Why is evolution the counter to Jesus?

reply to post by OldThinker


Sometimes, OT, I have mistaken your "OT" to mean old testament before I knew that OT was a reference to yourself.

Offering a little assistance to the misunderstanding?

reply to post by L.I.B.



OK.....

Thank you for helping!!!

oldthinker.....

reply to post by OldThinker


You're welcome.

My first clue was I would be reading along and boom, see OT... I'd think what?

Just didn't fit with what was being said. Then I'd see you sign off as OT and the light bulb went off. Nah, not slow much.

Originally posted by nj2day

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
I am not a member of any faith but thanks for the assumption that I should leave my beliefs in church.

Tell me then why I shouldn't believe in an ultimate divine source, you obviously know why I'd like to know your point of view, calling it a fairy tale is just as useful as me telling you that god exists because the bible says so, which I wouldn't dream of doing.

Oh I didn't say you shouldn't believe... Its obviously working for you...

Your faith doesn't belong in government buildings, schools, legislation, public property, or any of the like...

Keep your morality to yourself and quit trying to force it on me... either subtly or overtly.

I call it a fairy tale because there is no more reason to believe in a god than there is to believe in unicorns or dragons...

nj2day....

Let's take the stance about keeping "your morality to yourself" and multiply that....and watch the application of "to each his own" on a society as a whole...

Not a pretty world I'd say....

Doesn't the, for lack of a better phrase, the '10 commandments' bring order in many cases to a fabric of our world...certainly there are exceptions...but as a rule don't they place boundaries on behavior on a large scale...that benefits all?

Thanks man...

OT

reply to post by nj2day


Im a 'she'...*smiles*...just FYI in future conversations...I grew up thinking my birth sign was a Virgo...when really I found out the sun rose in Leo on my b-day. So...Im a Leo Virgo...goes to show how impacted thoughts still stick but be open to new ones as well.

Waiting on that thread from OT...would love to discuss the beginning of Genesis.

About this secret forum...do you have to have these points to start a thread and post or just to start one?

LV

reply to post by OldThinker



Hello OT,

If I may...just some thoughts.

The commandments do provide a moral order of living....but should we give credence to the god of the Old Testament for these, I mean, it is obvious that other cultures did establish most of these same set of rules trying to organize some basic morals and values for man to follow, seeing it was necessary. But do we give the credit to the god of the OT?

This is where I struggle with it....I sit on the fence with 'god' and the Biblical versions of Thee's characteristics. Alot of human characteristics are placed on this god....

So I guess it is a question of if one see's the OT as a book directly written to interpret god to mankind. How is one for sure that these laws were not a more perfecting of previous laws that cultures were adapting to, trying to become a more civilized and structured culture?

Just thoughts always,
LV

Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Hello OT,

If I may...just some thoughts.

The commandments do provide a moral order of living....but should we give credence to the god of the Old Testament for these, I mean, it is obvious that other cultures did establish most of these same set of rules trying to organize some basic morals and values for man to follow, seeing it was necessary. But do we give the credit to the god of the OT?

This is where I struggle with it....I sit on the fence with 'god' and the Biblical versions of Thee's characteristics. Alot of human characteristics are placed on this god....

So I guess it is a question of if one see's the OT as a book directly written to interpret god to mankind. How is one for sure that these laws were not a more perfecting of previous laws that cultures were adapting to, trying to become a more civilized and structured culture?

Just thoughts always,
LV

Thank you...

Good questions...I don't want to go off topic per'se on the reliability of the Old Testament scriptures or was there another (pre) source to copy from...my point to nj was/is....now we have them and let's not get rid of them...because the effect from them is good for society...

A quick point though...the old Testament is not 'conclusive' in my eyes...there were holes...for example the playing field was uneven....could even be constued as 'racist'....I admit that.......with pro-Israel and con-everyone else....BUT....here's the rationale or 'ok-ness' of that for a time...

It was, in my humble opinion, a prep time to bring about a geneology, to bring about a savior, for ALL MANKIND....thus no more 'racism' uneven-ness, etc


It's kinda like....got to experience pain...as a lesson learner...for a better life/future...I'm rambling I know, sorry...

Thoughts?

OT

reply to post by OldThinker


Point well taken...why throw out a good thing, I agree.

It does get a bit messy though, when we admit there are holes...because then this leaves a open door for the possibility that 'we dont need a savior, but a guide, a teacher to put us back on track'....if this wasn't the Most High demanding a special land ect...then what if the idea of a blood sacrifice is not needed also.

I would love for you to start a thread on taking a closer look at Genesis....

Mabey we can discuss these ideas further in depth so we dont intrude here too much? Let me know if you get one going...Ive thought about starting one to discuss the differences in manifestations and creation...was it something out of something or something out of nothings kinda thing...

Best intentions,
LV

reply to post by OldThinker


It really wouldn't be as chaotic as you would think...

are people who behave themselves just because the ten commandments tell them to good people? Or are the good for the wrong reasons? But thats a different conversation

I was speaking more of gay rights and abortion type issues... Why are there laws regarding what I do in my own bedroom with my own (consenting) wife in some states?

Did you know in some states, it is illegal to sell certain items on Sundays? When I was in Oklahoma, it was illegal to even have a business open, unless that business sold certain goods (mostly nessesary items).

That is legislating morality and dogma...

Also when I was in Oklahoma, its still in the law books that blasphemy is a crime. So is speaking ill of god and jesus, unless it is in the context of intellectual debate...

Your also not allowed to protest any religion within an obscenely huge area surrounding any religious facility...

Why does the U.S. Military open all official functions with a prayer from a chaplain? (spent 6 years in the service). Why do a few states still use a bible to swear in witnesses in courts?

This is the type of unwelcome infringement I am speaking of...

Originally posted by OldThinker
I guess I'm struggling with what particularly you are asking of me, would you be open to try again?

Thanks

OT

Pretty much what you said in that post there. I was asking what you meant by balanced believer. You proposed the idea of a day in the creation story being different than another day in the bible so I was asking what you meant by balanced believer. That is all. I was assuming from the way you put it that it meant to pick and choose so I was asking. Maybe in not the best way but I was just asking what a balanced believer was. That is all. I was not looking to start anything, argue about anything, get into anything about anything. Just asking. You kinda answered it in this last post to me.