If you want to disregard whats written in the Bible go ahead and do it, but at least understand the fact that the hate being spouted is in
contradiction to everything the Bible stands for.
Why worship the G-d of Abraham and pretend to follow the teachings of Jewish prophets and writers if your going to insult and disrespect the people
who wrote the Bible?
Why not pick a non semitic god? How about looking at some pagan gods, especially of the Norse variety? Since people's hate of Jews has blinded them
so much, just go ahead and pick a non Jewish god and religion.
There is no point for people who hate Jews to claim to worship a Jewish G-d and follow the writings of Jews. Its completely and utterly stupid.
The Jews Killed Jesus!, page 4
privacy
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 02:07 AM by toasted
reply to post by Incarnated
So, you're gonna use this piece of work ;
" THE URANTIA BOOK
PART III - THE HISTORY OF URANTIA "
as evidence?
Well, good luck with that.
So, you're gonna use this piece of work ;
" THE URANTIA BOOK
PART III - THE HISTORY OF URANTIA "
as evidence?
Well, good luck with that.
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 03:29 AM by Incarnated
reply to post by toasted
Yeah, maybe your right I shouldn't use a book that can be seen as fiction that has supermen that are born out of virgins and walk on water. Oh wait! That's not the Urantia book, that's the bible!
So yeah. The Urantia book is real. It doesn't matter if your willing to see that yet.
Yeah, maybe your right I shouldn't use a book that can be seen as fiction that has supermen that are born out of virgins and walk on water. Oh wait! That's not the Urantia book, that's the bible!
So yeah. The Urantia book is real. It doesn't matter if your willing to see that yet.
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 03:33 AM by Incarnated
reply to post by MikeboydUS
First off, I'm not Jew hating. I'm challanging a stupid christian belief that it is somehow wrong to point out that the Jews killed Jesus. I don't care that the Jews killed Jesus. If the Jews didn't kill Jesus, we might not even be talking about Jesus at this time.
It would be the same thing if the christians brought me up to the government of our world today and pressed false charges against me and had me put to death under false accusations.
The Jews killed Jesus. Face it.
First off, I'm not Jew hating. I'm challanging a stupid christian belief that it is somehow wrong to point out that the Jews killed Jesus. I don't care that the Jews killed Jesus. If the Jews didn't kill Jesus, we might not even be talking about Jesus at this time.
It would be the same thing if the christians brought me up to the government of our world today and pressed false charges against me and had me put to death under false accusations.
The Jews killed Jesus. Face it.
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 04:41 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Incarnated
Lets dispense with the religious stuff and just look at the situation in a legal historical objective manner.
The Tribe of Judah, aka the Jews, as a whole are in no way shape or form responsible for the death of one of their own. You can't charge an entire tribe with murder. It would be ridiculous.
Roman soldiers carried out the execution. Roman soldiers nailed him to his cross. The historical Pontius Pilate was brutal and violent. He ruled Judea, not the High Priest. He could of refused had he wanted to. He was not afraid of rebellion or revolt. He put down many and killed many Jews in his time. He can no more wash his hands of blood than any other murderer.
A modern day military commander in Iraq or Afghanistan could no more use Pilate's excuse than any other murderer. Pilate had "command responsibility" regardless of what he said or believed.
In a modern military tribunal or court martial that would make him responsible. If there was a trial in the Hague, Pilate would be convicted.
Looking at it in modern legal manner, there is no way a tribe could be charged period. Pilate had command responsibility and would get convicted if it was a murder trial.
The Jews didn't kill Jesus. Face That.
Lets dispense with the religious stuff and just look at the situation in a legal historical objective manner.
The Tribe of Judah, aka the Jews, as a whole are in no way shape or form responsible for the death of one of their own. You can't charge an entire tribe with murder. It would be ridiculous.
Roman soldiers carried out the execution. Roman soldiers nailed him to his cross. The historical Pontius Pilate was brutal and violent. He ruled Judea, not the High Priest. He could of refused had he wanted to. He was not afraid of rebellion or revolt. He put down many and killed many Jews in his time. He can no more wash his hands of blood than any other murderer.
A modern day military commander in Iraq or Afghanistan could no more use Pilate's excuse than any other murderer. Pilate had "command responsibility" regardless of what he said or believed.
In a modern military tribunal or court martial that would make him responsible. If there was a trial in the Hague, Pilate would be convicted.
Looking at it in modern legal manner, there is no way a tribe could be charged period. Pilate had command responsibility and would get convicted if it was a murder trial.
The Jews didn't kill Jesus. Face That.
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 09:30 PM by DantesLost
reply to post by Incarnated
All of them
I would say it comes down to just one Jew,Joseph Caiaphas,the high priest.
His position was threatened,on his orders Jesus was arrested and interragated,he said that it would be better for one man to die than for the whole nation to be destroyed,he "prophesied" that Jesus should die,he rigged the trial,he told the Romans Jesus was guilty of sedition etc etc.
Related link.
www.bbc.co.uk...
[edit on 19-12-2008 by DantesLost]
The Jews Killed Jesus!
All of them
I would say it comes down to just one Jew,Joseph Caiaphas,the high priest.
His position was threatened,on his orders Jesus was arrested and interragated,he said that it would be better for one man to die than for the whole nation to be destroyed,he "prophesied" that Jesus should die,he rigged the trial,he told the Romans Jesus was guilty of sedition etc etc.
Related link.
www.bbc.co.uk...
[edit on 19-12-2008 by DantesLost]
reply posted on 19-12-2008 @ 11:16 PM by toasted
reply to post by AshleyD
All excellent points.
And for me, this is not about pointing fingers and shaking my finger at a certain group to say naughty naughty naughty!!!
I'm interested in pointing out what has been glossed over by many but pointed out by Our Lord, where to a certain group He said ' ye are of ye father the devil"!
Was He just being cute? I'm thinking not. I'm thinking, that He is clearly saying that these were Kenites, sons of cain and not of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. To say it another way, he was calling them phonies!
Another not talked about aspect is that these phonies, not only at that time were infiltrated at the highest levels, but the same continues today. And the truth of the matter is, we are all under Gods judgment, for not following The Law and for not obeying Gods order to wipe out the Kenites from the face of the earth and was told that if we did not, that they would become thorns in our sides and pricks in our eyes! Has God lied to us? I think we can see what has happened has happened as was written.
All excellent points.
And for me, this is not about pointing fingers and shaking my finger at a certain group to say naughty naughty naughty!!!
I'm interested in pointing out what has been glossed over by many but pointed out by Our Lord, where to a certain group He said ' ye are of ye father the devil"!
Was He just being cute? I'm thinking not. I'm thinking, that He is clearly saying that these were Kenites, sons of cain and not of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. To say it another way, he was calling them phonies!
Another not talked about aspect is that these phonies, not only at that time were infiltrated at the highest levels, but the same continues today. And the truth of the matter is, we are all under Gods judgment, for not following The Law and for not obeying Gods order to wipe out the Kenites from the face of the earth and was told that if we did not, that they would become thorns in our sides and pricks in our eyes! Has God lied to us? I think we can see what has happened has happened as was written.
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 06:59 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by DantesLost
According to the Gospel, the High Priest had a vision of exactly what Christians believe Jesus came for. In the vision he saw that Jesus had to die to bring about salvation. Jesus' death according to the Gospel was the inevitable Will of G-d. How could Caiaphas be blamed for doing the Will of G-d?
According to the Gospel, the High Priest had a vision of exactly what Christians believe Jesus came for. In the vision he saw that Jesus had to die to bring about salvation. Jesus' death according to the Gospel was the inevitable Will of G-d. How could Caiaphas be blamed for doing the Will of G-d?
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 09:34 AM by DantesLost
reply to post by MikeboydUS
How could Judas be blamed for doing the will of God?
If you take that stance then no one can be blamed for anything,even the Devil.
And are you going to believe the word of a man who's position of power and wealth were under direct threat from the actions of Jesus,a man who knew that Jesus could be down the wrath of the Romans upon them?
How could Caiaphas be blamed for doing the Will of G-d?
How could Judas be blamed for doing the will of God?
If you take that stance then no one can be blamed for anything,even the Devil.
And are you going to believe the word of a man who's position of power and wealth were under direct threat from the actions of Jesus,a man who knew that Jesus could be down the wrath of the Romans upon them?
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 09:49 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by DantesLost
Christians believe Jesus had to absolutely die for salvation. Jesus himself even in the Gospel knew he was to die.
Caiaphas clearly states in the Gospel that he had a vision that Jesus had to die to bring about Salvation. Its in the Gospel, he tells the Pharisees, who are arguing over the political aspects or provoking the Romans, they know nothing.
Anyway here's the verses:
47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin. "What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs.
48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."
49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all!
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.
If Caiaphas was lying about the vision, the Gospel would of stated it. Considering what Caiaphas saw correlates to the mission that Jesus believed he had, die for Salvation, the vision is clearly intended to be divine.
Now if you want to argue that the Gospel is false and Jesus should of lived because salvation doesn't matter, well thats a whole other topic. One the begs the question, "If someone believes that Jesus' death was not necessary for salvation, then why do they even care why and how he died?"
Christians believe Jesus had to absolutely die for salvation. Jesus himself even in the Gospel knew he was to die.
Caiaphas clearly states in the Gospel that he had a vision that Jesus had to die to bring about Salvation. Its in the Gospel, he tells the Pharisees, who are arguing over the political aspects or provoking the Romans, they know nothing.
Anyway here's the verses:
47 Then the chief priests and the Pharisees called a meeting of the Sanhedrin. "What are we accomplishing?" they asked. "Here is this man performing many miraculous signs.
48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation."
49 Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all!
50 You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish."
51 He did not say this on his own, but as high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation,
52 and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one.
If Caiaphas was lying about the vision, the Gospel would of stated it. Considering what Caiaphas saw correlates to the mission that Jesus believed he had, die for Salvation, the vision is clearly intended to be divine.
Now if you want to argue that the Gospel is false and Jesus should of lived because salvation doesn't matter, well thats a whole other topic. One the begs the question, "If someone believes that Jesus' death was not necessary for salvation, then why do they even care why and how he died?"
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 10:50 AM by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by MikeboydUS
The counter point to that whole argument come from Jesus himself in Matthew chapter 23 where he condemns the Jewish clergy class. Here is part of it
Matthew 23:27-38(Amplified Bible)
27Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you are like tombs that have been whitewashed, which look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure.
28Just so, you also outwardly seem to people to be just and upright but inside you are full of pretense and lawlessness and iniquity.
29Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30Saying, If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have aided them in shedding the blood of the prophets.
31Thus you are testifying against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' sins to the brim [so that nothing may be wanting to a full measure].
33You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell (Gehenna)?
34Because of this, take notice: I am sending you prophets and wise men (interpreters and teachers) and scribes (men learned in the Mosaic Law and the Prophets); some of them you will kill, even crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue and persecute from town to town,
35So that upon your heads may come all the blood of the righteous (those who correspond to the divine standard of right) shed on earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar [of burnt offering].
36Truly I declare to you, all these [evil, calamitous times] will come upon this generation. [II Chron. 36:15, 16.]
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!
38Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]
Also
Matthew 12:31-34 (New Living Translation)
31 “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.
33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. 34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. "
Many posting in this thread are missing the point that Jesus himself condemned many of the Jews of HIS generation. Especially the "scribes & pharisees" and the chief priests.
In Matthew 27: 62-64 there efforts to thwart Jesus resurrection is further proof.
Matthew 27:62-64 (New International Version)
The Guard at the Tomb
62The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate. 63"Sir," they said, "we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise again.' 64So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first."
Disagree if you want, but it's very clear that Jesus blamed at least some of the Jews that lived when he was on the earth. Not the entire race, after all some Jews did support Jesus.
The counter point to that whole argument come from Jesus himself in Matthew chapter 23 where he condemns the Jewish clergy class. Here is part of it
Matthew 23:27-38(Amplified Bible)
27Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you are like tombs that have been whitewashed, which look beautiful on the outside but inside are full of dead men's bones and everything impure.
28Just so, you also outwardly seem to people to be just and upright but inside you are full of pretense and lawlessness and iniquity.
29Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,
30Saying, If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have aided them in shedding the blood of the prophets.
31Thus you are testifying against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' sins to the brim [so that nothing may be wanting to a full measure].
33You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell (Gehenna)?
34Because of this, take notice: I am sending you prophets and wise men (interpreters and teachers) and scribes (men learned in the Mosaic Law and the Prophets); some of them you will kill, even crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue and persecute from town to town,
35So that upon your heads may come all the blood of the righteous (those who correspond to the divine standard of right) shed on earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar [of burnt offering].
36Truly I declare to you, all these [evil, calamitous times] will come upon this generation. [II Chron. 36:15, 16.]
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!
38Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]
Also
Matthew 12:31-34 (New Living Translation)
31 “So I tell you, every sin and blasphemy can be forgiven—except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which will never be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks against the Son of Man can be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, either in this world or in the world to come.
33 “A tree is identified by its fruit. If a tree is good, its fruit will be good. If a tree is bad, its fruit will be bad. 34 You brood of snakes! How could evil men like you speak what is good and right? For whatever is in your heart determines what you say. "
Many posting in this thread are missing the point that Jesus himself condemned many of the Jews of HIS generation. Especially the "scribes & pharisees" and the chief priests.
In Matthew 27: 62-64 there efforts to thwart Jesus resurrection is further proof.
Matthew 27:62-64 (New International Version)
The Guard at the Tomb
62The next day, the one after Preparation Day, the chief priests and the Pharisees went to Pilate. 63"Sir," they said, "we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I will rise again.' 64So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first."
Disagree if you want, but it's very clear that Jesus blamed at least some of the Jews that lived when he was on the earth. Not the entire race, after all some Jews did support Jesus.
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 10:57 AM by OldThinker
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
Thanks for the post....
I think there is no time in God's economy....no past, present or future...OT thinks he exists after the speed of light....where time stops/or is atleast irrelevant....therefore the answer to who killed Jesus....from a God 'vantage point' is really quite simple....
ALL OF THE ABOVE!
Thanks for the post....
I think there is no time in God's economy....no past, present or future...OT thinks he exists after the speed of light....where time stops/or is atleast irrelevant....therefore the answer to who killed Jesus....from a God 'vantage point' is really quite simple....
ALL OF THE ABOVE!
reply posted on 20-12-2008 @ 11:24 AM by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
I'm not denying the fact that Jesus criticized and disparaged the Pharisees.
What exactly does Jesus' disparagement against the Pharisees have to do with Caiaphas' vision? Even Caiaphas himself told the Pharisees they didn't know what they were talking about, when they debated and worried what the Romans might do in response to Jesus. That was when he explained his vision to them.
My entire point is in regards to this association of guilt with the Jews and the death of Jesus.
I'm not here defending the Pharisees. I'm pointing out the importance of Caiaphas' vision.
I'm defending the Tribe of Judah against illogical accusations of mass tribal guilt.
I'm not denying the fact that Jesus criticized and disparaged the Pharisees.
What exactly does Jesus' disparagement against the Pharisees have to do with Caiaphas' vision? Even Caiaphas himself told the Pharisees they didn't know what they were talking about, when they debated and worried what the Romans might do in response to Jesus. That was when he explained his vision to them.
My entire point is in regards to this association of guilt with the Jews and the death of Jesus.
I'm not here defending the Pharisees. I'm pointing out the importance of Caiaphas' vision.
I'm defending the Tribe of Judah against illogical accusations of mass tribal guilt.
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