How can anyone possible think $28/ is overpaid? By the cost of everything in this country, I figure that number to be what pretty much everyone should
be making.
It's typical to attack the higher end of the spectrum!
Many millions of people who also work hard are lucky if they make half of that, and instead of raising pay scales on the lower wage earners, a big
stink to be made to bring those workers and their wages down to our level.
If the UAW were abolished tomorrow, those workers wages would be cut in half ( as they, as of a few years ago, have people who are hired in at lower
tiers) their retirement benefits would disappear ( you know those people, they're the few elderly left in our country which didn't have to go to
work at McDonalds or Wal-Mart upon retirement just to pay for their needed prescriptions) and we should do away with this because it's- what- bad?
What is bad is how, with extensive media hype, this SPIN has worked to dismantle a part of blue collar, middle class workers.
We ALL deserve to make as much, they ( the blue collars) don't deserve to make less.
Im Sick of and Im Fed Up of Unions Being Blamed For Auto Bailout Breakdown!!!!, page 6
privacy
reply posted on 27-12-2008 @ 01:45 PM by poet1b
reply to post by Lanimilbus
Its not how hard you work, it's how much you get done.
www.aflcio.org...
Maybe you think you are the hardest working guy on the planet, and maybe you're just cheap.
Our economic problems are not that there are too many people with money and nothing to buy, like the former USSR, our problem is that warehouses are filling up with stuff, and nobody has any money to buy anything, that needs anything.
Why doesn't anybody have any money?
BECAUSE IC's have exported all the jobs overseas for slave wages. If you can't understand this, and how this is the reason behind our economic situation, I doubt if you are as productive as you claim.
Its not how hard you work, it's how much you get done.
www.aflcio.org...
Some scholars have found an even larger positive relationship between unions and productivity. According to Brown and Medoff, “unionized establishments are about 22 percent more productive than those that are not.”
Maybe you think you are the hardest working guy on the planet, and maybe you're just cheap.
Our economic problems are not that there are too many people with money and nothing to buy, like the former USSR, our problem is that warehouses are filling up with stuff, and nobody has any money to buy anything, that needs anything.
Why doesn't anybody have any money?
BECAUSE IC's have exported all the jobs overseas for slave wages. If you can't understand this, and how this is the reason behind our economic situation, I doubt if you are as productive as you claim.
reply posted on 27-12-2008 @ 02:43 PM by poet1b
reply to post by whatukno
Umm, what country do you live in?
The U.S. congress has approved over a $$$$TRILLION$$$ in bailouts for banks.
Personally, I say screw the banks. The banks are nothing but a bunch of crooks anyway.
If we are going to bailout anyone, I would much rather bailout the auto industry.
Who created this mess? THE BANKS.
Why should UAW workers pay for the crooked actions of our crooked banking system.
So let's see, Congress went with the will of the majority of the people and did not further rob our treasury in order to bail out failed businesses.
Umm, what country do you live in?
The U.S. congress has approved over a $$$$TRILLION$$$ in bailouts for banks.
Personally, I say screw the banks. The banks are nothing but a bunch of crooks anyway.
If we are going to bailout anyone, I would much rather bailout the auto industry.
Who created this mess? THE BANKS.
Why should UAW workers pay for the crooked actions of our crooked banking system.
reply posted on 27-12-2008 @ 04:39 PM by anachryon
Originally posted by whatukno
What will most likely happen is a strike of course. That way the union can bully our country and auto makers that are struggling as it is to give into pressure to pay people more.
Let the UAW strike!!!
We don't need all the cars they'll be cranking out. People aren't buying at the rate they were two years ago, even just a year ago. Let 'em strike! No one will notice a sudden shortage of cars because there's so much of a glut that are sitting in storage.
That might've been an effective bullying tactic 5 years ago, but now it'd be like trying to force a drowning person to buy water by threatening to NOT sell them any water in the near future.
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 12:55 AM by Lanimilbus
Originally posted by poet1bWTH is that suppose to mean. I'm not cheap. I'm very proud of doing a HONEST days work for a better wage than what sweatshops pay. (trust me I've work there before, I know).
reply to post by Lanimilbus
Its not how hard you work, it's how much you get done.
Maybe you think you are the hardest working guy on the planet, and maybe you're just cheap.
All I have stated is the truth based on MY life experience.
ONCE AGAIN, for those that have avoided the truth that I have spoken several times already by throwing out some garbage survey. I know these old men that have done nothing for YEARS at Chrysler. I know the younger men that work 3 hrs a day to get quota, and sit on their butts and make $28 an hour to play cards and do crossword puzzles. I can give you names in a more private setting. It may not be happening right now since their golden money pot is about to dry up. But this attitude is what has driven these places into the ground. They have always gotten away with it because management and union both agree on it. They are ALL to blame. Unions are not all bad as your posted survey shows, but did you notice most union workers are not working for the big 3 ? Health care, non-durable goods, etc.
I doubt if you are as productive as you claim.
I KNOW I am. At the end of the day, I can honestly look my boss in the eye and tell him I gave him a good 8 hours. Can you? If so, good for you, or you are fooling yourself and no one else.
Conversation over
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 01:02 AM by Government Cheese
reply to post by mybigunit
Hopefully this wont come as a shock, but being a union worker isnt a requirement for a middle class lifestyle.
I worked in the construction field for 5 years, and without a doubt the biggest slackers on any and all jobsites were the union guys. They whined the most, and were the least productive.
I could go on and on providing examples of the types of employees in unions either being: unproductive, lazy, worthless, etc etc, but it would fall on deaf ears.
Unions are a bastion of mediocrity at best.
Hopefully this wont come as a shock, but being a union worker isnt a requirement for a middle class lifestyle.
I worked in the construction field for 5 years, and without a doubt the biggest slackers on any and all jobsites were the union guys. They whined the most, and were the least productive.
I could go on and on providing examples of the types of employees in unions either being: unproductive, lazy, worthless, etc etc, but it would fall on deaf ears.
Unions are a bastion of mediocrity at best.
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 04:01 AM by poet1b
reply to post by Lanimilbus
You're alright, I bet you are a good worker.
Me, I like to work. When I go in and work hard, it makes me feel good, but too often I do very little, but I often take on jobs were several others were failing, make things happen, and get things done. This is what my boss wants from me. I am a tech, and that is what I like to do. It is not about working hard, but getting things done. The problem is that with current productivity, we work ourselves out of a job.
We are not suffering from lack of productivity, but lack of consumer demand, not enough people making enough money to keep the wheels of commerce running.
You're alright, I bet you are a good worker.
Me, I like to work. When I go in and work hard, it makes me feel good, but too often I do very little, but I often take on jobs were several others were failing, make things happen, and get things done. This is what my boss wants from me. I am a tech, and that is what I like to do. It is not about working hard, but getting things done. The problem is that with current productivity, we work ourselves out of a job.
We are not suffering from lack of productivity, but lack of consumer demand, not enough people making enough money to keep the wheels of commerce running.
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 04:10 AM by poet1b
reply to post by Government Cheese
I have only worked a union job for a short time, but even in non union jobs, there are always the political players who do little work, but play the game. Work politics is always the biggest problem. It isn't the unions creating the problem any more than the office workers and management. I have seen many a hard working people screwed out of their just due because they failed to play the politics.
While unions contribute to their share of the problems, they are not the problem. it is more about human and technological evolution. We produce more than we are capable of consuming, then politics makes a mess of everything.
I have my share of stories as well. Do you see where I am coming from?
I have only worked a union job for a short time, but even in non union jobs, there are always the political players who do little work, but play the game. Work politics is always the biggest problem. It isn't the unions creating the problem any more than the office workers and management. I have seen many a hard working people screwed out of their just due because they failed to play the politics.
While unions contribute to their share of the problems, they are not the problem. it is more about human and technological evolution. We produce more than we are capable of consuming, then politics makes a mess of everything.
I have my share of stories as well. Do you see where I am coming from?
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 04:23 PM by whatukno
reply to post by poet1b
Hey I can't agree more that the financial institutions didn't deserve a bailout. Most Americans were against any bailout for the financial institutions to begin with. So what does congress do? They give in to pressure from Paulson and this administration and give these idiots that couldn't handle the money to begin with a bailout.
So sure as [snip] the auto industry comes in begging for money as well saying that they aren't going to make it to years end if they don't get a bailout.
The majority of Americans did not support giving them a bailout as well and our congress agreed with the majority of the American people.
So what does the auto industry do? They go over the heads of congress to this lame duck president who can't give two [snip] about what anyone thinks of him or what it would do to the struggling economy in the long run and gives auto industries a bailout anyway.
So one of the stipulations of this bailout is that the auto workers would have to make some concessions and be a little more competitive themselves and THEY DARE TO REJECT THIS IDEA?
Frankly I think that it's not the auto workers that need to be fired but the United Auto Workers union that should be sent packing. They at this point are the ones that are mainly threatening the continued welfare of these companies. The UAW is the one that is going to inevitably now cause the Big 3 to default on this government loan and it's the UAW that is going to inevitably by being so pig headed and not looking at things reasonably and taking a damn pay cut to ensure that the people that do have jobs in the auto industry are able to keep them.
I do agree that the banks are the ones that created this financial mess to begin with. Yes your right. They shouldn't have been bailed out to begin with.
The auto industry creates a product, a viable tangible product. Something useful and has actual value. (cars)
But why should I pay companies that don't build a QUALITY product to begin with for nothing? Do I get a free car out of this deal? What are the American people getting for their hard earned tax dollars out of this? An industry that builds a sub standard product? A union that is obsolete and detrimental to the people it was set up to fight for? 3 companies that will inevitably outsource these jobs to other countries anyway because of the UAW?
Oh yes UAW fight for the rights of your workers, and perhaps they can unionize the line at the unemployment office as well? Or perhaps they can take a damn pay cut and save a lot of people their jobs, then when the economy is better, they can get these hard working Americans the money they deserve. But for right now balking at taking a cut in pay to help their company survive is gross negligence on the part of the union. It's stupid, juvenile, retarded, idiotic, pathetic, asinine, stubborn, foolish, and wrong.
Hey I can't agree more that the financial institutions didn't deserve a bailout. Most Americans were against any bailout for the financial institutions to begin with. So what does congress do? They give in to pressure from Paulson and this administration and give these idiots that couldn't handle the money to begin with a bailout.
So sure as [snip] the auto industry comes in begging for money as well saying that they aren't going to make it to years end if they don't get a bailout.
The majority of Americans did not support giving them a bailout as well and our congress agreed with the majority of the American people.
So what does the auto industry do? They go over the heads of congress to this lame duck president who can't give two [snip] about what anyone thinks of him or what it would do to the struggling economy in the long run and gives auto industries a bailout anyway.
So one of the stipulations of this bailout is that the auto workers would have to make some concessions and be a little more competitive themselves and THEY DARE TO REJECT THIS IDEA?
Frankly I think that it's not the auto workers that need to be fired but the United Auto Workers union that should be sent packing. They at this point are the ones that are mainly threatening the continued welfare of these companies. The UAW is the one that is going to inevitably now cause the Big 3 to default on this government loan and it's the UAW that is going to inevitably by being so pig headed and not looking at things reasonably and taking a damn pay cut to ensure that the people that do have jobs in the auto industry are able to keep them.
I do agree that the banks are the ones that created this financial mess to begin with. Yes your right. They shouldn't have been bailed out to begin with.
The auto industry creates a product, a viable tangible product. Something useful and has actual value. (cars)
But why should I pay companies that don't build a QUALITY product to begin with for nothing? Do I get a free car out of this deal? What are the American people getting for their hard earned tax dollars out of this? An industry that builds a sub standard product? A union that is obsolete and detrimental to the people it was set up to fight for? 3 companies that will inevitably outsource these jobs to other countries anyway because of the UAW?
Oh yes UAW fight for the rights of your workers, and perhaps they can unionize the line at the unemployment office as well? Or perhaps they can take a damn pay cut and save a lot of people their jobs, then when the economy is better, they can get these hard working Americans the money they deserve. But for right now balking at taking a cut in pay to help their company survive is gross negligence on the part of the union. It's stupid, juvenile, retarded, idiotic, pathetic, asinine, stubborn, foolish, and wrong.
reply posted on 29-12-2008 @ 09:10 PM by poet1b
reply to post by whatukno
Why should we bail out the auto industry in such a time, because the other countries are bailing out their auto industries, fixing trade to their advantage, and screwing over U.S. workers in the process.
It would be very sad if we get to the point where we no longer even make our own cars because other countries have decimated our industries by subsidizing their own industries in hard times.
Maybe a better solution would be to start treating others as they treat us in the lopsided trade agreements.
Either that, or we need to do something to nuture a new rising auto industry dedicated to energy efficient vehicles that could leads us into a viable future. Certainly auto technology is ready for a leap forward. People might also want to consder that so much of the things that are made now days are made to break down to maintain demand. Clearly there is a problem with an economy that is based on creating throw away products. Once again this is a clear example that the problem isn't that we don't work hard enough, because the reality is that we over-produce what we are capable of spending. Something is clearly wrong with this picture.
In a down economic time such as this, re-inventing our nations transporation infrastructure wouldn't be such a bad thing, much better than financing foriegn wars or bailing out crooked banks. I would rather see that whole bailout funding put into creating U.S. jobs than bailing out the super rich.
[edit on 29-12-2008 by poet1b]
[edit on 29-12-2008 by poet1b]
Why should we bail out the auto industry in such a time, because the other countries are bailing out their auto industries, fixing trade to their advantage, and screwing over U.S. workers in the process.
It would be very sad if we get to the point where we no longer even make our own cars because other countries have decimated our industries by subsidizing their own industries in hard times.
Maybe a better solution would be to start treating others as they treat us in the lopsided trade agreements.
Either that, or we need to do something to nuture a new rising auto industry dedicated to energy efficient vehicles that could leads us into a viable future. Certainly auto technology is ready for a leap forward. People might also want to consder that so much of the things that are made now days are made to break down to maintain demand. Clearly there is a problem with an economy that is based on creating throw away products. Once again this is a clear example that the problem isn't that we don't work hard enough, because the reality is that we over-produce what we are capable of spending. Something is clearly wrong with this picture.
In a down economic time such as this, re-inventing our nations transporation infrastructure wouldn't be such a bad thing, much better than financing foriegn wars or bailing out crooked banks. I would rather see that whole bailout funding put into creating U.S. jobs than bailing out the super rich.
[edit on 29-12-2008 by poet1b]
[edit on 29-12-2008 by poet1b]
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