Obama stimulus plan: $500B, $700B, $1T, $1.2T...and counting

Two weeks ago $500Billion was enough, they've seen something that bumps that up a few hundred Billion.

online.wsj.com...

DECEMBER 13, 2008
Meatier Stimulus Plan in Works
Obama Team Considering Beefing Up Earlier Goals; $1 Trillion Is Possible

President-elect Barack Obama's economic team is considering an economic-stimulus program that will be far larger than the two-year, half-trillion-dollar plan under consideration two weeks ago, according to people familiar with the team's thinking.
...
With the unemployment rate now expected to hit 9% without aggressive intervention, Obama aides and advisers have set $600 billion over two years as "a very low-end estimate," one person familiar with the matter said. The final number is expected to be significantly higher, possibly between $700 billion and $1 trillion over two years.
...
On the upper bounds, liberal economists in the team have staked out $600 billion in the first year and $300 billion to $600 billion in the second, depending on economic conditions in 2010. Incoming Obama White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel said early this week he had tasked National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers to sound out conservative and liberal economists on their views....

Here's the problem you will not see in the news.

Mr. Obama has said the package will include an initial tax cut and a massive infusion of funds for roads, bridges, water systems, school repair, spreading broadband access, promoting health-care information technology, improving energy efficiency in buildings, renewable-energy projects, and assisting struggling state and local governments. But the balance of those projects is still under debate.

Building of anything doesn't mean hundreds or thousands of guys with shovels digging ditches and making roads, like you see as shining examples of this type of work with the grainy black and white film used on news about the last great depression. The times have totally changed and heavy equipment will be used instead of manpower. A few dozen guys can rebuild a decent bridge. It costs a lot of money, but it's the equipment that does the work.

Same applies to any utility work or school buildings.

Spreading broadband, sounds impressive. You got 2 guys on a directional borer and another couple of guys following the head as it bores underground. This is not manpower but machine driven work. That's it for fiber optic cable. A guy or two to set up nodes and your done. If you use broadband over power lines, just about everyone has this already in place, not many man hours here for the work they are looking for.

Who makes the money on these jobs. Well, you have a few equipment operators and laborers making prevailing wages on a federal funded project. Some money goes to design and engineering work. The bulk of the money goes to the companies that own the equipment, the same guys that everyone says Bush loves and coddles with. So much for change.

Green energy and all the associated industry just waiting for the right moment to expand. Wind mills, ran by billionaires, and solar panels owned by energy companies, or individuals who want to live off the grid. There is limited industry within this market. Reality time, if it was financially sound, it would be in place in far larger numbers than it is.

Which begs the question of what have all these above items have in common. They all need environmental impact statements and they need the blessing of the courts. No bridge, some fish may be endangered. Windmills, what about migratory birds being killed? Road repair, better be outside the mating season for regional wildlife or the noise may interfere with breeding. Lawsuit after lawsuit both pro and con.

Lawsuits can and do add months and years to projects. We need jobs now. This is the problem for these types projects.

Placing medical records online saves billions. Let's take a giant leap and just say their are currently 45,000,000 Americans who have no insurance and keep their health records at home. This one is just plain stupid and a 30 second campaign sound clip. Once again, who's making the money here. Insurance industry and some computer software companies. Once again, big republican supporters if you believe the demoncrats. No change here.

Now for the real budget buster. Assisting States and Cities. How can the Federal legislature say no to other politicians after nationalizing the insurance industry, banking system, and trying to nationalize the auto industry. There are tremendous shortfalls in budgets throughout the States and many do not have the luxury of the Federal government in just printing more money and operating in deficit spending. Many States require a balanced budget or a surplus. That's it, don't have enough; cut manpower and services. It's that simple. Too bad the Congress hadn't heard of this several months ago and saved us trillions of wasted tax dollars for people that could really use it, now.

Sounds like typical liberal tax and spend.
TBH I dont mind either too much.. IF the spending includes me as much as the taxing. But since its me and my hubby and we dont have kids it just seems like we get the taxes and everyone else gets the spending.
OTOH if we're going to see more of the kind of stimulus where we all got a check; well I guess thats not so bad IMO.

I dont care anymore. Spend away. Print away. Im just going to keep buying gold and silver so spend away government you know you want to. Your just going to be putting money in my pocket. I urge everyone to do the same.

Seeing how the government has no money and can never pay back what it owes why not just spend a Google or two on the public works program ?

We are dealing with imaginary numbers at this point and the end result will be when the government is handed over to the central banks and we the public will live in heavily restricted and controlled areas .

We are witnessing the end of sovereign nations , the collapse of a super power , and the birth of a new way of life for the consumers of the world based on control and manipulation rather then freedom and liberty .

Oh well it was fun well it lasted

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Max_TO]

reply to post by mybigunit


I like your thought but lets not forget what FDR did , made it illegal for privet citizens to own gold . We could see this happen again , once the currencies are rendered useless you can bet the farm that the government will be coming for your gold .

I for one want to start a seed bank and look into getting a machine that pulls water out of the humidity in the air .

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Max_TO]

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Max_TO]

Here's what would help Americans, in ten easy steps...

1. Drastically reduce all unnecessary government agencies and functions, then cut taxes. We have way too many agencies. For example, we already had police, FBI, and NSA/CIA so why was there a need for a new Department of Homeland Security? 9/11 should have been investigated by NYPD and the FBI, period.

2. Lower and cap all interest rates on existing and future consumer loans of all types. The cap would be a federal law. Your credit card company could no longer gouge you with high interest rates and fees.

3. Allow poorly performing companies to go under and support good, solid companies that offer actual value. Buy American, but only from solid, financially sound companies that give you quality and value for your money. Stop the banker bailout until the industry enacts severe reforms. No more bailouts to carmakers or anyone else. If they can't stand on their own two feet, they need to restructure or go bye bye.

4. Abolish the Fed. It's unconstitutional, anyway. Revive JFK's concept of the U.S. Treasury issuing currency instead of the Fed.

5. Adopt an isolationist and protectionist foreign policy. Close down most of the approx 300 U.S. military bases around the world... we can't afford it. Get the heck out of Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Trade tariffs and barriers that would give a huge advantage to made-in-America... you bet.

6. Award start-up grants to individuals and small companies that offer brilliant ideas for things like self-sufficient, off-the-grid, alternative energy powered homes and commercial architecture. We need to get away from all the price gouging grids.

7. Re-introduce a nationwide network of passenger speed trains and freight trains. Our rail system is a shadow of its former self and that's been a drain on the economy.

8. Enact reforms in all industries. There are CEO and CFO types like Madoff who are ruining capitalism with greed and corruption. Clean them out and get the reforms in place that will prevent the corruption.

9. Pass a law that will require the USA to be energy self-sufficient within a decade. The oil companies will have to either find and produce fuel in the USA or switch to another form of energy. Being dependent on foreign oil has meant that trillions of U.S. dollars have gone to the Middle East and elsewhere.

10. Stop money transfers to Mexico and other countries. Keep dollars in America. Stop dollar transfers from the USA to Swiss and Cayman banks. Legalize marijuana and tax it. A lot of that reefer money is going off shore.

reply to post by switching yard


Some good examples of ways to start dealing with the problems that face the U.S right now , but you are assuming that those in power actually want to fix the problem .
I am afraid that this is by design and the actions that those in power are taking only go to prove this very point to me .

is it really the solution to bail them out
or it will only make thing worse

reply to post by Max_TO


I agree with you 100% !

There are so many ways to fix the problems... except the main one which are the international conglomerates and special interests groups who want and encourage (AND DONATE A TON OF MONEY TO POLITICIANS) the outsourcing of America. What do they care, they can retire in a foreign country and have foreign servants lick their boots. They could care less what is in the interest of the people of the United States.

Energy Independence = ALGAE OIL (overland ocean water pipelines to the desert southwest.. we can produce enough for domestic consumption and then sell the rest) (Would have immediately regulate that this could not be open for speculator trade and 100% domestic use only until the time we make more than needed)

Just one example but solutions to many problems could be done if we get the special interest groups out of the way.

reply to post by switching yard


For heaven's sake, switching yard, we could never do that! It's much to well thought out, intelligent and sensible.

I would add two things to the list. Get rid of all the lawyers that hold public office and prohibit lawyers from EVER holding office again. After all, it's the lawyers who write the bills that end up screwing everyone but them and their buddies. And second, punish SEVERELY those individuals/corporations that use deceptive/unethical/corrupt/illegal, etc. practices.

Originally posted by switching yard
1. Drastically reduce all unnecessary government agencies and functions, then cut taxes. We have way too many agencies. For example, we already had police, FBI, and NSA/CIA so why was there a need for a new Department of Homeland Security? 9/11 should have been investigated by NYPD and the FBI, period.

Well, you know Obama won't do that. He's all for big government.

And I'm still wonder how he's going to cut taxes, yet have a "big infusion" of money for roads, bridges, etc?

Originally posted by switching yard
5. Adopt an isolationist and protectionist foreign policy. Close down most of the approx 300 U.S. military bases around the world... we can't afford it. Get the heck out of Iraq and Afghanistan ASAP. Trade tariffs and barriers that would give a huge advantage to made-in-America... you bet.

And what are you going to do with the troops that now don't have jobs?

Originally posted by switching yard
9. Pass a law that will require the USA to be energy self-sufficient within a decade. The oil companies will have to either find and produce fuel in the USA or switch to another form of energy. Being dependent on foreign oil has meant that trillions of U.S. dollars have gone to the Middle East and elsewhere.

Damn straight! We went to the moon in a decade. We can get the oil monkey off our back in that time, too.

but where will it stop....., when american
will be force bail themself.