Holiday Skirmish: nyk537 vs Skyfloating: Christmas As Hanukah?, page 1

Congratulations to both Fighters...by majority decision, nyk537 takes this debate. The judges comments:

Great debate topic that was well played by both sides. Although I find myself agreeing with Skyfloating's position, nyk537 emerges as the winner in terms of how the debate was performed. Many issues were brought up during the debate and the rebuttals were well executed by both debaters.

Over all, I feel nyk537 did a better job presenting his arguments rationally while Skyfloating too often came across as appealing to emotion and relying on dramatized stereotypes. +1 nyk537.

Skyfloating's point about the climax and magic of a single Christmas Day was great. +1 Skyfloating.

I found it odd that nyk537 was occasionally criticized for debating or being passionate about the position they were assigned. It seemed strange to criticize a debater for doing what they are supposed to do or referring to their defense as "obsessive." -1 Skyfloating.

nyk537 offered a good rebuttal to Skyfloating's claim about the length of the holiday season including Thanksgiving and New Years by pointing out the close proximity is not technically Christmas. +1 nyk537.

nyk537 also returns well on the argument that 12 days of Christmas would somehow mean businesses would be closed during that time. Good job on pointing that out as speculation and not an automatic requirement to extend Christmas. +1 nyk537.

Skyfloating makes a good point about business coming to a standstill for 12 days but then nyk makes a good counter that this is only an assumption and not necessarily the way it would be. Good rebuttal. +1 nyk537.

Skyfloating asks the question about the specific number of 12 days and why not less if we are to extend the holiday. Being that this debate specifically mentions the subject of 12 days, this was a very important question that I did not feel nyk537 answered adequately. nyk537 used Kwanzaa and Hanukkah as a comparison (both having significance behind their length) but the only reasoning defending his position was the song and as skyfloating later points out 'just cuz.' +2 Skyfloating since this was an extremely important argument.

Skyfloating raised another excellent point about how people will celebrate something as much or as little as they want to regardless of the official length of the holiday. +1 Skyfloating.

Point Totals:
nyk537: 4
Skyfloating: 3
The win goes to nyk537 by a slim margin.

Open nyk537

I wasn’t certain what to make of the opening that ignored the 12-day Christmas tradition as it has stood for a long time. Just because only one of the 12 days is recognized as a ‘national’ holiday doesn’t mean the other days don’t exist. January 6th is Tree Kings Day – also recognized nationally by many predominantly Catholic states. But the question is really if your defining holiday to mean day off from work!

Open Skyfloating

Opening with the taunt “..let’s not obsess over it” kind of put me off. My reaction was strictly visceral, and your taunt was not technically inappropriate, but it took away from the spirit of debate. While we can all cynically reflect on the general lack of appreciation for the namesake of the tradition, it is nonetheless full of positive potential, as we can see Hollywood exploit it frequently. To me, the challenge of your offer was, I won’t bash Christmas if you’ll give up.
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Round Evaluation: nky537 had the better opening.
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Post 1 nyk537

You seem to be a potential organizer for the Mutualist Unions of Elven Laborer’s; I find this bit of MUEL propaganda questionable. We have seen both in other Holiday skirmishes and elsewhere no concrete evidence that JSN (Jolly Saint Nick, LLC) is running a sweat shop. Yet you have maintained an honorable appreciation for the ‘Christmas season’ being more than one day long.

Your SQ 1 calls into question a judgment of fairness regarding holiday length. Point?

Your SQ2 seems a implication to maintain the evil JSN enterprise, for shame!

Your SQ3 Nice one! Right below the belt!

Post 1 Skyfloating

Way to stay in character! “Ah...so thats the reason you're obsessing over the length of Christmas. Envy. “ Classic! I can’t say I envy your position in the debate, it’s a trick to stay cynical and actually be lighthearted about it; especially in the written form. You did well on the SQs. SQ1 was sort of a trap wasn’t it? Nyk537 really has no choice, nor do you.

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Round Evaluation: Syfloating prevailed
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Post 2 nyk537

You opened restoring the positive element of Christmas, good play. But you followed with an argument that may weaken your position, bringing ‘individual’ personal choice into it. I suspect this may bite back at you.

Your responses to the SQs had more meat and are worthy of note. Essentially, you exchanged barbs while still defending the notion of an extended – specifically Christmas – Holiday season, but then, alarmingly, the twelve traditional days of Christmas was abandoned by you in this section.

Post 2 Skyfloating

I respect the off topic comment – This kind of debate is distinct and separate from our usual ‘conspiratorial’ or ‘ideological’ meat and potatoes debate. It really does require a ‘different gear.’

However, attempting to redefine Christmas in terms of ‘days off from work’ as opposed to ‘days of Christmas celebration’ required better timing, and a bit more groundwork.

Your SQs still seem a bit all over the map to me. Although you did score a hit by redirecting nyk537 to the ‘traditional’ days of Christmas which he had conceded to you.

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Round Evaluation: Nyk537 lost this round
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Post 3 nyk537

I have never felt completely ‘sold’ on the flow structure you used. The back and forth between quotes and responses seems ill-suited to the spirit of debate. However, you countered well. This is a deceptively difficult debate.

Post 2 Skyfloating

It is difficult to warm up to your position. Your objections seem increasingly focused on negative aspects of the season. I suspect you in a way are trapped by your options as well. Indeed a difficult debate.

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Round Evaluation: Nyk537 took this round
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Nyk537 Closing

I’m convinced that the quote for quote response technique isn’t working well. You are very articulate and your position remains positive. I believe you have weakened your argument by loosening the constraints of the 12 days. I was expecting a bit more punch in your closing.

Skyfloating Closing

Your closing was very strong. Your points dedicated to the proposition that there should be no change in the current practices of the ‘Christmas’ are clear and I think more convincing.

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Round Evaluation: Skyfloating’s closer was superior.
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I think any debaters can be forgiven to appear to struggle with this kind of exchange. Both debaters showed their caliber and managed to carry it off quite well.

In my opinion, Nyk537 wins this debate by a narrow margin.