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Consciousness, The universe, and God

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posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 02:01 PM
I have recently seen a lot of threads that have to do with God, and I wanted to share my thoughts on the subject.

Personally, I grew up Jewish but several years ago religion just seemed 'flawed' to me, so I explored and looked into other religions to see if I could find what I was looking for, which was simple just truth.

I feel that no matter what we think is god, we expect him/her/it to have these two characteristics.

Omniscient - infinite awareness/knowledge
Omnipotent - infinite power

Now, here's the logical argument that originally started it all for me. If god created us with free will, then he cant be omniscient. But for god to be omniscient, implies that we don't have free will.

"Perhaps the future is pre-determined by the character of those who shape it. " - Stargate Atlantis - 'The Seer'

This quote accurately describes how I feel, at least towards the nature of fate, destiny, and free will.

Just as how people fall into patterns in there everyday lives (a majority of us, even I fall victim), this results in a certain predictability. With enough 'numbers to crunch', you can accurately predict how a person will respond to given experiences, how it would affect them, etc - obviously with a margin of error. Its more likely to predict major shifts in events rather then individual events.

So with this, we are granted our full free will, however, our lives depends on us controlling our minds, and not the other way around.

"The mind is a excellent servant, but a cruel master." - Unknown

Emotions such as fear, anxiety, etc are those that influence us, and specifically, how we approach, interact, and react to any given situation. THe difference lies in being able to tell the difference between what is actually happening and what we think is going to happen. To live in the present, not the past or the future. However, we should still draw from the past and look to the future.

Now onto God. I would just like to note that when I first began doing research about the universe and the human consciousness, I read something about both that linked them together. Both the human consciousness and the universe both act in a holographic way, which for lack of a better description means that they are both reflections/images of themselves, in every way and on every level.

The universe itself follows this basic pattern. The universe is made of galaxies, and in turn those galaxies are made up of clusters of stars, and those stars form the core to solar systems. This leaves us with individual planets for life to live on. This life can include things on the microscopic level and on the physical level (such as plants, animals, etc).

From my Buddhist studies, it was made very clear that all life, no matter what, does have a certain degree of awareness. I will argue that awareness is a sign of consciousness. Obviously a plant isn't conscious like we are, but they are capable of reacting to there environment (a plant leaning towards the sun, for example). Animals exhibit fear which shows a higher level of consciousness, and final you have human consciousness, which I guess is awareness of the self.

But what of the very planet that we live on? I will argue that the planet does display signs of consciousness. No matter what life does to a planet, the planet will heal itself and bring itself back to an equilibrium - whether physical life exists or not. The planet requires certain needs to be met, just as we do, just as animals do, just as plants do, and just as organisms do. The solar system itself needs to be positioned in a certain way to attain equilibrium to the system, as does a galaxy (this is not to say that change cant be made, and that the system will not adapt). So we ultimately see how so many larger, more complex systems (like the universe) can be affected by a change in the smallest function of that system (a planet). A classic example of this would be man blowing up the planet.

posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 02:01 PM
This would affect the solar system, which in turn would affect an our of the galaxy. Obviously, one planet can only do so much damage, but depending on its positioning, function, etc it may have an even larger impact on the fluidity of the system.

Based on this logic of how consciousness works, and by re looking at the 'definition of god', I can speculate as too what God is.

God is the spirit/consciousness of the universe.

The universe truly is loving and fair to all, but that doesn't necessarily make it kind. It will act, just as our planet, to fix itself. Even if that means destroying all life.

"You know, my Uncle George – he always hated the phrase "save the planet." Well, he just thought it was a little backwards, you know, ‘cause the planet's gonna be here no matter what happens. It might be a giant unlivable rock but it's gonna survive."

The universe only seeks to expand itself and life. We are only a small portion of the much much larger picture. A water molecule in an ocean.

You've probably also surmised that I hinted towards my belief that we are not the only intelligent species that exists. My simple argument for this is that if it could happen on earth, it could happen on another planet. We make it out to think that only our planet can breed intelligent life. Or that you need water, air, and our atmospheric pressure to breed intelligent life. Perhaps we are just the highest order of life to be created onto a planet, serving a specific purpose, such as a plant, animal, insect, serves there purposes. We are just another part of the system. Which leads us to the age old question on what the purpose of life is - I will not however discuss that now.

Back to God and the universe. It had just struck me that the universe is a reflection of how we should act: adaptable and determined to grow. lol Which lead to the question on the purpose of life, well it will eventually.

Anyways, I've written about all I can formalize in my head, so I will lead you with what I have already wrote. In short I just want to end and say that I believe the concept of a controlling, ruling god is one made up by man (which honestly could of happening from a varying degree of reasons, from intentional to unintentional and by fate and destiny). I just think that we shouldn't look to please or worship one all might, instead we should start looking at whats good for mankind, and our future.

posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 02:35 PM

Originally posted by Halzman
Now, here's the logical argument that originally started it all for me. If god created us with free will, then he cant be omniscient. But for god to be omniscient, implies that we don't have free will.

Here is the flaw in your logic. If we give several loaded guns to a group of gradeschoolers, and tell them the guns are real and loaded and thus they shouldn't pull the trigger but they are alowed to play with the guns, is some child going to get shot?

You should check this out in your searching if your searching is true.
Book of truths, pick a paper.

God can alow for free will of the creatures. If it is God's will we both cross the street, and thus you want to go against God's will so you sit down in the street trying to get run over to make sure you'll never cross, someone will save you and after they have, would you care to venture a guess what side of the street you'll be on?

posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 08:39 PM
Most probably yes, a child is going to get shot. I dont understand what your getting at though.

By giving the child the gun, we are allowing a certain chain of events to possibly happen (ie, a child getting shot). By telling the children that they are real and loaded, even furthers this possibility to happen. And finally, by instructing them not to pull the trigger (which I have to assume we will teach them what the trigger is), we will be opening an avenue for them to operate the gun, which in turn may kill a child. Aside from why you chose this kind of example, the only thing your leading at, to me, is that we influence a situation based on the tools provided, and the use of those tools.

What if we switch the children to grown men, now we have soldiers. These mae however, is far more aware of the real danger a loaded gun can pose. Therefore, when they work with one, they exercise caution (handling procedures, etc). To entertain your example though, I'm sure if you told them to play with there rifles, someone would get shot too. I can see this happening by the playing begins to seem real, and someone accidental squeezes the trigger (perhaps from muscle memory or excitement).

All you've shown is that by not giving proper instructions to the use of a deadly weapon, someone may get shot. That is inherent in the design of the weapon - its designed to kill, efficiently. Everything in the world has a cause-effect nature. Loaded Gun = Death, whether they being used improperly for play, or properly for military operations/exercises. And even with all the precautions, sometimes people get hurt, when they were supposed to. It has nothing to do with gods will. And if it is, I will argue that it was gods will to create and build weapons, at which point I'll ask - just what kind of god are you praying to.

As for your other example, why would I 'go against gods will' and sit in the street. Sure, someone could pull me to the side of the street I was 'supposed to' go to, or I could be dragged back to the corner I started from. Or, I could of been run over by a car and, most likely, killed. If I am saved, it might not even be by the person I was supposed to cross the street with.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by Halzman]

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