyone even approached Bush, he would either get tackled or shot. I don't know the law about detaining the President of the United States, but I think it's highly unlikely.

Look up the attempted citizen arrest of Carl Rove. 4 Peace activists were arrested for this.

Here are some hints on citizens arrest: (Ranke take notes for when you get Lloyde and the Priest)

* Every state in the US has different laws; guidelines are not the same, and your best option is often simply to observe and report. Crime Stoppers may pay you a reward.
* A citizen's arrest must be made during or immediately after the crime, or else it is illegal. In some states the crime must be a felony, only a Police Officer may make an arrest on a misdemeanor.
* By making a citizen's arrest, you're exposing yourself to possible lawsuits or criminal charges (e.g. impersonating police, false imprisonment, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest) if the wrong person is apprehended or if you violate a suspect's civil rights. This risk varies considerably from country to country, but in the U.S. in particular, a citizen's arrest is a legal minefield, and dealing with a suspect's lawyers is often more dangerous than apprehending the suspect.
* The State of North Carolina does not recognize a citizens arrest. . In fact, you are more likely to be arrested for trying it than anyone you might bring in, due to the state's vigilante laws.
* Unless you want your last words to be 'I am making a citizens arrest' do not attempt to apprehend a suspect with a weapon, just get a good description to give to the police.

All in all, Mr. Ranke has a much better chance at arresting his two " government plants," than Pinch making a citizens arrest of a Federal Official.



[edit on 17-12-2008 by CameronFox]

posted by pinch Paisley
I'll ask again, Craig.

You claim you have evidence that McGraw is lying.

Did you accuse him of lying to his face (the way you always tell people to do with Roberts or the other Pentagon Policemen)?

If you didn't, why?

Did you make a citizen's arrest and turn him over to the Arlington Police for charges of lying

posted by tezzajw
Can you answer if you placed G W Bush under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why? You might have had the opportunity to do so, if you saw him there. Remember, he lied to the world when he claimed WMD in Iraq.

posted by CameronFox
* Every state in the US has different laws; guidelines are not the same, and your best option is often simply to observe and report. Crime Stoppers may pay you a reward.
* A citizen's arrest must be made during or immediately after the crime, or else it is illegal. In some states the crime must be a felony, only a Police Officer may make an arrest on a misdemeanor.
* By making a citizen's arrest, you're exposing yourself to possible lawsuits or criminal charges (e.g. impersonating police, false imprisonment, kidnapping, or wrongful arrest) if the wrong person is apprehended or if you violate a suspect's civil rights. This risk varies considerably from country to country, but in the U.S. in particular, a citizen's arrest is a legal minefield, and dealing with a suspect's lawyers is often more dangerous than apprehending the suspect.
* The State of North Carolina does not recognize a citizens arrest. . In fact, you are more likely to be arrested for trying it than anyone you might bring in, due to the state's vigilante laws.
* Unless you want your last words to be 'I am making a citizens arrest' do not attempt to apprehend a suspect with a weapon, just get a good description to give to the police.

There are no state or federal statutes on lying. If there were, half the nation's fishermen would be in the clinker. Your strawman argument is going nowhere. Wives lie to husbands and husbands lie to wives and during the X-mas season almost all children are lied to. Are you two faithful defenders of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY going to citizens arrest all these kiddies' parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles too?

The priest Stephen McGraw can lie all he wants to. Only fools will believe him if his lies do not add up. The only time when lies are punishable in the US are when under oath; and that is rarely punished in US courtrooms anymore. Lying is encouraged in the good old USA nowadays; because liars are so much easier to control. All of our politicians are liars and most of our journalists. Most preachers lie to keep their parisheners under their thumb.



[edit on 12/17/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by Stillresearchn911
Father McGraw clearly states that he deduced that the plane hit the light poles ALSO b/c he HEARD the plane hit the pole...

he verifies he heard the jet hit the lightpole.

Bunk bunk bunk...

jthomas reminds us all the time how LOUD an aircraft would be, if it was flying low at high speed.

How was the priest able to discern the 'twang' sound of a breaking light pole amongst the screaming engines? Bunk bunk bunk...

Then again, considering that there was no damage to the Pentagon lawn, the sound of the plane hitting the pole must have been INCREDIBLY LOUD to transfer all of the kinetic energy into sound waves. Afterall, the pole must have landed on the Pentagon lawn, like a feather devoid of energy, as it never disturbed the grass. Maybe the sound waves created a cushion for the pole to also float upon??? (Sorry, I didn't want to resort to using debunker physics.)

Bunk bunk bunk...

[edit on 18-12-2008 by tezzajw]

posted by Stillresearchn911
Father McGraw clearly states that he deduced that the plane hit the light poles ALSO b/c he HEARD the plane hit the pole...

he verifies he heard the jet hit the lightpole.

posted by tezzajw
jthomas reminds us all the time how LOUD an aircraft would be, if it was flying low at high speed.

How was the priest able to discern the 'twang' sound of a breaking light pole amongst the screaming engines? Bunk bunk bunk...

The desperation of a fanatical 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY defender as he sinks into the quicksand along with his favorite fairy tale. The priest Stephen McGraw estimated the alleged aircraft was just 20 feet above the roof of his car. Of course that is not possible because the actual aircraft was several hundred feet to the north on a different flight path, and those light poles up there which are 40 feet tall, were not knocked down were they?



But if the aircraft was 20 feet above his car, the lowest part of the aircraft would have been the wing hung Rolls-Royce RB211 turbofan engines, screaming at full throttle at an official 535 mph. McGraw did not actually use the word 'twang'. He claimed he heard 'the first noise', 'the noise of clipping the light pole' which considering that the poles laid right over like gentle little lambs, might be more of a 'poof' sound don't you think?



How come McGraw did not hear five 'poofs' over the sound of the screaming turbofan engines, since five light poles were allegedly knocked down gently right next to their bases? And how come he said nothing about hearing the loud noise of the engines which should have drowned out every other sound? In fact his ears should have been stunned so much, that he should have not heard anything for a number of seconds; including the sound of the explosion at the wall about a second later. His tale does not add up does it? The ground effects of a 90 ton aircraft 20 feet above him moving at 535 mph should have made quite a sound too, and should have shaken the heck out of his car. But somebody forgot to write that into McGraw's script didn't he? How could someone not witness that scary reality, and not be overawed by it?



It seems he is a lying priest, armed with a script, already late for a funeral at ANC in front of the Pentagon, which he did not know was the Pentagon, even though he was from the area. Doesn't he sound like a compulsive liar already trapped in a lie and digging his hole deeper and deeper? Maybe his scheduled funeral was a lie too. Did anybody check that? The ANC workers claimed the ANC funerals went on as scheduled. Was there one funeral with honor guard which stood around for hours waiting for an Opus Dei priest or not?



[edit on 12/18/08 by SPreston]

Originally posted by tezzajw
Can you answer if you placed G W Bush under a citizen's arrest and if you didn't, why?

For the record, I never saw President Bush at the Pentagon when I worked there. I did see him, though, along with 15,000 other people at the Sept 11 memorial dedication last September. I also had the opportunity that morning to shake Henry Kissinger's hand - truly an honor.

But to answer your question, one would have to be a total moron to try and make a "citizen's arrest" of a sitting President (or a former Pres, for that matter or any ranking government official). But you can go ahead and try, Tzz. Please. Help yourself. Give it your best shot - if you really believe the Pres is guilty of mass murder or genocide or whatever else turns you folks on.

As far as a "citizens arrest" of Pres Bush goes, there's no reason whatsoever to even think about it because he has done nothing wrong.

The CIT interviews with McGraw, however, and Lloyd and anyone else they claim is "part of the conspiracy" or are "deep covert assets or agents" (whatever it is Aldo calls them) show me that they have the perps in hand and could have very well made an arrest based on their "evidence".

Why hasn't that happened? You'd think that Craig and Aldo don't have the power of their convictions and would rather just let this thing keep piddling along without taking any action.

Why would that be?

[edit on 18-12-2008 by pinch]

Originally posted by pinch
As far as a "citizens arrest" of Pres Bush goes, there's no reason whatsoever to even think about it because he has done nothing wrong.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with getting us into a quagmire in Iraq on the pretense of lies.

Is saying "duh" against the T&C's around here?

posted by pinch
I also had the opportunity that morning to shake Henry Kissinger's hand - truly an honor.

Were you one of those shaking the hand of the priest Stephen McGraw and congratulating him for whatever he had accomplished? Do you support and defend his lies pinch?

Shaking the hand of Communist professor Henry the K from Harvard University and New World Order insider was an 'honor'? Yuck. I could never have gotten the stink scrubbed off my hand soon enough. Geeze what a dishonor.



Henry the K was the SOB who set policy for abandoning American POWs and MIAs to death and slavery until they died, abandoned by the nation and people they faithfully served. Henry the K is a bonafide war criminal. Are you sure you are in the US Military pinch? Did you abandon the POWs and MIAs too?



[edit on 12/18/08 by SPreston]