Income Taxes are used to pay Interest on money loaned from Federal Reserve?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The Federal Reserve does NOT purchase anything from the Treasury Dept.

Well, somebody better go and correct Wikipedia - Federal Reserve Notes...

Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP), a bureau of the Department of the Treasury. The Federal Reserve Banks pay the BEP not only the cost of printing the notes (about 4¢ a note), but to circulate the note as new currency rather than merely replacing worn notes, they must pledge collateral for the face value, primarily in Federal securities.

Originally posted by Diplomat
I can never get a straight story on here.

Almost every other response in this thread contradicts itself. One person states one thing as fact, then the next person comes in and says it isn't true.

Can we just definitively put this to rest already with actual sources and evidence?

What I posted is not just some random investigation. It was something ordered by the president, and was presented to congress.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1982, President Ronald Reagan requested an investigation into waste and inefficiency in the Federal government. For this purpose, he initiated a Private Sector Survey on Cost Control, or PSSCC, generally known as The Grace Commission, and asked the members of that commission to: "Be bold. We want your team to work like tireless bloodhounds. Don't leave any stone unturned in your search to root out inefficiency."

The Grace Commission Report was presented to Congress in January 1984. The Report claimed that if its recommendations were followed, $424 billion could be saved in three years, rising to $1.9 trillion per year by the year 2000. It estimated that the national debt, without these reforms, would rise to $13 trillion by the year 2000, while with the reforms they projected it would rise to only $2.5 trillion. In reality, the debt reached $5.8 trillion in 2000.

...

The Congress did not act on the recommendations.

[edit on 14-12-2008 by badmedia]

I am officially more confused about the subject now than I was before I started this thread.

Does the U.S. Government pay the Federal Reserve owners interest on the money printed or not?

The first thing that I learned about income taxes when I took the course to be a CTEC. A license non accountants and CPA's need to prepare income taxes for compensation is the break down of how much money is collected in income taxes and where that money goes.

I was told that, and the instructor made a little joke at the time about "you think your credit card interest sucks check out what the govt. has to go through" and preceded to tell us about the 3 trillion in taxes they collect a year and how none of it actually goes to pay off the actual debt but the interest and that the govt is sorta locked in and screwed too.

I donno' maybe crakure (sp) (the main comptroller for ATS) will know more about this he's a CPA I think. I know he knows tons about taxes.

LOL @ "my dad is a successful business man" ahhahahaha

i know hundreds of successful business men, they all know the real deal, except a small few, maybe your dad fits in this category?

you must be a very young kid who thinks any successful business man must know more than the average person, but you will grow up to know there are literally hundreds of thousands of successful business men who got lucky and dont know #

Does the U.S. Government pay the Federal Reserve owners interest on the money printed or not?

Yes, through the Treasury security collateral owned by the Fed. But they give it back. Most of it anyway.

Here is the 2007 Federal Reserve Annual Report.

Go to the Income and Expenses chart on page 328. Under Current Income you will find "U.S. Treasury securities . . . 40,297,924".

Go to page 330. There you will find "Payments to U.S. Treasury (interest on Federal Reserve notes) . . . 34,598,401".

Well I dont know where your taxes go, but mine go to pay Hillary's mortgage.

She has a pool house where the secret service live, they cost 10,000 dollars to live there per month- our taxes (I guess that what she worked it out to be). Her mortgage is 10,000 a month. You do the math.

Yeah, sec of state.

Real bright future here folks.

reply to post by Diplomat


YES, they do. End this discussion cause we cant stop what is going on unless your Uncle is Bernard Rothschild??

nevermind...ashamedamerican beat me to it

[edit on 14-12-2008 by GuyverUnit I]

The US Govt. and it's Treasury was foreclosed on in 1933 by the Fed and placed into receivership. That is why the gold was called in and the United States Treasury was absolved and replaced with the Feds own Dept of Treasury where The gold went to the FED as repayment.

There exists a form of bankruptcy called "Receivership" which is similar to wage garnishments that the IRS performs when you owe them money.

This is what the Govt is in with the FED, Receivership. Therefore all tax revenues go through the FED who is in receivership of the Govts. garnished wages aka tax revenues.
The only way in which to prove this is to look at a cancelled check used to pay taxes, it will indicate who the payee really is....the Federal Reserve Bank.

Ask your Dad to look up a cancelled check sent to the IRS and read the endorsement on the back.

It will say :

"Pay any F.R.B. Branch or Gen. Depository
for Credit U.S. Treas.
This is in payment of U.S. Oblig.;

Note: Pay any FRB...Federal Reserve Branch or Gen. Depository...AND
for Credit U.S. Treas. ==> Our former Treasury
This is in payment of U.S. Obligations:


Essentially because the Government is in receivership to the FED who is a Corporation owned by other banks who are in turn owned and directed by stockholders who happen to be wealthy European families our taxes go directly to the owner of the Governments debt, or the FED.


That in a nutshell is what is going on
This will not be publicized because it is unconstitutional and hence illegal.

In 1933 F.D.R. declared the U.S. bankrupt along with Congress and placed the country into bankruptcy proceedings. If the American public had even the slightest clue as to what was done to them then let alone now, they would move on Washington before the sun set.

Starting with the Federal Reserve Act, which merely set the stage for the crash of 29 and the bankrupting of the government in 33. The question is; how do you pay back what you never really owed let alone the occurred interest? As many have figured out, you never can. Thus you were sold before you were born to pay a debt you never owed but you volunteered to do so with the first 1040 form you filed to include "all" future debt. So if your waiting for the coffee to brew and the donuts to be fried, your too late. The coffee is cold and the donuts are all gone.

You might want to consider what POTUS G.W. Bush Jr. said about the constitution, "its only a GD piece of paper". If you do not understand bankruptcy and what it does, you might want to brush-up on it. I am sure you won't be happy with what you learn.

The fact remains, all taxes paid go to the creditors via the Federal Reserve to pay the interest on what is (claimed to be) owed. However, the interest that accrued is greater than all the taxes received. We can never pay off the debt. Federal Reserve 1 US taxpayer 0.

There was an ad in USA Today that offered 50 grand for the law that says you must pay income tax on your personal labour. I believe it was in the late 80's or early 90's. No one has collected to date and there were IRS agents trying to put this to rest as well and even they couldn't figure this out and they work there. So don't feel bad that you can't wrap your mind around this, every 8-9 years really weird thing happen that we talk about for the rest of your life and never find an answer unless Popular mechanics does an article for us.

Yeah right! you go with that one

...I will. Unlike you perhaps, I do not take my economic education from Youtube?

The Fed lent cash and government bonds to banks that handed over collateral including stocks and subprime and structured securities such as collateralized debt obligations, according to the Fed Web site.

Read closely.. the Federal Reserve does not Own the Bonds being taken out, the reason the Bonds where issued is a method to control inflation -- just printing money -- the borrowed money, including the short term bonds that where issued have to be paid back, hence us holding collateral. Just as the Treasury owns huge shares in corporations now, as collateral.

Well, somebody better go and correct

I better go correct Wikipedia? As far as the quote, to print money there being some form of collateral to do such, would in it's self increase the currency .. that is to say, if for every $1, $1 worth of collateral has to be pledge, and $7trillion is generated for a country that has a multi trillion deficit, there is nothing to pledge, let alone the wealth creation from such a move would be insanely hard to mask.....


Especially since every bank that is a Member Bank is insolvent and all but bankrupt?

Kind of, contradicting if you ask me..

Does the U.S. Government pay the Federal Reserve owners interest on the money printed or not?

no. We pay Debtors. Those who own the debts, once Matured the funds would be delivered (1yr note, 10 yr note etc etc)

On top of that, income tax is not the only source of income, and along with the fact that income tax far exceeds interest obligations (pre bailout?) it could also be said that Corporate Excise Tax pays for the debt?

reply to post by Rockpuck


Time to duke it out over this like we have 100 times before. Lets get some intellect going here remember this thread......
www.abovetopsecret.com...

First off the Chinese have indeed inched up to #1 on the holder of our debt. I was about to rebut you then I read the chart which before had Japan and UK at the top. China become a US debt buyer like mad I see....

www.treas.gov...

Now in regards to the FED they DO buy debt The Fed holds our debt and yes they charge interest which yes all the interest earned goes back to the treasury but that is minus the fees to "run the fed" which is then split up among the owners. Contrary to what you say the owners are beyond a few banks. No one can know for sure who the real owners are because they wont allow you to know. Thats just how it is. Oh BTW here is the link for the debt held by the FED I know youll want proof.
www.fms.treas.gov...
Now in the battle before in the thread I posted above it came down to this. Does the government borrow from the banks in a typical loan format? No they do it through bonds with interest attached. Same thing different verbage.



[edit on 16-12-2008 by mybigunit]

I do not think any of the crazy talk about who calls the shots for the fed is thaat crazy. But the maddening thing to some is that we really don't know or understand the magnitude of the possible corruption. We all know this would not be found on a respectable website because the amount of power the fed has and has carried for some time is well protected. And i mean that in the sense that banking is a confidence game to a large degree and having joe 6 pack or joe money manager's beliefs fostered in an enviornement where such corrupt thoughts and ideas could be weighed unbiasedly (w/0 negative reinforcement in investment circles would not be a smart way to protect power). These are just my observation and beliefs...........mere speculation.....and as i said nobody really knows either way .........but as far as some of the money collected from income tax going to the interest paid on national debt that is loaned to our gov't.....absolutely ........the amount ....? But there is also the Black market where trillion in drug money and sex trade are laundered thru banks and also IMO used by intelligence agency's to fund who knows what and pay off who knows.

I think the fed governers call the shots but i think governers are cherry picked according to what people realize there tendency's ..........game plan will be. I think these goveners are also coached by some well placed and "trusted economists...maybe even some Private equity peeps with ties to gov't and intelligence cirles... to make sure they follow a vague...plan that may be in line with broader goals in society which i do believe are outlined in some sort of business plan by organizations like the trilateral commission as well as in bilderberg meetings which involves many men and women of power from industry across the western hemisphere.

I believe most of the fed goverers are cherry picked and often educated at university with the economics classes are seen thru a very limited monetary perspective.....usually the milton freedman school of monetary thought......in a sense you could say they are indoctrinated and then once they show intelligence and alliance /beleif in the friedmanite monetary school of thinking they may be rewarded thru reasonable promotion.

I believe there is also a certain enviornement among financial managers who are more threatened by losing there "reputation or legitamacy" by delving into topics that lend credence to perspectives that shed light on possible corruption. And i don't mean aliens and reptiles controlling our leaders and the money supply LOL .....just basically that brainstorming about the possible corruption about the regulators, ceo's, "the hands that feed them " is not a topic that is rewarded and a enviornement appears to be fostered to me where there is a very real chance of losing your customers or reputation for being even reasonably open minded to certain criminal possibilities regarding the power of those in high finance for lack of a better term. There does appear to be a "teflon" ness of the central banks around the world. Once you facilitate an enviornment where people realize that you will get more powerful for playing the game, not whistle blowing, caring only about the bottom line and next quarter's profits , where you have such a powerful ASSET such as INformation control among "trusted financial outlets" you will have greed and corruption everywhere, the depth it goes and the amount that can be proved is a fools game but it is also tempting.

I think the big thing to realize is how FRAIL our economy (as well as most of the world's) is right now as well as the currency's that support them. Some major changes will be occuring over the next 10 years and there will be opporunity's everywhere.

The smart money got into gov't bonds last year and LEVERAGED UPa a tad ....once the fed started cutting .they will probably do some profit taking within the year and then the fed may start buying em up to keep rates low....

and yes i think there are many hundred well organized circles of corruption within certain country's, industry's, some multi national with a considerable amount of overlapping espcially the "higher up" you go, i also think that a higher % of the world sociopaths focus in some of the industry's that are supposed to be looking out for the public the most....financial.....police....media......military....intelligence....s of industry......i think the cream of the sociopath crop rises to the top in alot of instances as they can sometimes be the most calculated and wealthy and intelligent.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by cpdaman]