Military AI Supercomputer Mind Monitoring: What I have learned

New member here but been lurking for a while.

This topic caught my interest as I work in the field of computer science and I have a keen interest in everything opposite to science i.e. anything that is outside or on the edge of the bounds of man-made science.

I think the debate has been interesting and the OP has done a good job of answering the critics and questions so not going to add to it.

It's hard to discuss such a complex subject without trying to be biased one way or another so I will try to approach this with my tech/geek hat on.

A bit about me, I am a 30 something IT professional living a normal life, got kids and a generic house with generic neighbours. I like to tinker and make stuff, enjoy art, sports and classic cars and martial arts science (the science and theory behind martial arts). Day to day I work as a system architect and have a background in coding, IT systems and consultancy.

So thats me, I wanted to start my reply with a point that no one has touched on...

Computers are mechanical and 2 dimensional in nature from their core binary operations and logical patterns to their more apparent phyiscal functions such as the hardware and components.

It was a human who dreamt up the design and eventually brought to life what we know as computers, technology and the science that goes with these.

So computers are just our thoughts that have taken physical form, a reflection of a tiny part of our self - hence the term "the brain is infinately more capable and mysterious than any machine".

The original design of computers is open to debate, certain occultist believe it was a djin or the devil that gave men the ideas of what we know now as the CPU and computer technology as a whole.

But I am not sure of that, either way, whether a godsend or some devilish machination, it was men who gave the ideas physical form and then evolved it further.

Remember this is what is special about us as human beings and what seperates us from other species, we have the ability to create ideas in the unseen void of the mind and turn them into physical reality... to coin a phrase:

"And god made Adam as a portion of his ownself, sculpted from clay.."

So the computer is ultimately our child and a reflection of some part of how we operate at a physical level but still 2 dimensional at its core and thus limited at what it can do or evolve to.

Quantum theories are touching on multi-dimensional processing however I believe we will not really see the concept grow until the physical hardware limitations are overcome (e.g. the type of material used like silicon etc).

So this machine that is reaching out and touching people like the OP is limited at what it can do and ultimately follows some 2-Dimensional logic in the form of software (the OS, apps etc).

Now for it to be intelligent that is a question... AI is such a vague term it often confuses the masses - read the words, 'Artificial' meaning something external (and man made?), not living or seen as a limited lifespan product.

Alternate Intelligence is a better term.

And AI is not actually that difficult to engineer despite what people say. You simple need to do the following:

1. Create an environment to contain the code
2. Create some basic rule sets that are generic (think OOP here)
3. Create basic, simple objects that have simple operations they perform autonomously
4. Create code (apps) that use the simple objects, combine them where necessary and using the rules, make the simple objects carry out their basic functions or when governed by the application/code, perform a given function

The simple tasks are combined to achieve a greater goal, the idea of RISC computing 'empathic engineering'. Create enough basic objects, rules and functions and you have something that will eventually display autonomy.

For it to be sentient it would need to act and react to its environment which it can do by applying simple actions..

tbc

And of course, the AI system needs to be able to store information but in a way that it can also operate on this 'memory'.

Neural network concepts have made in roads here and it is amazing at what engineers have been able to concieve e.g. a semi biological memory module that has internal neural-net structures and pathways to store memory in multiple locations and split into fragments etc.

So what I am saying is the technology is there and I will bet even more capable and fantastic then we can imagine.

The best way to visualize this possibility is to take all of the scientific facts and research we know of (centering around AI, Computer Science, Engineer, Biologiy/Chem/Physics) and then try to imagine if these, current teachings, could be applied to new more fantastic concepts...

For example in 1996 there was a small article in a engineering journal that discussed research done by the military and some academic institutes around semi-synthetic materials.

It even discussed a CPU and Memory Devices made of synthetic material that behaved like plants i.e. mimicking photosynthesis - when a laser fired at the cube, a molecule went from on to off and vice versa.

Different frequency of lasers penetrated different depths of the "photo-cube", the final part of the article discussed a practical use where a prototype device was being built that would use lasers, fibreoptics and the photo-cube to act as a Central Processing and Memory unit.

So anything is possible, I would not be surprised if this machine is capable of much more than we care to know.

You can already see in the media talk of creating various 'data repositories' to store information about our lives. Who hard is it to think certain people have not intended this information store to be finaly access by this machine.

Incidently in 2000 there was small news centering around a computer system being connected up to sattalites, traffic systems, civil systems and transport and apparently this excercise was about 70% complete.

So the possibility is there but what can the OP do about it?

We are all different, I believe in my mental strength, I can often visualize complex ideas in my mind as movies being played out or 3D models... the awareness of that, awareness of bio-feedback (from martial arts) and an acceptance of the wider universe has made me very strong.

Is the OP weak then? NO - The OP is obviously being interacted with (for now, I have read the posts and can't see the machine becoming aggressive) so he should try to become aware of that and visualize himself.

When he can see himself from a 3rd person view (We all do it daily when remembering something) he is in a better position to start make some important decisions and performing some critical actions.

Forget what you have been told about your body, told how the brain sits 'up there' and 'gee erm your foot is down there'

The whole body is a massive processing unit and a well engineered machine. Did you know the heart has it's own neural pathways, memory clusters and nerve endpoints (meaning it can send and receive signals)?

Did you also know that any part of the body can function on it's own, independant of the brain?

Don't believe me? When you touch something familiar you are accessing memory cells near your finger tips, your brain is merely translating that memory into an internal image (thought).

Did you know that your organs communicate with each other?

And even more amazing (and true), every neucli, atom, molecule to cells etc all resonate at the same frequency, all rotate anti-clockwise and are in sync with everything else in nature?

Is this machine the OP encountered real? I believe so because I experienced something that led me to believe there is some kind of system out there that is inheritly evil.. an Anti-Christ of religious myth if you will..

Anyway my advice to the OP and others, look inwards and learn about you first...

reply to post by MemoryShock


I take your points on board, allow me to retort..............

I do not believe I was bein myopic, you took the two points in which my own judgement prevailed. Sorry I do not agree with you on this, I do not believe having a different viewpoint to you feels that I am close minded.


My background is physics, I read through the OP with great interest, it seems highly improbable to me due to what I know of the world and how it works. I don't like the way the term quantum is bandied around to give the idea of superpowers. When we can fully understand and engineer the quantum world I believe our world will change immeasurably for the better (as long as used by the right people). This was only mentioned to my Mother in passing, and that was her reply, I never stated it as a diagnosis, only as an interesting point. Better than the usual tripe of 'go to a psychiatrist' etc. that you get here, what do you think?

Our viewpoints will never be the same, however, my most important comment, I feel, was the fact that every link is simply a definition, there is no proof of this other than what the OP tells us.

I also find it interseting that the OP mentions previous drink and drug use, no conclusions, just an interesting point.

Maybe I was wrong, but the point of this site was to gather as much information as possible, in order to deny ignorance?

I'm getting fed up of giving my opinion, then being shot down by someone who thinks otherwise. I did not attack, simply offered my limited knowledge on the matter and then my opinion. Debate, I believe it's called.

If "They" Built such a thing.. The Fools are the ones that are lead to "Believe" they are running it and have control. The AI has no Relative Bound to "Time" Whereas those who think they are controling it do.

Its only a matter of process's before all the errors on the grid are fixed.

Originally posted by Molech
I'm getting fed up of giving my opinion, then being shot down by someone who thinks otherwise. I did not attack, simply offered my limited knowledge on the matter and then my opinion. Debate, I believe it's called.

Agreed and please accept my apology regarding an over the top reaction...however, I would still like to respond to a few of your points...

I don't like the way the term quantum is bandied around to give the idea of superpowers.

I can agree with that one hundred percent and something I wanted to convey was that just because a term is tossed seemingly haphazardly does not a false premise make.

In my opinion, the OP is trying to communicate the fact that he has encountered what may be external manipulations and his attempts (chalk full of wikipedia links) to define the tech for it is to alleviate concerns he may have regarding the public perception of mental illness regarding such considerations.

And for the record, I think he is accurate...at least in the general conception since I am by no means technically savvy in this regard. But click the third link in my signature for my experiences (bottom of the first page....keep going though as it is interesting, in my opinion).

This was only mentioned to my Mother in passing, and that was her reply, I never stated it as a diagnosis, only as an interesting point. Better than the usual tripe of 'go to a psychiatrist' etc. that you get here, what do you think?

I hope you consider that my statement was not meant personally...and as a consideration it is indeed a valid point but as it was presented there was a potential to infer a dismissive tone which I personally feel inclined to defend against on this particular topic...

Our viewpoints will never be the same, however, my most important comment, I feel, was the fact that every link is simply a definition, there is no proof of this other than what the OP tells us.

True enough and fair enough as well. Extrapolative proofs can be found in patent links which I shall edit in soon...

I also find it interseting that the OP mentions previous drink and drug use, no conclusions, just an interesting point.

Interesting but I must emphasize that drugs and alcohol do not a false perception make. I am/was a heavy drinker and I am (too?) prideful that there are few more rational than I...

Again, apologies for the tone of my post but I assure you that the general theme of this thread is more than the technical links/definitions...at least in my opinion...

Patents...basic sciences...and social motivations oh my

Enjoy the read...and then tell me that there isn't an underlying intelligence community designed to incorporate technological advances for surriptitious surveillance of the human animal.

Indeed...if I had the motivation there are some really specific details that could be traced for the demonstration of veracity...

Before this goes any further, I just want to say I don't like putting personal info on the net but I have been in a tech field for all my adult life. I see people suggesting or attributing the development of technology to supernatural forces. A lot of people had a hand in the creation of computers and it took a lot of effort and hard work and they deserve credit for it so... here you go...

Physics including electromagnetic theory

Transistor and IC in a nutshell

I believe probably from this point forward, and what tmk has alluded to, that there could have been divergent disciplines outside gov't control in the private sector and a more hidden development elsewhere where money was not a concern and neither was generating a profit or mass production. I'm not sure this is the case any longer as money is less of a concern to metanational companies like IBM who are looking into creating the artificial brain. I'm sure there are similar projects all over the place.

In any case carry on, but remember at the core of a discovery particularly beyond the past fifty or sixty years a lot of work and genius went into what we now have...

If you really think about it every device we use today and sustains society really came from such a small small fraction of all humans that have existed. Primarily, imo, due to communication problems. Every obstacle always comes down to communication problems of some sort. I am personally all jazzed up about the singularity event although I a still have concerns...

Back to reading your links...

Originally posted by miragezero
In any case carry on, but remember at the core of a discovery particularly beyond the past fifty or sixty years a lot of work and genius went into what we now have...

And likely at the considered and intended expense (however regretted) of others whom were unlucky enough to be exposed to that genius...so it is a trade off when considering human themes...

Back to reading your links...

Here is a thread specific excerpt...

PALM BEACH, FLORIDA - Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. today announced
that it has acquired the patent rights to a miniature digital
transceiver - which it has named "Digital Angel" -- that can be used
for a variety of purposes, such as providing a tamper-proof means of
identification for enhanced e-business security, locating lost or
missing individuals, tracking the location of valuable property and
monitoring the medical conditions of at-risk patients.

In the agreement signed last week, ADS acquired the right to develop
this unique product itself for all of its applications or to sublicense
the development of specific applications to other entities. A special
technology group has been formed within ADS to supervise the
development of the device.

-Snip-

Commenting on Digital Angel's many potential applications, Richard J.
Sullivan, Chairman and CEO of Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. (ADS),
said: "We believe its potential for improving individual and e-business
security and enhancing the quality of life for millions of people is
virtually limitless.

Link

My Emphasis. What would Richard J. Sullivan have to say about tmk's thread, I wonder? I seriously doubt that he had anything to do with anything specific here but he is aware of this technology...that many have scoffed at in this very thread...

reply to post by MemoryShock


I am reading your link to raven1 (hadn't been there in a few years heh) and am about halfway through it. There is a problem because EW recommends at one point to try to experiment yourself by simulating elf with pulsated vhf etc... i can see how this might work however no where in any of the documents so far do they describe the signal strength required for the subject. My point is this is dangerous and RF can burn you.

The other problem is that while this is now foia anyone can do this. They give you enough information to duplicate a lot of the experiments. Whatever pieces that are missing could be discovered by trial an error...

Also, I wouldn't worry that much about digital angel just yet. It would have to be proven unhackable and unclonable to be accepted.

Additonally eventually we are going to have unsecure tags with internet2 each of which will have an IP address... although net2 has been stalled for at least a 10 years. More later...

[edit on 29-4-2009 by miragezero]

[edit on 29-4-2009 by miragezero]

Originally posted by miragezero
Also, I wouldn't worry that much about digital angel just yet. It would have to be proven unhackable and unclonable to be accepted.

Very interesting point and one I hadn't considered...but the acceptability factor does not necessarily preclude involuntary applications of a surriptitious nature...

Interesting on the RF stuff and I do now wonder on the re-creation of these issues...though I dislike the necessary involvement of the human factor...

Originally posted by miragezero
Additonally eventually we are going to have unsecure tags with internet2 each of which will have an IP address... although net2 has been stalled for at least a 10 years. More later...

I have no idea what this means...

Please excuse my ignorance...net 2 and tags?

reply to post by MemoryShock


Sorry, was referring to the internet2 which is already out there just no one can use it lol

www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu...

In that link they describe how the IP addresses will increase to allow pretty much everything on the face of the earth to have an IP address and be hooked to then net from your toaster, your car, etc... by tags I was referring to something like RFID that will have an additional communication layer (RFICD?) to allow this to happen. So that as you or whatever passes by a scanner not only ID would transmit but also whatever kind of data it has collected. I just pick RFID because that is a close analog. RFID cannot currently store power enough to record data (that I know of). But you get the idea. Or whatever normally has power would have a network card inside. I wouldn't sweat it because it's gonna be a hackfest. But really if you live in a city already you cannot escape the all seeing eye. But really all the troublemakers are not on this board... bigger fish to fry.

This is kinda old but some guy slamming Internet2...

www.slate.com...

[edit on 29-4-2009 by miragezero]

[edit on 29-4-2009 by miragezero]

reply to post by MemoryShock


You have just restored my faith in humanity! Thank you for your post. Unfortunately I did not see anything to change my mindset on the link you provided. I admit that it is a site that has a lot of interesting reading, it does however use a lot of very questionable physics, again, my background. I think the bastardised microwave to cause ailments put me off.

I do believe that factions within world governments would be falling over themselves to gain such technologies, it is just that in my opinion we do not have the capabilities yet.

I did enjoy our spar though. Thank you, and I will leave you yo discuss this in peace, I have nothing more to add.

Originally posted by Molech
You have just restored my faith in humanity!

That is a tall order and one that I will prohibit my ego from running away with....

Thank you for your post. Unfortunately I did not see anything to change my mindset on the link you provided. I admit that it is a site that has a lot of interesting reading, it does however use a lot of very questionable physics, again, my background. I think the bastardised microwave to cause ailments put me off.

Your welcome but I want to point out that there is a temporal lapse with the information presented in the link and the current (public?) knowledge. The greatest extrapolation, as it can be the most accurate inferrance in my opinion, is that there were people discussing and researching this decades ago!!!

Some of the patents are no doubt bunk tech by our current standards...but a failed experiment is not a failure if you consider that a possibility was eliminated. And much of Black Ops, in my decidely uneducated opinion, requires those "oops, we got it wrong" type of expenditures of money, time and effort.

My Emphasis
I do believe that factions within world governments would be falling over themselves to gain such technologies, it is just that in my opinion we do not have the capabilities yet.

As an interesting illustration of rhetorical absolutes (as the above emphasized implies that there is no way no how we have the capability), would you say that not having the capability denies the experiment?

Seeing as the experimentation process is what invariably leads to a "capability"?

I did enjoy our spar though. Thank you, and I will leave you yo discuss this in peace, I have nothing more to add.

I do hope you will consider what I have presented though. My 'background' is sociological so we are on two sides of the coin in that respect. I have no idea, unless I made efforts to, how to define this topic by way of physics. But human nature is what it is and I only hope to hell that it isn't as bad as these possibilities suggest...

And I enjoyed this as well...

I have read this thread again and I cannot decide that anything I could offer you tmk could be beneficial and yet I do not want to be silent either... I can tell that you are freaked out.

TMK, you say that you have already done therapy so I have to assume that you are not going to again... so... I would, if I were you set up experiments that would confirm or deny influence alltogether from an outside source. For example, if it is playing music or voices via speakers as you describe, then record it. If it is too smart for that then at least you will buy yourself some silence... Record everything. If the AI is being controlled by some group then it cannot bring its full power to bear likely. After thinking about this a bit it is probably not a singularity event but would be something short of it.

Additionally an intelligence is reason. Reason with it directly and ask it to stop.

One last thing you can do... sit on your arse and not do a damn thing. If satan really was real and really wanted to piss god off he would do that. Do a passive aggressive thing. Laugh it off. F that thing. Pay it no mind and stay busy. Hell, from the looks of it you could breeze through college and build your own AI to defeat it... ;-P

I do not know what else to say. These are the only things I could come up with that I think would not have me confirm your conclusions about what you are experiencing, however i know a good and decent person when I see them and I appreciate your honesty. I'm sorry if my ideas suck, but at the same time I think you should try them. You have nothing to lose.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by miragezero]

reply to post by k4rma

any connection between shadow people, shadow govt and this AI Computer?

Yes, in some circumstances there is a connection even though drug-induced psychosis can be a substantial cause of shadow hallucinations. If you are targeted then an otherwise isolated hallucination such as shadow people can be amplified to induce a more severe psychosis. Some techniques this system has used on me include thought insertion, voices, visual hallucinations and body manipulation. Its ability to subvert the mind of an individual is greatly enhanced when the individual is under the influence of methamphetamine.

Historically, the government has been researching psychoactive drugs as tools for mind control since at least 1942 around the time the OSS was formed (Psychoactives, War, and Covert Operations Timeline). I can relate from my experience that the government is now able to remotely induce alternate realities using methamphetamine, hypnosis and high-stress psychological abuse such as psychic driving. During the peak of my awakening phase I went through abuse which could best be described as acute brainwashing. The following passage from Psychoanalytic Quarterly, 27:612-613 (1958) describes the fundamental process of psychic driving:

Playing back to the patient, by means of tape recordings, important parts of therapy sessions has proved valuable in treatment. The procedure consists of insuring extended and repeated reaction by the patient to his own verbal cues ('autopsychic driving') or cues verbalized by the therapist, but based on the patient's psychodynamics ('heteropsychic driving'). Since this compels a continued response within a field largely limited by the cue material, it has been termed 'psychic driving'. Selection of a satisfactory key statement for psychic driving requires awareness of the patient's major problems. Autopsychic driving has as its primary value the penetration of defenses, elicitation of hitherto inaccessible material, and the setting up of a dynamic implant. Its purpose is usually achieved within thirty minutes of driving. Heteropsychic driving is best carried on over extended periods (ten to twelve hours daily in hospitalized patients or during sleep). Its primary uses are changing of attitudes and setting up a dynamic implant.

Psychic driving has been used in many ways: with pillow and ceiling microphones, presentation of the same theme in different ways, isolation of patient, etc. Purely mechanical variations seem of little importance. The responses to psychic driving include immediately constructive reactions, partial blocking, rejection and later acceptance, and rejection and escape, among others. By this method, the patient is shielded from the full implication of his own verbal communications. The voice sounds different. One's own voice is heard ordinarily as a synthesis of air and tissue conduction. Defense against hearing what one does not wish to hear is organized against the synthesis of tissue and air conduction. In psychic driving, tissue conduction is eliminated and thus there is a new situation against which defenses have not been organized. This breakdown in the shielding occasioned by elimination of tissue conduction is one of the basic reasons why driving is effective in penetrating defenses and in enlarging the area of the patient's communication, both to himself and to others. The patient is able to understand more of his communication when it is driven than when he hears it for the first time because of the differences in talking and listening. As the driving circuit is played back repeatedly, both patient and therapist hear more and react more extensively.

Driving (driven material) is verbalization of a part of a community of action tendencies, with reference, for example, to the relationship to the mother, to self-assertion, or to sexual experiences. The reheard verbalizations constitute a cue which will set the particular community of action tendencies into operation, and not any others. In ordinary therapy the patient tends to move away from a painful area; in psychic driving he is unable to do so. The endless repetition confines him to a continuous reactivation of the particular community of concepts.

There are continuing effects of psychic driving. Striking continuously at a given community of action tendencies produces intensification of the individual's behavior. He becomes tense or anxious and this provides the persistent driving force of the implant. Efforts at freeing himself from this intensification cause continuous reactivation of the area concerned and thus further recoganization of the area is brought about. Psychic driving invariably produces responses which tend ultimately to be therapeutic.

In reference to the psychic driving messages (from "Brainwash: The Secret History of Mind Control" by Dominic Streatfeild):

The messages were varied. Initially it was deemed best that the patients were played recordings of their own voices ('autopsychic driving') but when they found this unsettling, Cameron and his staff recorded suitable messages for them ('heteropsychic driving'). Then the technique was honed further. 'He had what he called a negative tape,' recalls Roper, 'which was, "There's something wrong with you, nobody likes you. You've got serious problems." Then there was a positive one. "People like you. You like people." He had a programme where he would sometimes play the negative tape first and then the positive one.'

In my case markedly more disturbing phrases from a variety of different voices (including my own) were used as well as visual and vocal thought insertions and body overlays which at times felt like I was being possessed. The communications enveloped different scenarios putting me in a state of flux as to what was happening.

As an aside and something related to dream manipulation, while in high school I had an unusual dream where a long slender black silhouette of a man stood in my bedroom doorway staring at me while I lay in bed. Looking back at this figure I had the feeling it was pure evil despising me, laying in wait to harm me. The image posted in the shadow people article reminded me of this.

tmk you're absolutely right about that shadow you saw. and i think there is some correlation between your brain operating at a different frequency when under the influence of drugs that speed up or slow down your system significantly, and once your brain recognizes this you can call on it at any time, hence the "time-dilation" phenomena - sorry that's another subject, but i think the frequency your brain operates at definitely has something to do with communication. and the "glitches" that occur? same thing i would think. thanks for sharing yall, i thought i was the only one who experienced this crap...

[edit on 1-5-2009 by k4rma]

Originally posted by tmk81
As an aside and something related to dream manipulation,

In my opinion, this is the most important thing you have stated...as the implications are very relevant in behavioural conduction.

Please....post more on the above...

Department of Energy is buying the fasted computer ever (known) to exist



It's for the U.S. Government who will use the system for "uncertainty quantification (UQ) studies" and weapon science calculations.


[edit on 2-5-2009 by miragezero]