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Why is evolution the counter to Jesus?

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posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


I completely respect your faith. And if you are a good Christian who lives as Jesus would want, then even better. I am just curious though, if there is no way we can ever prove God in any way shape or form, then what drives so many to swear he exsists?




posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


Well, to be quiet honest, I believe it's something you have to experience for yourself. I got into a car accident yesterday and smashed my car real bad. For several reasons, there was proof in that accident to me that God exists.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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Originally posted by For(Home)Country
reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


Well, to be quiet honest, I believe it's something you have to experience for yourself. I got into a car accident yesterday and smashed my car real bad. For several reasons, there was proof in that accident to me that God exists.


Let me be perfectly honest with you. Ha, my perfect beats your quite! Anyway, your story is totally off topic because something you and you alone experienced and felt is about as far from scientific as we can get. That is the title of the thread right?

....But, I completely get where you are coming from and respect your feelings and experience. It may not apply scientifically but I can respect your personal explanation for you.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by For(Home)Country
 


You seem to be much more mature about this than most believers...

However, Science and religion will not get along ever, without some sweeping dogmatic changes in religious doctrines.

Religion has always been a way for primitive man to explain their surroundings... there was a time when there was no other explanation to be had...

slowly over time, science has explained what religion used to explain...

Even you giving god credit for causing the membranes to collide... you are furthering this "Tradition".

Science will continue to explain the universe... Its bound to keep going... The more we explain, less is left unexplained... slowly taking away turf from "god".

If Religion could get out of the science business... and stop trying to explain things... or at least change over time, as things are explained away... than religion and science could get along just find...

Eventually science will explain everything that religion tries to explain... when that happens, the only religion that can co-exist with science will be Deism.

But Diests don't believe in a supernatural god... instead, they re-define the word god.

catch my drift?



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by nj2day
Easy... Give me a scientific hypothesis, that is testable and falsifiable... thats all you have to do...

Then we'll take the job of testing and experimenting objectively...

Just give us the Testable scientific hypothesis... and we'll show you the scientific method...

or do you mean to say that in over 4000 years (have to take it back to the old testament remember) that there is not one shred of evidence? god walked the earth a few times... he talked to people, his angels screwed humans... all this happened... and we can't so much as turn up a single piece of evidence?


I'll tell you what, when you can do that to consciousness - then you will have your answer.

Do you believe consciousness exists? Prove it in the same manner. If you can do it, then you can probably win a nobel prize. Science doesn't even have a true definition for it, and it varies from person to person.

In 4000 years - what would qualify to you as being good evidence for it? Or will you skip the question again?



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


Well now someone is LYING aren't we?

You asked for SCIENTIFIC PROOF GOD EXISTS...

You were NOT NICE nor SEEKING and you still have an AGENDA!

I told you then I will tell you now, There is NO SCIENTIFIC WAY TO PROVE GOD, NOR EVOLUTION, NOR ALIENS...

Sorry f this answer bothers you, but nonetheless it is true...

Now for this thread question... The reason evolution and Jesus can't coexist as it would do away with the Bible, for you see the Bible says that MAN BROUGHT DEATH INTO THE WORLD WITH SIN...

Evolution teaches DEATH BROUGHT MAN INTO THE WORLD...

See the conflict? Or shall I draw a picture?



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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Honestly, I hope proof doesn't appear physically so that you and others can believe in God, because that isn't the point. We have people who are working to understand God within themselves and you want a handout when you haven't done any work. Physical proof and then you will work, right? What a joke. Either start your journey, or quit and leave it be (to be honest, everyone is progressing on a journey whether they realize it or not). Everyone has to find answers to their satisfaction, if religious people are satisfied with their answers, fine, if atheists are satisfied with theirs, fine. But the answers you get are what you keep when the curtain closes and you are responsible for yourself, so stop depending on others to do your own work.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by nj2day
However, Science and religion will not get along ever, without some sweeping dogmatic changes in religious doctrines.


More accurate is that people who focus only on science, and those who focus only on religion can never get along.

Science is the realm of action and reacton.

Philosophy is about reason and understanding.

2 different levels, 2 different purposes.

Religion is honestly just philosophy that the leaders have symbolized and pushed into a literal format. Or stories that show the philosophy/people who lived by the philosophy. If you are able to look beyond the literal meanings and see the philosophy then you see truth in what it says.

And neither science or philosophy/religion individually is to blame, it's people who's level of thinking is so low they can't include both that fight with each other. All the while, you can't live without science, even making a fire or building a house is science, and everything you do is based on a philosophy/belief system you have - so it's just a bunch of blind ignorance overall.






[edit on 13-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by angel of lightangelo
 


Ha, good one! I guess you did beat me. But yes, you're right, my story would be irrelevant, but enough of that. Like I said, it's something you must experience. I guess it's kind of like a paradox, or a circle. People say they want proof before they believe, but yet the bible tells us we need rely on faith without proof to believe, but that doesn't apply to you if you don't believe in the bible. I hope that makes sense. I remember reading somewheres about physical proof from events in the bible, like they found chariot's wheels at the bottom of the (red?) sea, where Moses parted the water so the jews could escape. I also recall reading somewheres that they found the rock that spewed out water in the middle of an arid region. Please forgive my informality on these matters. But I believe there is solid proof for events recorded in the bible, however, of God himself? I don't think so. But what about miracles? A relative of mine was cured of cancer multiple times. Of course he had treatment, but it was serious cancer, but he is doing great now. How about when people get raised from the dead? These stories get told in church when missionaries come back, are they lying? I wasn't there, but I believe regardless.

reply to post by nj2day
 


I see what you are getting at. I know it is very un scientific to replace an unknown answer with "God" so I can see where the frustration originates. Oh, and thanks for the complement. I'm not sure if it's a good thing sometimes. I believe God gave us free choice, so thats why people believe other things. In church, we're taught to plant seeds, and let God do the growing, in other words, tell others about God, and then let him do the work. It's my job to love everyone equally. That's why we're hear, but it's really not hard to pick out people here on ATS that have been hurt by other Christians who weren't so loving. It's rather unfortunate the image that Christianity has obtained in this world, and I wish change. However, I can only do my part by being what I believe God asks me to. God loves us, not our sin, in the same way, others (including myself) do wrong, and I don't have to accept and join in with the bad stuff, but you love the person unconditionally. I take physics and Chemistry and I find them absolutely fascinating. It's in these subjects that I discover how perfectly our world is crafted, and it makes it harder for me to not believe. But that's just the effect it has on me.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I think your argument is ridiculous when taking ALL of Scientific History into account. Every Great Scientist in history was a CREATIONIST. Shall we go through them, or just a few?

Einstein -Creationist
Galileo - Creationist
Newton - Big Bible Believer Creationist
Pasteur - Creationist

Is that enough? Would you like the more than 1/3 of today's scientists that are Creationists too?

The most amazing thing about these threads is the people just make their own posts up as they go, they ignore History, Archeology, Science and Truth....

But hey it's your posts HAVE AT IT, but always remember what the wise man said "It is better to be quiet and let people think your an idiot than open your mouth and prove them correct".



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:32 PM
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Now this is a good Article about the "faiths" of evolution & intelligent design... very enlightening.

www.harekrsna.com...

Where Are All the Half-Evolved Dinosaurs?

Science cannot prove we're here by creation, but neither can science prove we're here by chance or macro-evolution. No one has observed either. They are both accepted on faith.

Evolutionists claim that the genetic and biological similarities between species is evidence of common ancestry. However, that is only one interpretation of the evidence. Another possibility is that the comparative similarities are due to a common Designer who designed similar functions for similar purposes in all the various forms of life. Neither position can be scientifically proved.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


I can prove evolution based on your criteria...

Ford cars all have 4 tires, chevy cars all have 4 tires, Dodge trucks all have 4 tires and polaris recreational vehicles all have 4 wheels...

This proves that they all evolved over millions of years from a skateboard (4 wheels just simpler).

Or they all had a common designer



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
I think your argument is ridiculous when taking ALL of Scientific History into account. Every Great Scientist in history was a CREATIONIST. Shall we go through them, or just a few?

Einstein -Creationist
Galileo - Creationist
Newton - Big Bible Believer Creationist
Pasteur - Creationist

Is that enough? Would you like the more than 1/3 of today's scientists that are Creationists too?


If you would like, I can give you detailed reasoning behind my reasons for evolution. As I am a programmer, I understand and see programming variables when I see them(DNA CODE).

Ever heard of the book of life? A library of all living things. Basically a library of what every DNA code will bring into the universe. The DNA is basically just a config file held within the biology(advanced nanotechnology). Scientists are basically just trying to reverse engineer this technology with genetics programs. Cataloging what the different things do.

I do these same things in my programming. It's built in the same way. My program evolve over time. I keep libraries, config files that allow the same program to work and appear many different ways. Just look at your PC Desktop, all those different looks across everyones PC, all done with a config file on the same coding.

It doesn't happen randomly - which is where I disagree with most evolutionists. Thus why we see so much shared DNA code in creatures on earth - because we are configured in the same way in many places. Even as different as our desktops might look, the majority of our config files look alike.

If you create a monkey 1 day, you are going to use alot of the same code to create a human. Thus, it evolves. I can go into more detail if you want, but I will be going into aspects of how programming works, so it's not usually for everyone.



The most amazing thing about these threads is the people just make their own posts up as they go, they ignore History, Archeology, Science and Truth....

But hey it's your posts HAVE AT IT, but always remember what the wise man said "It is better to be quiet and let people think your an idiot than open your mouth and prove them correct".


Even the bible says every man will think he is right. If we thought we were wrong, we'd change our opinion.

And no wise man ever said that. More like something someone tell the ignorant as a way of keeping them ignorant. Or a witty comeback as an attack on someone personally. The wise man would tell you to ask questions no matter how stupid they are, and to test your beliefs so that you can make sure it is true. As to ask questions is to seek, which is required for finding. I'm pretty sure Jesus said when people are discussing him, then he will be among them.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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" Why is evolution the counter to Jesus?

It's not.

In order for evolution to be true, it would have to be an ongoing thing, which it is not. No one has ever looked out their window and seen evidence for evolution, ever.

The main problem you and many others who believe like you is, that you never ever got a chapter by chapter and verse by verse teaching of the Bible, and what you know of its' contents is mostly wrong, as is most of what you know about Christianity.

I do understand why many people don't understand, because if I had to rely on most of what I've seen on television [ the easiest available to see ] I wouldn't believe most of them either! They're not teaching, they are preaching. And you can't preach to people who were never properly taught, because you'll end up with a huge group of unbelievers!

Comparing a group of deceived people and comparing them against what little you know of the Bible and what you were taught about evolution and you'll get the wrong answer every time. The same goes for math equations, put garbage in and get garbage out.

First off, the world is millions of years old, but this earth age is only about 6,000 years old. The world was created in about 6,000 years, because the days that are referenced in the Bible are a thousand years for each. You cannot know that unless you are taught chapter by chapter and verse by verse or study with a concordance. [ Please don't quote me some preacher who misquoted the Bible as proof, read it for yourself with a concordance and with understanding ]

We were created as spiritual beings , God destroyed the world of the 1st earth age after the war with Satan. He made us flesh beings to test us, to test who will we follow, Gods laws or Satans/mans laws. And a few thousand years ago God flooded the earth to destroy the giants because they were put here by satan to destroy the bloodline that Christ was to come through, so we are now in the 2nd earth age and the 3rd and final earth age is quickly approaching.

I'll bet you never had anyone tell you all that before.

If you really want an understanding, you'll have to look up each word in a concordance from the ones in a King James bible in order to really understand, for if you just read the words on the page, you'll get little if any understanding at all and you'll be just as confused as the rest of the folks who are seriously deceived..



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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To answer the question:

The faith of evolution has been used as a tool to "prove" that the biblical / religious records and faith are false though it is impossible to do so as evolution cannot be proven to be fact... not by a long shot.

So, when evolution is used to say that religion is false, we have a conflict.

Below is a very long article but is definitely worth the time reading it.

www.newgeology.us...



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I am sorry if I lead you to believe I wanted to debate evolution, I don't. I don't know why this thread progressed after my answer quite frankly. The OP did ask one question did he not?

Why is evolution and Jesus counter to each other?

Well I answered it, end of story adios amigos see ya later alligator... Now if the OP continues on we will know he was NOT seeking an answer to his question but rather a fight about Jesus... We shall see!

I am not going to argue or debate evolution with someone not skilled in 6 Scientific fields cause we know your answer already.

Have a great day though!

[edit on 12/13/2008 by theindependentjournal]



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I see what you did there... Let me see if I can do it too...

Jesus - Jew
Mary - Jew
Peter - Jew
Mark - Jew

Must be something to it if all these great figures in the bible were Jewish...

How about the fact that 29% of all christians are catholics! amazing isn't it!

Or more appropriately, lets take a minority group... say Atheists... some statistics have Atheist numbers around 22%... some as low as 10%... (I'm thinking somewhere around 17% is most accurate...) There are more Atheists in the U.S. than there are Jews and Muslims combined! WOW! Atheists must have it going on...

right?

meaningless statistics and information...

I'd argue about your Einstein comment... but bah, its way off topic...



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by nj2day
 


I posted that not whomever you accused, but you haven't been right all night on this one so why break a perfect record...

I ANSWERED THE QUESTION, NO MORE HERE PEOPLE MOVE ALONG...



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by infolurker
 


I can prove evolution based on your criteria...

Ford cars all have 4 tires, chevy cars all have 4 tires, Dodge trucks all have 4 tires and polaris recreational vehicles all have 4 wheels...

This proves that they all evolved over millions of years from a skateboard (4 wheels just simpler).

Or they all had a common designer


All Christians believe in Jesus...

I know a guy named Jesus...

Jesus must have evolved over 2000 years into the guy next door who comes over to watch hockey every so often!

Reductio ad absurdum works both ways...



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 10:54 PM
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Here is another interesting tidbit:

A SCIENTIFIC DISSENT FROM DARWINISM
“We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life.

www.discovery.org...





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