Christmas Elves, a Dangerous Hybrid?
Christmas Elves are Stranded Extraterrestrials
Christmas Elves are Finnish and Number Between Six and Thirteen
society as we know it will rapidly break down as rampaging hordes of angry, betrayed children take to the streets beginning a life of out-of-control-naughtiness.
It is, and will be, my position throughout this debate that we cannot arbitrarily assign benefits to one small group whether they number six or six thousand if it damages Society as a whole.
there has never been any indication that Santa has mind control abilities or utilizes hypnosis. Therefore, we must assume that the elves are docile, friendly, and not dangerous at all, or one man wouldn’t be able to manage them all.
For example, just outside of Reykjavik, Iceland, a soccer game was called to a halt when a misled ball rolled off the beaten path, and stopped right next to a sign that marked the home of 3 elves believed to dwell near the stones where the ball was resting. Instead of reclaiming the ball, the soccer player opted to leave it there in order to avoid disturbing the elves.
The Elves … preoccupy themselves with various things, such as smithwork, sculpture, music and other arts, and of course, what to eat.
Santa also took advantage of his burgeoning knowledge in the field of necromancy to enlarge his workforce with millions of elvish zombies, who serve him in an utterly faithful manner ...
Unfortunately, before Santaschen had enough Elves to being running his enterprise, they rebelled against his tyrannic rule and murdered him. The Elves, however, did not realize they had a traitor among their number. Knecht Krampus Ruprecht... who lovingly revived his master's body through the use of advanced technology and the secret writings of the Necronomicon.
Elves are naturally immortal, and remain unwearied with age. In addition to their immortality, Elves can recover from wounds which would normally kill a mortal Man.
In other words, the elves were already around and their abilities were known, and this knowledge is part of what made the man who became Santa Claus decide to set up his workshop at the North Pole.
My opponent suggests that these ET’s would be confused by “enforcing” our labor standards on them. That could possibly be true, but does them being different from us make it okay to exploit them?
Besides, if they’re that different we don’t have to impose our standards on them; we can find out what they like and give it to them, or at least try to.
How can we NOT provide equitable compensation and benefits to any group of sentient beings and call ourselves a modern, civilized society? Did not Western civilization dispense with slavery and inequality decades ago?
If you think that the next generation will inevitably have anger and resentment towards the current generation as they grow up, just imagine their anger if they discover that we’ve deliberately exploited an entire species because they aren’t as intelligent as most of us. Talk about angry children!!
Since we’ve already established that Santa, in all probability, doesn’t have any mind control magic….
if the elves are being coerced into working for Santa, he is probably using mind control technology acquired from U. S. Black Ops … It’s only one small step from using it on elves to using it on humans; they may in fact be conducting long-term testing on the elves preparatory to using it on you and I! In any case, we owe it to the elves - and to our own peace of mind - to find out what’s going on up there and correct any violations of elf freedom
If managing to enter, leave gifts and exit 90% (ceding 10% for naughtiness) of the homes on Earth -- and keeping in mind that most children stay awake at least once in their lives to get a glimpse of this gift giving ‘magician’ -- and never be seen is not indicative of mind control and management abilities, I would like to know what is.
they are believed to be empowered and potentially dangerous, so much so that modern Scandinavians take great care not to disturb them.
JRR Tolkien, considered the foremost researcher in the field of elves in general,
in all the accounts of Santa’s Elves we will see a theme which is that they are far from disempowered and do have the capacity to not only make mischief but defend themselves.
There is simply no evidence that they are being exploited.
So now we are not talking about unionizing their labor, but giving them what they 'like'?
Here they are happily disco dancing.
Forcing Western Civilization standards on a race that is immortal and magical?
Besides, I don’t see any young adults taking to the streets over the very real issue of child labor in China that had been making the shoes on their feet for the last 20 years.
So now my opponent is promoting going to the North Pole not as a ‘humantiarian’ gesture to right the inequalities of the oppressed but to do a covert op to find out if something wicked is in store for her personally.
As I said, other abilities that we know Santa has, such as shape-changing, time travel, and possibly teleportation, readily explain these facts without resorting to mind control for an explanation. I have it on good authority that he can make himself look like their Dad when placing presents in order to fool children, for example.
Mischievous, yes. So are children, but we don’t consider them dangerous.
Many historical and legendary accounts of elves indicate that they help humans when treated fairly, but may respond with mischief when mistreated. Since they are making our children’s toys, it behooves us to see to it that they are well treated rather than take chances with their “mischief” finding its way into said toys.
Santa’s elves are required to live in isolation in an inhospitable environment and made to work year-round building toys. Perhaps some of them would like to be doctors instead, or lawyers, or even farmers. But no, they all HAVE to be toymakers.
See any modern conveniences there? Any automation? Nope. Manual labor with outdated tools. How much better might the toys get if the elves DID have a labor union and got a little modernized?
… what makes you think they’re actually dancing and not testing the disco ball, or the floor, or a new game which someone wanted for Christmas?
Perhaps they want an iron-free environment, or a different type of lighting, or perhaps they’d like to work nights. How do we know if no one asks them?
powerful, magical, immortal beings
as we know those do not come from Santa’s workshop.
all evidence points to them WANTING to be toymakers
Santa’s elves delight in dance. ... they are clearly happy while they are doing it.
My opponent insists on presuming that the Elves must be asked by human representatives what it is they need and I find that this whole line of ‘reasoning’ is not only racist and colonial in its mentality, but suspect.
However, in 1925 it was discovered that there are no reindeer in the North Pole but there are lots in Lapland, Finland. Nobody has actually seen their village because the passage to it is a secret that is known only to Father Christmas and the elves. We know that it is somewhere on the Korvatunturi mountain in the Savukoski county of Lapland, Finland, which is on the Finnish-Russian border.
I remind you of the webcam in my opening. Did they LOOK powerful to you when they were running from polar bears and snowmen and being abducted by aliens?
(Incidentally, the fact that they were being abducted by aliens would seem to indicate that they are NOT, in fact, ET’s themselves.)
Elves are originally seen to be the creation of Germanic paganism who thought them to be the creatures of light who lived in the heavens. Elves have been depicted as male or female, tiny or dwarf-like, youthful and immortal with magical powers.
When not being called elves, they are invariably referred to as Santa’s little helpers. Most depictions of them also indicate that they are very short, albeit correctly proportioned. Despite my efforts to deal with my opponent’s characterization of elves as powerful and dangerous, I remain convinced that they are friendly, meek, and good-hearted little people.
Elves are known to be tiny, dwarf-like creatures, either male or female, with pointed ears. They are youthful but immortal and have magical powers that can control what you see and experience.
Regardless, he (Santa) is human, and as I said we know human nature, which is to take advantage of the weak, vulnerable, meek, and the kind-hearted.
The elves are the children of Gryla and Leppaludi, their father and mother. Some people say that there are 13 elves, some say 9, some 6. They are very clever and help Father Christmas to design the toys that children and grownups order by email or snailmail. We know at least 6 of the duties they have.
Here it is with their Westernised names:
- Bushy Evergreen is the inventor of the magic toymaking machine.
- Shinny Upatree is Father Christmas's (Santa's) oldest friend and cofounder of the secret village in Lapland.
- Wunorse Openslae designed Father Christmas's sleigh and maintains it for top performance. (It is believed that the reindeer reach speeds faster than Christmas tree lights.) He also cares for the reindeer.
- Pepper Minstix is the guardian of the secret of the location of Father Christmas's village.
- Sugarplum Mary is Head of the Sweat Treats, and assistant to Father Christmas's wife, Mrs Claus, also known as Mary Christmas.
- Alabaster Snowball is very important. He is the Administrator of the Naughty & Nice list.
there are no reindeer in the North Pole
Elves have been depicted as male or female, tiny or dwarf-like, youthful and immortal with magical powers. .. They are youthful but immortal and have magical powers that can control what you see and experience.
Elves ... assumed a new significance in the mid-1800's ...the elves' true role in modern life: fairies that are somewhat mischievous, but the true friends and helpers of Father Christmas... the elves help Santa design and make the wonderful toys and gifts he brings to children ... take care of Santa's reindeer and keep his sleigh in good condition
Some people think that Santa employs six elves, while others think that he has nine elf assistants. Others think that there are as many as 13 elves living with Santa to help him
it is entirely possible that Santa is under the mind control of the elves.
Judgment; Heike wins the debate.
Opening; Heike began by making some rather damning assertions about the conditions under which Santa's elves toil, which were neatly summarized at the end. To corroborate, video evidence taken by an elf-cam was supplied. Although this evidence did bolster the claims of unsafe working conditions, it seemed to contradict some of the claims. There were various clear instances of elves taking breaks. Despite the evidence that they are allowed breaks, the unsafe working conditions are clearly a problem that even Santa recognizes as indicated by the "0 days accident free" sign above the _
TheWayISeeIt begins by presenting three alternate histories of the elves. One of the possible histories presents an immediate problem to TWISI's first main objection to the evidence presented by Heike, the objection that,
I must ultimately point out that as amusing as my opponent’s link to a cartoon world is, let us not confuse it with the real world…
However, TWISI also proposes that the elves may be
stranded on Earth for millennia but with a concept of time and space completely different.
This could indicate that elves are from a different dimension than us, and that could be the 2cnd dimension, hence their oddly flat appearance on the elfcam. We will have to see how Heike handles these objections.
As a judge however, I have to say that TWISI's own evidence negates the objection to the video evidence and as such I will consider it un-refuted at this point.
TWISI also argues that even if elves were being mistreated that the consequences to society are so great as to be worth the cost.
Heike begins by arguing against the claims TWISI has made regarding the elves origin. Heike does make a good argument that the elves cannot be so inherently dangerous that Santa MUST keep them locked up. (And video evidence seems to corroborate this) Although Heike does not at this point defend the video information as valid, Heike does bring up a point that simply being different does not necessarily give one the right to exploit them.
Heike also fails to pick up on a very promising line of defense for the elves, and that is that if the elves were indeed Finnish as one of TWISI's elf origin claims suggests, that those elves would then seem to fall under Finnish law. Heike could have then used Finnish labor standards to support their case for better working conditions for the elves.
Despite this missed opportunity, Heike does handily refute TWISI's claim that improved conditions for the elves would cause the breakdown of our society, and ends with some support for their argument that difference does not give us free reign to exploit.
TWISI in this round is falling into a trap many very good debaters find themselves in. Trying to cover all possible objections and bringing in too many defenses for their case. This can only be successful IF you are certain that one defense you bring in is not in direct contradiction with another. Unfortunately for TWISI, casting the net too widely is dragging in contradiction.
TWISI brings in a source, uncyclopedia.wikia.com... that seems to support a history of brutal enslavement of the elven by humans. And, the fact that the elves revolted show that they are not willing participants in Santa's plan, but rather are compelled to work against their will.
TWISI emphasizes that they do not wish us to consider this the best source, but then fails to provide a link to a source they find more credible. If it doesnt help your case, leave it out. In this case, it has been introduced, and not refuted by TWISI with the alleged more credible source, and it is actually quite damning.
TWISI does make some fair points by stating that Heike has not shown the ET origin theory untrue, but Heike's argument is not that it is ok to exploit the elves if they are alien, and so failing to refute that point is not damaging to Heike's case. So far, TWISI is doing more damage to their own case than to Heike's.
In this round no real ground was gained by Heike.
Although Heike does make an effort to counter the claims made by TWISI, there is no real solid case building done in this round.
TWISI does effectively counter a point made by Heike that not everyone considers children harmless. (This judge among them!) But fails to see how their own evidence is contradicting the claim that the elves are doing what they do of their own volition.
TWISI also brings in more photo's of elves apparently enjoying themselves as proof that they are not being enslaved. However, many slaves throughout history have danced and sung, and otherwise tried themselves to make their lot more bearable. We will have to see if Heike picks up on this.
Heike does indeed pick up on this.
Did not the African slaves in America have celebrations, and dance, and make music? And yet, surely no one here would consider that an indication that they were “happy” with their lot and did not need to be freed from their slavery.
Heike makes a very good appeal in this round. They address points of contention brought up by TWISI logically, and eloquently. It was a good wrap up of the argument to set the stage for closing.
TWISI seems to finally be taking a stand as to the origin of the elves. I am not sure that their origin was the best route to take in building their case, but it is the one consistent theme in their argument. Unfortunately for TWISI, this decision to choose a story and stick with it is coming awfully late in the game, and is already undermined by their own earlier suppositions.
TWISI does bring up a very interesting possibility to counter Heike's claim that Santa being human is subject to human nature and humans have a propensity to exploit the weak. TWISI introduces the possibility that Santa, not the elves may be the victims here. Again, this is late in the game, perhaps too late, but would have been a very good position to argue from had they begun this line from the start and been consistent.
Heike doesnt really do much to refute TWISI's assertion that it could be the elves that enslave Santa, and not vice versa. (ie; that Santa has access to a vehicle at least once a year and returns willingly)
TWISI, on the other hand brings up good points that we cannot assume that the elves give toys to good children to make them happy. We cannot attribute human motivation to the elves without knowing more about them.
Both fighters did an excellent job at different places in the debate. TWISI really came on strong at the end, but could not undo the damage to their argument caused by their initial bringing in of contradictory evidence. While Heike did lose a little focus at the end, and failed to really address TWISI's very valid points, Heike over all made a very consistent well reasoned appeal for the elves. Unfortunately for TWISI, a strong ending in this case was not supported through the argument as a whole, and some of their own introductions into evidence contradict the conclusion.
This has got to be one of the funniest debates I've read in awhile.
But, alas, there can only be one victor, and in my humble opinion this is Heike.
Heike started off with a strong argument and stuck with her points throughout the course of the debate. She dealt deftly with TWISI's points and came out on top.
TWISI spread herself out a little to thin with various lores concerning this mysterious group of creatures. In the end, she could not support any single theory and spent more time defending her stance than playing offense.
Heike's stance that the elves present predicament was analogous to slavery, while calling upon the good works of Mother Theresa, and throwing in a little black ops conspiracy was simply genius.
All in all, this proved to be a most delightful debate.