Why is evolution the counter to Jesus?

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by nj2day
But, Christians ignore most of the OT anyway... I mean who can blame them...

According to the OT, Dragons and unicorns exist... and God is powerless against iron...

Well I sure managed to hit the jackpot when it comes to "Christians" that want to acknowledge part of the OT. I do not understand the picking and choosing at all. Either the bible is the word of God or not, right? I think it would be nice if I could find a Christian here that believes every word literally but is also not an ass about everything.

OT might meet that requirement?

I'm one of those 'verbal, plenary, inspiration scripture-dudes...in the original texts...

And have'nt been called an 'ass' in atleast a month...by the bride.

Do I measure up ?

reply to post by L.I.B.


you gots time Its only 5k points... (seems like a lot, but a decent thread will net you 5k easy...)

OT is a busy guy... so it'll take him a while to put it together...

If not, I'm sure you can U2U him, and he'll reconsider...

but honestly... in the "super secret" forum, there are fewer pricks who just drive by insult..

reply to post by OldThinker


nah, you aren't a "literalist" OT...

You're more of a figurative interperiter, believe it or not

You definitely aren't an arse! no matter what the wife says about you

Originally posted by OldThinker
Do I measure up ?

Apparently it is the rest of us who do not.

reply to post by nj2day


I didn't even know about the super secret forum until just a few moments ago. So, it takes 5000 points to start a thread there?

As for time? Gosh, I have two different family get togethers held here within the next 7 days.

I think I prefer the idea about asking OT to invite me also, except... isn't that bad form? Me too! ME too?! lol




[edit on 15-12-2008 by L.I.B.]

This will show u everything u need to know.. ITs like 1hour and 30 mins but it will show u proof of God. Let me know ur thoughts...

Zeitgiest Refuted


P.S. It also completely disproves Zeitgiests approach to disproving God...

reply to post by L.I.B.


Nah LOL its only 5000 points for access to the forum...

after that, its something like 500 points a month to renew...

the 5000 is only a 1 time thing... so its not that tough...

The forum isn't all that interesting... the biggest draw is the fact that most trolls don't post there. Much easier to get a productive conversation going.

Originally posted by furiousracer313
This will show u everything u need to know.. ITs like 1hour and 30 mins but it will show u proof of God. Let me know ur thoughts...

Zeitgiest Refuted


P.S. It also completely disproves Zeitgiests approach to disproving God...

I am pretty sure that I already read a thread completely disputing this film here. Anyone know of it? I will take a look at this but probably not until next weekend. Thanks for posting it.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by furiousracer313
This will show u everything u need to know.. ITs like 1hour and 30 mins but it will show u proof of God. Let me know ur thoughts...

Zeitgiest Refuted


P.S. It also completely disproves Zeitgiests approach to disproving God...

I am pretty sure that I already read a thread completely disputing this film here. Anyone know of it? I will take a look at this but probably not until next weekend. Thanks for posting it.

Yeah everyone should check it out.. Or atleast watch half of it to see if u like it.. And i dont think me or anyone else ever posted this to my knowledge. But who knows...

reply to post by nj2day


Thank you for that information, n2jay.

Hmmm... let's see, I joined in September and now only have a little over 330 points. Doesn't look like I'll ever be able to afford the peace that that forum seems to offer, lol. So, it goes!

reply to post by furiousracer313


most people worth their weight in salt know the weaknesses in the Zeitgeist film...

I'm fascinated with propaganda, and can point out which points are more to further an agenda, and which points are more or less objective (i've researched).

I already know the video is entirely based on furthering an agenda... and know it will be laden with ill-researched propaganda... therefore, I'll respectfully obstain, and instead stick with the thread at hand: Why do christians feel evolution can not co-exist with christianity... and why instead of arguing the merits of their point of view, seek to discredit other point of views.

Originally posted by nj2day
and why instead of arguing the merits of their point of view, seek to discredit other point of views.

Just thought that bared repeating.

I must admit, I have not read every single post to this question, but hope to remain on the original topic nonetheless.

First off, I am Christian. But one who struggled with the idea of a blind faith for many years. God was way too hard a concept to grasp, but simply ignoring the obvious of some sort of "Supreme Deity/Force/Energy, etc." just seemed too illogical as well. I say obvious because there is too many "whys" out there that given our current state of humanity we can not answer without acknowledging some sort of Higher Power. So for a long time I was an Agnostic, "I'll believe it when I see it".

First off, as far as evolution. I believe there is truth in some form of evolution, but not how Darwin presented it. To say my ancestors are an ape, just seems too outlandish. I mean, if this would be true, why are there still apes? Why did that branch of the family tree not evolve as well? I do believe that all species have evolved in some way, shape, or fashion. And who can ignore the ever so elusive, missing link. So as much as Darwinian evolution makes so much sense to some, its also relies heavily on some form of faith for others.

Second, I will also to speak on God. As I said before, I am a Christian. The only proof of this I can offer, lies in the approach I took to establish a firm belief in Jesus Christ. My biggest struggle with Christianity, was the various interpretations with the Bible. With so many differences, how can they all be true? A former pastor talked with me in some length about this, and posed this question, "What have you done to determine which one seems to be accurate?" He was right, it was easier for me to dismiss all of them, rather than approach my problem the way science attempts to solve problems. All too often, a scientist will devote a lifetime to prove his theory. In the end, he may still have only a theory, but his work and effort alone is enough for him to personally believe it is true, if only to him; ie. faith from work. Work that has become personal (a good example is Einstein), just as my relationship with Jesus has become personal through my effort in studying the different texts of the Bible. In the end, I found an interpretation that made sense, that fit me, that I understood. Which is what Christianity is all about, a personal relationship with our Lord and Saviour. I will never agrue doctrine, translations, or the like, cause in the end my best proof about why I believe in God, is to explain, that I just have a feeling that is so profound, so hard to explain in words, that shakes me down to my bones when I feel it, and that is proof enough for me.

Lee Strobel was an atheistic lawyer/reporter for the NY Times that set out to disprove the idea of a God. In the end, he stated there is more proof for God, than against.
The scientists who developed the big bang theory had initially set out to disprove God. They did offer up the most accepted theory of how it all began. But, several years later, upon attempting to expand this theory, stated that the big bang happened with such precision, that it was impossible to ignore the idea of a Supreme Being. If the bang had happened a fraction of a second sooner, or a fraction later, it would not have happened at all. Hence Creationism was born.

So in the end, I offer this, what effort have you made to see for yourself?

Originally posted by nj2day
...Why do christians feel evolution can not co-exist with christianity... and why instead of arguing the merits of their point of view, seek to discredit other point of views.

nj,

Bro, it would appear that way...

Atleast on ATS...pls remember, this is a big world....

Bunch of us BB's out here..

balanced believers, that is..

My best friend, the Lord Jesus...knew...knows...how 'to be a friend of sinners' the new testament says...

If OT has a say...we are about allowing all to air their opinions without judgement...


Ever notice how tolerant and patient He was in the NT?

THE example for all..skeptic or not to follow!

OT
Phil 1:3

Originally posted by OldThinker
Bunch of us BB's out here..

balanced believers, that is..

Is that a euphemism for people who pick and choose which parts of the bible they would like to believe?

this should be why is jeases the new god

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo

Originally posted by OldThinker
Bunch of us BB's out here..

balanced believers, that is..

Is that a euphemism for people who pick and choose which parts of the bible they would like to believe?

euphemism?

?????????

Help OT out here?

What is your point?

I need more than a 'freakin' blurb...write man, write!

I thought my response was thoroughly stated...I don't 'pick and choose '...do u think I do...or have evidence for such?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS




Nice post Anon...

I welcome you to register on ATS...

Well thought through posts are a good thing!

first i have to say that i particularly hate people who say that evolution is all there is. Its not. its a good portion but doesnt complete the equation. "Maybe evolution is the answer to how and not why." Proof of gods existence is all around you. You thinking right now having thoughts are proof enough. conciousness doesnt grow from dirt. a rock wont just randomly start thinking. i cant exactly prove god exist but i have a good feeling he/she/it does just in a different dimension made of brain waves and Keep an open mind atheist. and dont completely debunk god

This thread has gotten derailed a little bit into personal conversations it seems.

I don't like using "the book" as a way to discuss the existence or not of god, but I would like to point out that the old testament actually states that the flow of time was different before the flood, it also states there is a difference between the flow of time on earth and the flow of time in heaven, though I don't recall the exact conversion rate sorry, however you are certainly not supposed to take the "days" of creation as 24 hour periods.

Also according to jewish tradition Adam was born a hermaphrodite, Eve wasn't the first female, she was the first Woman, they where supposedly two females before her, one became Lilith who had once been the other half of Adam, and one was a nameless being who was literally created in front of Adam and as he saw her creation from scratch (inc internal organs, sinews etc) was scared of her and would not be with her, only then was Eve created. True this isn't obvious from reading the old testament but as has been stated in this thread the jewish faith has been around a lot longer than the written Torah.

Anyway I just thought I'd throw that out there.


[edit on 15-12-2008 by gYvMessanger]