Does the illuminati exist?

I believe that there are secret cults and secret societies. I know there are those of you who part-take in them are with them. Does the illuminati exist? That is my question and if so what are their real methods?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I believe that there are secret cults and secret societies. I know there are those of you who part-take in them are with them. Does the illuminati exist? That is my question and if so what are their real methods?

in short, for you, the answer is this.. "no, the Illuminati "do" not exist"

you failed to use the search function, as ATS is FILLED with Illuminati discussion.

you failed to use Google, which will lead you to over 5,830,000 results.

in general, you're lazy and want people to put it on a platter for you.

why don't you do your research and make an educational thread instead of leeching off of other members and making them research for you .

why don't you start here -
www.mindcontrolforums.com...

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[edit on 13-12-2008 by prevenge]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Does Rudolf the red nose reindeer have a red nose?

Google '13 bloodlines of the Illuminati" ... should keep you busy for awhile.

wZn

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I believe that there are secret cults and secret societies. I know there are those of you who part-take in them are with them. Does the illuminati exist? That is my question and if so what are their real methods?

in short, for you, the answer is this.. "yes, the Illuminati "do" exist"

you can use the search function, here at ATS we have plenty of Illuminati discussions.

you can also use Google, which will lead you to over 5,830,000 results.

in general, you are curious and I applaud you and want to discuss with many people here at ATS

This is a great site to place educational threads instead of searching in vain on the web.


you can also start here -
www.mindcontrolforums.com...



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[edit on 13-12-2008 by SLAYER69]

You misunderstand me. I've read on this forum a lot and I think it's BS. I don't think a single group has that much power on world events. I think multiple groups do... I think there is a lot of disinfo about the illuminati and their conspiracy. As I've read no evidence seems to suggest that they exist... so please enlighten me. Obviously much ATS discussion would be biased in that they believe that the illuminati exists in the way people say it does... so please before I go into those threads please, I would like some proof that this organization exists and is that powerful.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
You misunderstand me. I've read on this forum a lot and I think it's BS. I don't think a single group has that much power on world events. I think multiple groups do... I think there is a lot of disinfo about the illuminati and their conspiracy. As I've read no evidence seems to suggest that they exist... so please enlighten me. Obviously much ATS discussion would be biased in that they believe that the illuminati exists in the way people say it does... so please before I go into those threads please, I would like some proof that this organization exists and is that powerful.

so you think it's more probable that in this day and age when private secret research could have actually discovered the ultimate truths of existence, or passed hat knowledge down through the ages, and kept it secret from the many,
you think that many different powerful sources control events on earth, and refuse to blend their assets and power together to further their goals, but instead, decide to, decade after decade, to keep on bumping heads with one another, risking their efforts being exposed..

you think that's more probable, than the top teirs of world leadership, actually combining efforts to fully focus their progress to a more efficient method of living?

you think that the less efficient method of keeping leadership divided, even though they have the brightest scientific minds at their aide, that they'd choose to stay fractured and chaotic, rather than in a common interest and order.

and even if they didn't decide the most intelligent method of mutual benefit and order, you think that someone somewhere amongst their leadership ranks, wouldn't have FORCED that order and union between them all?? I'll tell you personally. if I had that type of knowledge, and that type of power.. I would have wanted things to be as orderly and efficient as possible. and as little amount of divergent attitudes towards the specific direction humanity should take as possible,

as if so many many different leaderships around the globe are just dancing around bumping heads chasing out their fortunes aimlessly without any centered common goal...
that's your conclusion.. ??

as opposed to a structured order that has one specific goal.

the most intelligent and wealthy people on the planet just wandering forward watching economic meltdowns happen on accident.. wars happening on accident.. woops it's so out of control and random and well we just gotta do what we gotta do to deal with these issues..etc.. riiiight?



nice attempt at reverse logic.


I don't think it's logic that holds you back from accepting the truth of their continued existence.
I think it's fear of the icky ostrasization feeling you'd get if you tried to talk about this with normal everyday friends and family, that makes you not accept it.
because to accept it.. creates a spiral of understanding of your entire world being flipped upside down.. your entire understanding of history.. of world events..for completely specific intended reasons.. rahter than oops look what happened.. weird things just "happen"..
even your outlook on weather events would change.

and that's too much for some people to handle.

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[edit on 13-12-2008 by prevenge]

reply to post by prevenge


I'm undecided as to whether all of this caused because they wanted it to be this way or because our leadership is incompetent. I don't see how any organized group could screw the world up this badly.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by prevenge

 

I'm undecided as to whether all of this caused because they wanted it to be this way or because our leadership is incompetent. I don't see how any organized group could screw the world up this badly.

you actually fall for the idea that "leadership is allowed to be incompetent".

that within it's self limits your understanding of anything else pertaining to this all.

the brain has to fool the foot into stepping in a bear trap.
this way the brain can fool the hand into having no choice but to cut off the foot.
little does the hand know, that the brain has the knowledge and plans, of growing a new and better foot.

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reply to post by Frankidealist35


The illuminati existed as a club in the mid 1700's. The term Illuminati means the enlighetened one's. Secret societies existed and still exist currently but picture a scenario at work- how many people "join forces" in business to acheive a purpose?

reply to post by prevenge


I don't see it in the same way you do. I think there are people out there that want to run the world into the ground and to rule it afterwords and there are good people that think the world can be fixed. Like for example, I think Obama is a good person who has honorable beliefs (as we can judge by his writing in his books) but I think there are other people who may think they have good intentions but they are causing more harm to the world than good. Don't you think these people may not be aware of what they are doing and they may think they're doing something good but in reality they're not and they don't know it?

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
reply to post by prevenge

 

I don't see it in the same way you do. I think there are people out there that want to run the world into the ground and to rule it afterwords and there are good people that think the world can be fixed. Like for example, I think Obama is a good person who has honorable beliefs (as we can judge by his writing in his books) but I think there are other people who may think they have good intentions but they are causing more harm to the world than good. Don't you think these people may not be aware of what they are doing and they may think they're doing something good but in reality they're not and they don't know it?

no.
I think the time for that sort of aloofness and undecided incongruent misalignment in global directives is by far over, done away with beginning in 1776, and definatley in done with by 1963.
The people in power are selectively groomed and positioned for leadership in a concerted direction.
I don't think people want to "run the world into the ground"..
I think that specific methods are being used to achieve specific goals.
Either directly enacting methods.. or by creating specific circumstances that cause specificreactions in order to seemingly reactively enact specific methods that lead to these goals.

If you think of them as "running the world into the ground" ...
consider the possible angle that there is a coming catastrophe, and backup infrastructure upon backup infrastructure has been created to ensure survival of a ruling elite, and this "running the world into the ground" is merely knowledge of that catastrophe, and milking specific assets for all their worth in the most efficient means possible, is what you see happening as "ruining".
Whereas the catastrophe will essentially cleanse and "reset" whatever "damage" has been done ecologically.

The re-emergence of mankind in it's advanced state (with suppressed technology, true spiritual science and social structure)
Will enter a time of creation.. or "re-creation".. re-populating the planet and all of it's life.

It seems to me like you've just nonchalantly "skimmed" over the information on all of this and stuck to your guns with what you"believe" with nary a second glance at the supporting evidence for this layout of reality, thereby not really contemplating or learning the actual deep actuality and reasoning behind all of this.


I'd read up on Praxis Intervention and Phronesis.

en.wikipedia.org...
Praxis Intervention is a kind of Participatory Action Research, with a difference. Participatory Action Research and its kinds emphasize on the collective modification of the external world.


en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Phronetic social scientists study social phenomena with a focus on values and power. Researchers ask and answer the following four value-rational questions for specific instances of social action:

1. Where are we going?
2. Is this development desirable?
3. Who gains and who loses, and by which mechanisms of power?
4. What, if anything, should we do about it?



also
The Master-slave Dialectic
en.wikipedia.org...

Hagel's Phenomenology of Spirit
en.wikipedia.org...
Science of Logic
en.wikipedia.org...


before "suspecting" global conspiracy or globally centered leadership..

understand the highest research into the nature of consciousness, humanity's hierarchical social structure, and the fact that people with all the money in the world actually have a plan for humanity based on this research and it's resultant conclusive truths...

Learn about these ideas that the highest minds of philosophy, spiritual and social sciences have brought us from centuries of hard work..

and understand that somewhere.. a group of people with more money than you could imagine.. and access to technology that would make your jaw drop ten floors down..
Understand these ideas, and are going to intervene and institute establishments that lead us closer to achieving a higher, more desireable reality.

after you understand that these ideas are the basis for the direction the "world" (ie: mankind ie: consciousness) is taking...

then fiddle around with actual official documents backing up the plans.
But those fall short of any real weight.. compared to the philosophy and reason behind them... which would be desirable to understand before freaking out over what's in store for us.

It's better to understand the "WHY" before the "HOW" and "WHEN" because the how and when are going to happen no matter what.
It's just preferable that during the when and how, you can process them through the filter of syntax that is the WHY...
instead of being a dumbfounded dipchit like the rest of the 99% of the world and freak out and point accusatory fingers while running for your life.

a "great happiness" can't be "great" if it has nothing to compare itse;f to .. such as a "great UNhappiness".

and knowing thy neighbor, in the future, is going to be a lot more than looking at them as a separate consciousness, seeing them as the "other". This produces inevitable conflict, and at one time or another.. one dominating the other however subtly or radically... leading to one or the other's unhappiness.

souls will be interconnected as one, and conflict replaced with unity.


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[edit on 14-12-2008 by prevenge]

The more and more I read about the illuminati and their supposed control, the more I believe it's a scapegoat somebody created.

Everybody above me is a member of the Illuminati! The fellow who gott a promotion over me is in the Illuminati!

It seems like everyone who's everyone these days are either Illuminati... or the Anti-Christ, or if they're women they also get the benefit of bong from Babylon.

It's a great way of blaming the problems of the world on someone else, and removing all effort from yourself.
or, even better, making yourself into something.
You fight the Illuminati! Never really get anywhere, of course.

reply to post by prevenge


I find that people like yourself gravitate to web based boards as their form of free psychotherapeutic meds. A place to catharticly sweep out their damaged id at the expense of other members that are merely asking polite questions to their fellow board members. In Psychology we call the this "frozen child" syndrome. Someone who is constantly threatened by any presence other than their own in the sandbox. A angry out burst in an infantile gesture of pre-adolescent alpha male-ness rather than act like a respectful "knowledgeable" adult about a query, even a mis-informed poorly thought out question. The knowledgeable well adjusted individual would help a confused or unknowledgeable individual with even handed comments and helpful thought patterns rather than shalaque them with obvious "fear of inadequacy" driven rants that tear them down in order to erect your broken self as superior. Now I know that intellectual giant like yourself will come back at me with the classic "Well at least I don't have to post anonymously!!!" well, you showed me!!! I just found the site, and intend on making an account, but I know that it is highly unfair that I left you without a name to tag onto more angry young man misplaced aggression. You need to know that YOU are YOUR problem, not the previous poster, or the guys at school that mock you, or your father who does not understand your middle American average boy angry rap listening demeanor or the masses that will rue the day when you become the next big star. It's you, you are a posting game of show and tell. You are showing us all nothing and telling us everything.
So in short...whomever you are. You can flame individuals on boards all you want but it doesn't add 1 inch to your stature. I guarantee when you log off the web if you go into the bathroom and look in the mirror you are the same flawed mix of protein based DNA combinants as the rest of us, and all the slip knot CD's and Def Comedy jam DvD's in the world won't change that. Learn to interact with other beings and be open to conversation, it makes you seem stable. and in closing be good to your self and each other...*gags*

"Illuminati effect" could be there even if there is no real group under that name.
"illuminati effect" could be unintended consequence of the survival designs and strategic planings of power eliets.
Where there are untra previledged super rich, where there are huge corporations, where there are huge military-industry complexes, where there are huge financial institutions, where there are secrecies in running institutions, where knowledge and technology can be concentrated in few hands, where there is no transperancy, where there is huge inequality..... "illuminati effect" is possible. "illuiminati effect" is simply a socialogical possibility under the conditions of secrecy and power concentrations.

the illuminati doesnt exist.
if they did you wouldnt know to question their existance.
apart from a few 'boys clubs' (for some reason most of these 'boys clubs' have mission statements that read like my local football clubs community goals) its largely a 'free for all' on a global scale. to the dollar goes the 'goods'.
people need some excitement in their lives and for some this is it.
my intrest in these societies is through research into spies like philby, angleton and rothschild.

3 people can keep a secret...
if the secret is about the first person and the other 2 are already dead.

reply to post by RuneSpider

"Illuminati effect" can very well be there irrespective of a any real cult in that name existing.
"Illuminati Effect" is possible if the following conditions are met:
1. existence of huge inequality.
2. The super-rich having privileged access to exclusive knowledge
3. Media is under control of few super-rich.
4. possibility of the underprivileged questioning the fairness of inequality
5. The super-rich desiring to maintain their position as extra privileged.
6. The super-rich or their representatives penetrating into the academics, politics, intelligence agencies, financial systems, military... etc.
7. Existence of secrecy at the top levels of Governments, corporations etc.
8. Super rich emerging global and having their representatives and lobbyists everywhere.
.... all these or some of these if exists, there can be 'illuminati effect"
Illuminati effect can be "unintended consequences" of power elites maintaining their positions.
Wherever there is aggression by the privileged against the under-privileged there is the illuminate effect.
Illuminati effect is everywhere-it is there in all conspiracies, all high level assassinations, all wars and also in all attempts of domination, colonizations and strategic planning of big corporations.
The illuminati effect is quite evident in the present Israeli aggression against the palestinians.