Should Smoking Be Banned?

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by jfj123

 

Please I am begging a non smoker to tell me the difference from banning smoking because it “may” I repeat “may’ cause damage through second hand smoke. But the perfumes and colognes that people where directly can give people who suffer from migraines their migraines.

Exactly how many times do I need to explain that I'm not in favor of banning smoking??? Seriously??? HOW MANY!!???

First of all it seems as if you have a problem with colognes. That sucks. But just for the record, if you worked with me and you told me that my cologne gave you headaches, it wouldn't even be a question. I would NEVER wear it around you again out of respect for you and your health.

Actually, in a couple posts to me you DID say you were voting for it to be banned. Look at the top of this page for instance. But your argument with cologne is the same as a smokers. It is harmful to that persons health to smell your cologne. You say SHS is harmful to yours.
You tell the other poster you would never wear it around that person again, meanwhile subjecting many others unknown to you that have the same problem. Albeit I am not saying that smoking and cologne are on the same page as toxins, but the argument is similar.

reply to post by Ant4AU


no, just start one at a time. unless you enjoy having your water contaminated with a bunch of crap THEY control.

obviously you dont have much of a concern for this issue as most of everyone else does.

they are allowing your body to suffer from toxins, drugs, etc and you just want to standby and let it happen? no dude, thats not what humanity is about.

if you knew what that stuff did to you long term im sure you would change your mind.

we dont have to shut down the entire planet... we just need to ensure that unwanted products are not included in the items we consume from the industries we as the free nation depend on.

its quite obvious, we are losing our freedom and this is how they are taking it. the method thats legal and difficult to detect.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by stinger94

You sir, are an ass.

And you sir must be the captain of your debate team

Nope, lol, but I have to say that was amusing, I didn't see that one coming. No sarcasm, you really got me.

You are arguing just to argue and contribute in no way to this debate.

The only reason you say this is because I disagree with you. If I agreed with you, you'd be applauding me.
And what I'm doing is expressing my opinion. The value you place on it is your own personal decision.

Sorry, no. If the roles were reversed I would still ask you to show me irrefutable sources. As was proven earlier I believe on the previous page, neither of us will be able to. You will think my info, (as you have throughout this thread) is bogus, or simply ignore the link.

You want to force your opinions on everyone to show us little people how smart you are.

I'm expressing my opinion like you are expressing yours right now. See how it works ?

It isn't you expressing your opinion that gets to me. It is the fact that you tell everyone else how wrong they are.

You're an idiot.

Really? That's how you have an adult discussion? You have no counterpoint so you insult me with childish names? Wow, I'm so impressed that I will change my stance immediately.

I have had many counterpoints to which you have ignored.

I have tried very hard to be civil but watching you badger people has gotten me to a boiling point.

Badgers don't smoke

I have known many that do. But you do have one thing right, non-smoking ones are better, they're more annoying lol

A right is not a right with conditions.

Of course it is.
For example, in the United States, we have the right to own a gun however I cannot randomly fire it into a crowd of people.
I have the right to get together with my friends at the movies buy I can't yell fire unless there's really a fire. Of course rights have conditions.

Again you are wrong. You can do all those things. You will have consequences to face but you can do them. You have free will. So no they don't have conditions.


Yes and since evolution happens so quickly, we never have to worry about how cigarette smoke will affect long term health.

Yes because we just started smoking 20 years ago.

I see so I must breath your smoke and you're saying it is not an infringement on my rights yet at the same time, you're claiming me not wanting you to smoke is an infringement on yours.... really?

Noone said you had to breathe my smoke. But if you choose to put yourself when I am already there smoking, your fault not mine.

I will admit it isn't nice or right to blow smoke at people, but I have the inalienable right to do as I please.

And I have the right to stop you. For example, since you cannot police yourself, I can vote to ban smoking. See how that works?

I can and do police myself. You have the right to do whatever you please, try to stop me. Please.

Don't walk through where I am smoking.

Don't smoke where I'm walking.

I don't.

I'm walking here *cough cough* you shouldn't smoke here. That will be met with a you shouldn't be walking here.

And that will be met with COUGH COUGH I'm voting to ban smoking.

Really? When you have been shouting you aren't voting to ban it? Oh lookie there right under this sentence you said it again.

Look, I have said over and over that I don't want to see smoking banned HOWEVER, I don't want to be subjected to it everywhere. I don't want to see children exposed to it everywhere.
[/quot

The fact is you aren't. There are very, very few places that allow you to smoke in public anymore.

Umm guys.. gals.. whoever..
Im not a mod and its not my job to say.. keep your cool..

But as a smoker.. And a long time smoker.. Lets try to keep our cool here.

You see its part of the plan to call eachother names.

Please for everyones sake.. respect..

It serves no greater good to get into name calling matches..
When I know in my heart that we can talk about this in a more civil manner.

Its sertinly a heated debate.. and both sides are to blame..
Yet its only playing into the hands of those who control both sides..

Its another puppet show.. just keep that in mind..

reply to post by jfj123

I can show you 2nd hand smoke is both a direct lung irritant and can initiate disease factors. Will you believe it? Of course not as you have already decided that the facts that refute your OPINION are wrong.

No you can't - or you would have already. If you look at my history on these boards, you will see I defer to evidence when it's presented. My opinions are only what they are because of what I've read and observed and assimilated.

My bias, being a smoker, is obvious - but if I see some factual evidence that y'all have been right all along, I'll change my position on the subject.

As it is, the anti-smoking studies I've read are just that - anti-smoking. By and large they are conducted by 'scientists' who go into the experiment with an agenda; they discard evidence that doesn't bolster their hypothesis, and highlight evidence that does.

Studies seeking to explore the positive health effects of smoking can't get funding, and aren't published.

The methodology of the anti-smoking studies is very often seriously flawed.

Hell, half the time there IS NO EXPERIMENT - the 'evidence' presented is simply a loose collection of statistics bent to the agenda of the researcher. As Mark Twain said, "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics..."

If you had this magic bullet evidence, you would have posted it. Saying you could, but won't - ironically that's what we refer to as 'blowing smoke' - funny, no?

Really? Regardless of legalities, do you simply not understand that morally it's wrong?

1.) Quit changing the subject when you find yourself in a corner.

2.) Morals are subjective and vary from region to region.

3.) Smoking is not a moral issue.

Of course it's not and if I posted 1000's of pages of factual information, it wouldn't be enough or you would make a claim that it's "skewed" or "faked" or some other excuse that helps you ignore the reality of smoking.

We'll never know until we try.

Awww poor smoker.
Do you honestly believe that the product in cigarettes which you inhale, have no affect on your health? and others?

I honestly believe that my smoking, while posing a potentially grave danger to my own health, poses almost no risk to those around me. I also know that it will most likely prevent me from ever suffering from what I fear most - Alzheimer's. As such, I believe it's my decision, and not something you, or anyone else, has any say in - do you understand?

Inhaling hot smoke and particulate is not healthy, but there are any number of unhealthy, potentially deadly things a person can do for their various benefits. If it weren't for the problem of personal choice, alcohol, firecrackers, fast cars, and any number of other delightful things would be illegal. This is the world desired by many people, a world of bland substitutes for life, prolonging life without enriching life.

I'd rather have a relatively short life filled with enjoyment than a long series of years like so many bowls of tasteless porridge, each more gag-inducing than the last.

I've weighed the risk, and I believe it's in my best interest to keep smoking, and that's my decision. If that changes, so will my behavior.

Are you saying that cigarette smoke is completely inert and in no way harmful to anyone and anything? Do you actually expect anyone to believe that?

I can't imagine what it was I said that made you think that.

I never said anything of the sort.

That was a disgusting vid and I didn't watch all of it. I despise naggers and haters like you because you hide behind a fake 'do-gooder' disguise that has nothing to do with caring about anyone else but everything to do with pumping up your own impotent ego which has little to revive it. So you make other people feel bad so you can feel better about yourself. The ONLY thing that keeps me going and keeps me from choking someone like you is the fact that someday I expect to see snotty non-smokers like you with more to worry about than somebody else's business like where you're going to get your next meal or how you're gonna pay for your kid's medicine for an illness that may kill it without the meds. Why don't you get a life and leave people alone. And oh, while you're at it, if you live in the U.S. STUDY THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS. Because if you go swaggering around in the real world talking this smak, you may just get a good one. A smak. In your head. And I hope I'm around to see it. You didn't want to OFFEND anyone??????????????/ What a lie!

Well i assume that was aimed at me if not i do apologize but what happened to respect here because you are seriously lacking in it by the looks of it also

I despise naggers and haters like you because you hide behind a fake 'do-gooder' disguise that has nothing to do with caring about anyone else but everything to do with pumping up your own impotent ego

erm ok ye well im sorry to tell you this but i truly do believe smoking is bincredibly bad for you and your not going to convince me otherwise with posts like that and also their is people in this world that do try to be good instead of acting like a jerk and im sorry but you sounded like a jerk in that last post if im honest

The ONLY thing that keeps me going and keeps me from choking someone like you is the fact that someday I expect to see snotty non-smokers like you with more to worry about than somebody else's business like where you're going to get your next meal or how you're gonna pay for your kid's medicine for an illness that may kill it without the meds.

whoa calm down before you post because i think its very unfair that you seem to be judging me and acting like you know all about me when you dont

if you live in the U.S. STUDY THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS. Because if you go swaggering around in the real world talking this smak, you may just get a good one. A smak. In your head. And I hope I'm around to see it.

and no i dont live in the u.s and even if it did do you really hink my views would change because ie got news for you they sure as hell wouldnt because i hold my views strongly and where i live or who i live with isnt going to change that unless their is actually a good reasons for it and getting a smack isnt a valid reason

You didn't want to OFFEND anyone??????????????/ What a lie!

again sorry but you are wrong again i didnt want to offend anyone who wants to offend anyone here seriously

and next time if you want to participate in his debate please be a bit more respectful and calm down before you post because noone wants any threads here to just turn into a slaggin off match instead of the subject that we set out to debate over

Originally posted by ZenaV
That was a disgusting vid and I didn't watch all of it. I despise naggers and haters like you because you hide behind a fake 'do-gooder' disguise that has nothing to do with caring about anyone else but everything to do with pumping up your own impotent ego which has little to revive it. So you make other people feel bad so you can feel better about yourself. The ONLY thing that keeps me going and keeps me from choking someone like you is the fact that someday I expect to see snotty non-smokers like you with more to worry about than somebody else's business like where you're going to get your next meal or how you're gonna pay for your kid's medicine for an illness that may kill it without the meds. Why don't you get a life and leave people alone. And oh, while you're at it, if you live in the U.S. STUDY THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS. Because if you go swaggering around in the real world talking this smak, you may just get a good one. A smak. In your head. And I hope I'm around to see it. You didn't want to OFFEND anyone??????????????/ What a lie!

Wow no offence but this comment shows alot about the person you are im sorry to say. You sound like a child who's candy was stolen. It should not be a threat to you as its unlikely they will get rid of your beloved ciggarettes. As for us non smokers not all of us hold this grudge as you cna read and wad through the pages most off the non smokers implied that nothing is wrong with tobacco only the chemicals they put in it. So please dont put us all in the same boat. We know smoking is addictive. I have to be under the same roof with smokers. If you were in my shoes where its been smoked in your face whilst talking to you and breathing it in every single day you get it worse then the smoker. When its your loved ones you have no choice but to hack it and stay quiet. Im never rude and tell them to leave but they unfortunately never give me the courtesy to move away and smoke it outside.

no. ban alcohol if anything.

I’m smoker but I don’t think that discrimination of smokers is something bad. I really like cigarettes and I can’t imagine a glass of beer without cigarette. I understand that its nothing good for my girlfriend and my friends but I can’t stop smoking. Smoking should be banned in some public places because smokers can’t stop smoking and they don’t want to poison other people. They must be obligated by some regulations.
As a smoker I’m so brave saying that because I find other solution to my problem. I bought electric cigarette and find that it is great. I don’t poison myself and others in surrounding. I have a substitute of real cigarette which is very realistic. I have my nicotine without rest of that # and I’m much happier.



[edit on 16-12-2008 by odyseusz]

It's not that smoking should be banned (that's the choice of the stupid weak individual that exposes their and our bodies to the legal poison - one of many), it’s that the Production should be STOPPED at source. What its OK to allow tax profit from the sales but not to stop this killer at source? Irresponsible governments and addicted individuals. Fools the lot. [I really must get off the fence on this one]

This being a conspiracy site I couldn't resist posting this article.

The smoking conspiracy.

Smoking Helps Protect Against Lung Cancer

i no longer smoke after 40years of smoking. i dont suopport it but i disagree with banning it because like proabition in the usa they would be smuggled or made with nasty contents besides with the deteriating state of econimes etc and depression dont we have more to worry about not to metion how many billions of duty would be lost to goverments and more taxes would have to be added to petrol etc and we payy enough already.

I smoke and I respect the not smokers but I think that there are excessive(unfair) bans. Today we are parked as sheeps, there are not places anymore reserved for the smokers in bars... The tobacco generates a lot of money(silver), result(profit) as the price increases constantly, there is some forgery which arrives of several countries and these cigarettes are even more harmful hands naturally less expensive!
It is sure, best would be to stop to smoke, but who does not have vices ?

www.americanchronicle.com...

heres an other one for people to read if your bored by this debate weather or not smoking should be alowed or not,

why cant there be smoking pubs and non smoking pubs...is this because...shock horror,people would think this is discriminating against them? but i guess its alright when its non smokers kicking up poo...and then when pubs or clubs provide outdoor heating so smokers can enjoy a smoke in comfort the global warming brigade also join the debate...and as was already pointed out...carbon monoxide is largely made up of cars exhaust fumes than smoking...ban cars! oh no..non smokers need cars too,thats no good.I mean really,i cant find anything sane about this at all.Its control freaks looking to surprise surprise control.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Buddy420
I wouldn't care if cigarettes killed within a week of their inhalation. You will never convince me to give up my liberty to do as I please, and yes that means my liberty to do things which are considered very unhealthy. I will fight for people's right to decide for themselves how healthy a life they want to live. Would you want people telling you you're not allowed to eat red meat, ride a motorcycle, swim in the ocean, etc.. I know most of this has already been posted, but I don't understand why some can't understand such a simple concept.

Well here's the difference.
When person A eats red meat in excess, it doesn't DIRECTLY affect person B's health as it does with cigarettes.

Now let me be clear AGAIN, I am not in favor of banning cigarettes but there needs to be some type of regulation to prevent smokers and non-smokers conflicting in public, enclosed spaces.

If you read my post, you must realize I agree smokers, like me, should respect peoples right to not have to breath smoke in confined areas. Some people are suggesting I am infringing on their rights by smoking outside and I disagree with that.since smoke of anykind dillutes into the atmosphere pretty fast.

reply to post by zysin5


Although I completely disagree with your health conclusions, I agree with the whole respect idea on both sides. As a matter of fact, one of the proposals Michigan, USA is looking at passing is as follows:
Ban all smoking in public buildings except bars and cigar store type establishments AND if a diner or resturaunt wants to purchase a "smoking license" for a yearly fee, they can have smoking in their establishment.

I like this idea because it requires the posting of a sign at the door so you know what you're getting into BEFORE you walk in.

Seems like a decent compromise to me. I don't want to see either the smokers or non-smokers rights trampled on if possible.

Originally posted by stinger94

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Ant4AU
reply to post by jfj123

 

Please I am begging a non smoker to tell me the difference from banning smoking because it “may” I repeat “may’ cause damage through second hand smoke. But the perfumes and colognes that people where directly can give people who suffer from migraines their migraines.

Exactly how many times do I need to explain that I'm not in favor of banning smoking??? Seriously??? HOW MANY!!???

First of all it seems as if you have a problem with colognes. That sucks. But just for the record, if you worked with me and you told me that my cologne gave you headaches, it wouldn't even be a question. I would NEVER wear it around you again out of respect for you and your health.

Actually, in a couple posts to me you DID say you were voting for it to be banned. Look at the top of this page for instance. But your argument with cologne is the same as a smokers. It is harmful to that persons health to smell your cologne. You say SHS is harmful to yours.
You tell the other poster you would never wear it around that person again, meanwhile subjecting many others unknown to you that have the same problem. Albeit I am not saying that smoking and cologne are on the same page as toxins, but the argument is similar.

Once again, in almost every post I have posted in this thread, I have specifically stated that I don't think smoking should be banned.

Regarding the cologne thing, I'll tell you what, I'll throw out my cologne right now. I didn't realize it was a problem for others and causing migranes. I'm serious, I just tossed the cologne in the garbage and won't wear it anymore.
As an aside, keep in mind that smoking can also worsen migranes as it constricts blood vessels.

reply to post by jfj123


That's the first of your posts I could agree with, starred it just for that hehe.. (the one concerning mutual respect and compromise)

My volatile reaction to anyone wanting to 'ban smoking' is because of the Draconian measures the Belgian goverment has taken to comply to their demands, while not taking into account any attempt at compromise..

And they're even openly letting on they are in favor of a complete ban..

Haven't heard of the subject in a while now, though, maybe the banking crisis and the fact this country still has no effective goverment after nearly 2 years after the election put it on a side-track..

If they had been open to a compromise, I'm thinking maybe I wouldn't have been quite as touchy on the subject..

[edit on 16-12-2008 by Phatcat]