What Does Baptism of The Holy Spirit Mean?

reply to post by Grandma


In reading the thread, I'm in agreement with everything Grandma has said so far!

I've been baptized in both water and spirit and never received the gift of tongues. As in the case with Cornelius, the centurion, he received of the Spirit before he received of the water baptism, so it just goes to show, God works things out in his own way on an individual basis.

Like Grandma said, not everyone receives the same gift and I too see the gift of tounges as least on the list. I've witnessed them twice in my life by people you just wouldn't expect it out of and that's enough proof for me, that there was no fakery in it.

The way God has chosen to communicate with his people is through his Spirit. You see, we are the Miracle at Cana. Those vessels that held the water that was changed into wine - that's us folks! Jesus' blood is symbolic of wine - and he changes us to be like him - water into wine. But it gets even better. I've hinted at this before but now I'm just going to say it - the entire Gospel of John records most every single mystical experience a person could ever want to go through. It's there in black and white, and sometimes that wonderful red letter but most people just miss it. You KNOW this Gospel is different but what you don't realize is, that it is probably the most important. It was almost not included in the Biblical Canon and it was often found amongst the Gnostic texts. I'm 99% convinced that it is what the Cathars referred to as the "Book of Love."

In other posts, I've made mention of the Bridal Chamber and I have my own reasons why I call it that - but it really is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I had been experiencing for months, these little zaps (I now know they are divine sparks) that started in my foot and worked their way up through my body until one day they overtook me. I did everything I could to make it to my bedroom and fell face down on my bed. Like someone posted above, it was like wave upon intense wave that was rippling through my brain, my mind, my very being and it was sheer ecstacy. Nothing in life can compare to it. I now get why Daniel fell on his face and why the elders in Revelation fell on their face. It all clicked.

This is God's mystical union with man. It's not just for us girls either - it's for everyone. For everything wonderful that happens between a man and woman on the night they get married - it is nothing in comparison to the union of the mind between us and our maker.

Consider yourselves informed as to why the beloved disciple was beloved. And if you have ever read Secret Mark you will now understand what it means to "KNOW" God. It also makes it perfectly understandable, as to why that part of Mark would be excluded - because if someone hadn't experienced what I know this boy experienced - how it's real meaning could be easily misconstrued. This could also be why, one day, Jesus will tell people 'I never knew you."

And once a person really digs in and starts studying, this wonderful betrothal process, it comes alive and you can see all the aspects of the ancient Jewish wedding coming to fruition in the relationship. It's really a miracle

The secret of Elijah/John is the next best kept secret, in my opinion. So much to tell, with so little time.

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Myrtales Instinct]

badmedia:

I agree. Our prayer time is a time where we humble ourselves and expose our spiritual nakedness before the Father. Our spirit utters the words for us to reach the heart of God. In my experience, the most spiritual awakeings have been when I just sit close my eyes and see myself sitting on the Father's lap, with his loving arm around me, and me leaning my head on his shoulder.....there is no need for words....there are not words to describe the realness of the moment. My spirit cries with pure joy with becoming one with the Father. What a beautiful gift he has given us when he gave us the Holy Spirit.


Peace,
Grandma

Two errors in doctrinal teaching have been characteristic of nearly all factions of the "modern tongues movement." First, they affirm that all who receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit WILL speak in tongues as evidence. Second, it is held that the Scriptures make a difference between the gift of tongues and speaking in tongues, or that one my speak in tongues without possessing the gift. These two theories are fundamental to the "modern tongues movement" and give it its character. If one believes these two doctrines and is conscientious, he will feel obligated to seek until he speaks in tongues, however long a time that may be. The belief of them tends to exalt speaking in tongues above everything else.

I do not believe there is a single text of Scripture which teaches that speaking in tongues ALWAYS follows the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Not one of the apostles or inspired writers ever taught it, and not one of the world's great soulwinners ever taught it.

No outward manifestation is the true evidence of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. I think only those unfamiliar with the witness of the Spirit need such evidence. It is said this baptism is so important there must be some outward evidence. I ask, what could be more important than the salvation of one's soul? Yet conversion is not attested by physical sign. Paul states that we know we are saved by the double witness of the Spirit of God and of our own spirits, which are not of the nature of outward signs. That the Spirit testifies to his own coming in the same manner is entirely reasonable to believe.



Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma




When my mom used to tell me about the tongues (she did it all the time and God would tell her things about me that CAME TRUE ).......I would ask her why does God want us to speak in tongues if he understands our thoughts ..she used to tell me she believed it was the language of angels and it was a spirit to spirit talk between God and the Holy Spirit ...
that always helped me understand it better ...


I think everyone gets the Holy Spirit when they give their lives to the Lord ..but there is a deeper infilling of the Holy Spirit which is what I believe I recieved in my bed that night ...........
Seriously it changed my life drastically ....I am not saying anything got better around me (in fact it got even worse) but it did give me TOTAL peace total comfort ...total faith ...and total confidence in knowing that Christ did indeed dwell within me .....(that is a comfort in itself) he keeps me in check(by conviction) and also keeps me comforted and is daily purifying my heart mind and soul ........the part that disturbs me is it makes my heart so soft that I can feel other peoples pain and it hurts me too ...I dont feel pain like that anymore about my own personal experiences (the Lord took all that pain away ) but I sure do feel the pain of others even more than I did my own ...and it really hurts my heart knowing others are going through so much and do not even know the Lord who CAN COMFORT them ..(I do tell them like Grandma says ...picture yourself in his lap with his loving arms around you ) thats what it feels like to me too Grandma ..It is an awesome experience....knowing that his spirit is that powerful that you can honestly feel it as if it is a real hug with real arms .....


PS ....there is a counterfit tongues ..(seriously I could tell when I used to go to church whos was real and whos was not ) .and there is also real tongues with an interpreter among them for the edifying of the church .(I have seen this only twice in my life ) ....I just dont think it happens much anymore because most people are so CARNAL and still walking so with the world that they are not in the spirit enough to even hear the Lord let alone allow the spirit to speak through them ...(so many people quench the spirit of God in them) ..

I know I have quenched the spirit several times and still do sometimes ... ...and the more you quench it the more of the world you become again ..(which is why so many backslide) ...........................


if we would allow the Holy Spirit to just have us all the way ..we would be out healing the sick and raising the dead ...and prophecying ....everyday .

But we are also in a time when there is so much going on we get bogged down from the cares of this world ..(which we are not supposed to do ) but it is hard not to ............


[edit on 13-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


Simplynoone:

The Lord has truly blessed you with a most precious gift; the gift of empathy. You can FEEL the others pain, that is a most wonderful gift from the Holy Spirit.


P.S. There is plenty of room up in his lap for two. Ha, ha,


Peace in His Holy Name,
Grandma

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

Simplynoone:

The Lord has truly blessed you with a most precious gift; the gift of empathy. You can FEEL the others pain, that is a most wonderful gift from the Holy Spirit.

P.S. There is plenty of room up in his lap for two. Ha, ha,

Peace in His Holy Name,
Grandma

I agree I am blessed ...and I am not saying I hate having it because I dont ..in fact the Lord gives it to me so I will know what they need when they need it ..

One time I was praying for a man who said he wanted the Lord in his heart ...the church I was going to told me he was too evil and they would not even lay hands and pray for him when we took him to him (I was just a baby Christian) .....I refused to believe that he could not be helped ..I took him home and prayed for him myself ....as soon as I touched him ..I saw everything he had done and what was in his heart ..(he had been a child molester)and he was cold and almost heartless ..But I also saw his childhood and it was what had also happened to him when he was young ..
I cried outloud to the Lord for him ....and prayed and asked God for mercy .

nothing really happened with him ...he did not accept the Lord in his heart he never did change one bit ..(was a bad alcoholic)..
But I still prayed for him ......and refuse to believe that any Christain would turn down anyone at the alter ..(even if they dont mean it ) I am not afraid (and my preacher was) ....

Anyway that was the first time I knew I had that gift ..and of course now it happens all the time ...even on the phones with customers (I work from home and answer phones etc) ..........even on the internet ...I can sometimes see right through people ...not everyone ..just some ...................

As so many have mentioned we all have different gifts ..
None are more important or greater than any other ..all have the same purpose ..TO BRING GLORY TO GOD >....and possibly bring in another precious child of God back to him ..............

reply to post by Simplynoone


AMEN! AMEN!

reply to post by Grandma

Grandma, to me, baptism in the holy spirit is baptism away from whole-ness and into swiss cheese-ness, and trust me, that is what I mean.

I look at the concept of a 'sacred spirit' herin termed 'holy spirit' as something pre-existing, not something I am initially separate from. Yet, then to take by human hand and say "I now give to you this (holy spirit)"--seems to me a fundamental confusion, so much so as to drive a wedge between the divine pre-existing and the person who otherwise knows no different than to naturally be entwined within it's love.

What does it mean really? Like in Catholicsm? I don't know, ma'am, sorry. Though a misfigured compilation of Orthodox and Jewish experiences formed my understandings and later Sikhism re-enforced those imprints.

reply to post by HugmyRek


I do not believe it is separate and "comes and goes" in people. I believe it is in you the entire time. What changes is your perception and it's like you are opening a door that was previously closed.

It does however give the feeling of it "coming" because you have the time period before you realized and opened that door, and the time after.

It does mention that the father will "send" the holy ghost, but this is referenced to only after the connection is reopened.

It's like it was always in your house, just you had the door to that room closed off all the time. So it's kind of separate in perception only kind of thing.

Kind of like the footprints in the sand poem. The person looks back and see's only 1 set of footprints and asks where were you, and the entire time it was god carrying him and he never realized or seen it.

reply to post by HugmyRek

HugmyRek:

I think I understand what you are saying. Let me see if I can expand on our thoughts a bit.

HOLY SPIRIT IS DWELLING IN BELIEVERS:
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit IN you and move you to follow my decrees and BE careful to follow my laws.

John 14:17 The Spirit of truth, the world CANNOT accept him, because it neither sees him nor KNOWS him. But YOU know him for he lives with you and will be IN you.

BEARING WITNESS:
Roman 8:16 The Spirit himself TESTIFIES with our spirit that we are God's children.

Gal 4:6 Because you are sons, God SENT the Spirit of his Son INTO our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, Abba Father.

1 John 4:13 We KNOW that we live in him and he in us, BECAUSE he has GIVEN us of his Spirit.

1 John 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood - Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that TESTIFIES because the Spirit is the truth.

AS A TEACHER:

Ne 9:20 You gave your good Spirit to instruct them, You did not withhold your manna from their mouths, and you gave them water for their thirst.

Luke 12:12 For the Holy Spirit WILL TEACH you at that time what you should say

1 John 2:27 As for you, the anointing you RECEIVED from him REMAINS in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about ALL things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit - just as it has taught you, REMAIN in him.

CALLED SPIRIT OF TRUTH:
John 15:26 When the Counselor comes; whom I will SEND to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

John 16:13 But WHEN the Spirit of truth COMES, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak ONLY what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

The Holy Spirit baptism is, like entire sanctification, distinct from and subsequent to the work of regeneration. And as justification and regeneration are distinct in nature you simultaneous as to occurence, so entire sanctification and the baptism with the Holy Ghost are distinct in their nature but take place AT the same time. That is baptism WITH the Spirit is subsequent to and not at the time of conversion is evident from even a casual reading of the Scriptures.

Yet in some sense the Spirit of God is WITH every regenerate person BEFORE he is "baptized" with the Spirit. When he promised the Comforter Jesus said, "He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you (John 14:17)

Every Christian has the Holy Spirit in him, but this is not saying every believer has the baptism with the Spirit. The Spirit of God is omnipresent in his power to work. He is with the sinner to convict of sin, with the justified person to keep him, and with those baptized with him as a mighty working force for the advancement of the kingdom of Christ, as a sanctifer, and as a comforter.

Does this help you to understand my thinking on baptism of the Holy Spirit?


Thank you for your post and your thoughts. I appreciate them very much.

Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma


Emphasis mine:

Does this help you to understand my thinking on baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Hi Grandma,

I've read a lot today. I was a bit confused today by this thread. I understand it now.

Please check your U2U?

Thanks!

[edit on 14-12-2008 by PreTribGuy]

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by HugmyRek
Does this help you to understand my thinking on baptism of the Holy Spirit?


Thank you for your post and your thoughts. I appreciate them very much.

Peace,
Grandma
how:

Oh yes, indeliably. Thank you for letting me participate. I like the nick

Cheers!