America Concedes

I have to say that I am on the side of leaving with at least a measure of victory. At the very least, Iraq is no longer run by a single dictatorship under a genocidal maniac with dreams of dominating the entire middle east.

Certainly things are not all calm and peace, but that is the price of growth. The US fought against the Indians, British, Mexicans, and itself before becoming a completely self governing country. There are plenty that fear change and will fight against it.

Regardless of the master plan and grand schemes going on, this is progress. In time, I would hope that the new government will find its place and its respect among the people of Iraq. However, just like there are militants and dissidence in the US even today, there will be those that never agree with the new era of Iraqi reality.

As to pulling troops out for relocation, Obama said all too many times during the election race about going into Pakistan to continue dealing with the global terrorist threat. I would think that Afghanistan and Pakistan are the next duty stations for our world police (aka US military).

Originally posted by West Coast

US troop casualties to hostile attacks are now less than 10 per month, a dramatic improvement from as much as 100 deaths per month in the past. If a country of 25 million people were against the presence of US troops, why are only 8-10 US troops being killed per month? Many troops report not having had to fire their guns even once in the last 90 days.

That right there says it's time to leave and our military has completed their job successfully!

The US military was not designed to "police" a country, it was designed to fight wars, to protect our country, and our citizens.

It is obvious the war is over in Iraq!

Time to bring our troops home!

Originally posted by badgerprints
Question

We still have hundreds of thousands of troops stationed on hundreds of bases around the world. Some of these still in Japan, Germany, Korea - countries we fought. Why are they pulling out so early in the game? What are they planning on doing with those 150000 troops? Think they want to send them somewhere else?
Hmmmmm?

Maybe they are planing on using them right here at home.

I have said it since the beginning of the war, This is my generations Vietnam send people to fight and accomplish a little more than killing people.

[edit on 25-12-2008 by Ant4AU]

Time will tell if this will be marked as a victory. If Iraq devolves into a civil war, then we left too soon. If it remains intact it was a victory.

This point it's neither a concession, a win, nor a defeat. It is simply just out America's hands.

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

I only see massive failures and the worst is still to come!

That is because you hope for failure, you emphasize only bad news while ignoring good news...

[edit on 25-12-2008 by West Coast]

I hope for failure?

Either you are a deluded individual or a puppet mouthpiece.....

You need to stop believing what others tell you and learn to start thinking for yoursef. How old are you?

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should know that freedom cannot be forced upon anyone that doesn't want it! Also there is no country in the middle east with the exception of israel and turkey that have anything resembling democracy.

So why make an exception of iraq? The answer is very simple: (1)Sadam stopped taking orders from the west and thus was deemed a "threat". (2)The bush administration knew it would be a quick and easy win due to the fact that sadam only controlled 30 of the entire iraqi population. (3)The restructuring process would generate billions for the military industrial complex. (4)Put pressure on iran to "play ball with the west".

Perhaps there are more reasons but these are easy to figure out.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by EarthCitizen07]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
I hope for failure?

Either you are a deluded individual or a puppet mouthpiece.....

You need to stop believing what others tell you and learn to start thinking for yoursef. How old are you?

Address specific points if you want to rise to the minimum IQ that I require in a debate with me. Funny how you ignored the hard cold facts I provided by brushing them off as propaganda figures, while not providing facts yourself. That to me is very hypocritical.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense should know that freedom cannot be forced upon anyone that doesn't want it!

Freedom is not being forced, but embraced by individual Iraqis. Again, if a country of 25 million people were against the US presence, then why are so few US soldiers dieing as a result?

Also there is no country in the middle east with the exception of israel and turkey that have anything resembling democracy.

Which should be even more of a reason to celebrate the recent successes in Iraq.

Europe of 1900 was just as unsuitable for democracy as the Middle East of today. The history of Europe from 1600 to 1945 is just as warlike and dysfunctional as the ME today. A start has to be made for democracy to take hold in the ME, Iraq is that start.

So why make an exception of iraq? The answer is very simple: (1)Sadam stopped taking orders from the west and thus was deemed a "threat". (2)The bush administration knew it would be a quick and easy win due to the fact that sadam only controlled 30 of the entire iraqi population. (3)The restructuring process would generate billions for the military industrial complex. (4)Put pressure on iran to "play ball with the west".

Speculation is moot...

Regime change in Iraq was official US policy before Bush came into office. A guy name Clinton came up with that... Establishing democracy in Iraq WAS the initial intent, going all the way back to the Iraq Resolution of 1998. That was the goal of the US government all along.

Perhaps there are more reasons but these are easy to figure out.

It is one thing to oppose the war due to cost, or regret that we went in, or the loss of life. These are reasonable positions that should be respected. However, it is quite another thing to hope for failure, to emphasize only bad news while ignoring good news, to excuse or even defend terrorists, and to condemn those who wants a positive outcome.




[edit on 26-12-2008 by West Coast]

reply to post by West Coast


A "war" based on lies and greed is hardly a noble cause.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction bush and blair argued was a reason for an imminent, preemptive strike? None was provided!

Yes many innocent americans and iraqis died for no good reason and yes many billions of dollars went to the military industrial complex.

And you keep insisting that "I hope for failure", "emphasize the negative", "ignore the positive(as though there is something to be chearful of) and even went as far as saying "I support terrorists"....very bizarre, childish behavior on your part!!!

Sadam himself was a weapon of mass destruction. How many were killed because of him. I for one am thankful they didn’t find “wmd’ because had he had any he would of used them.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

A "war" based on lies and greed is hardly a noble cause.

People lie and do greedy things daily, this is what truly makes us human.

Where are the weapons of mass destruction bush and blair argued was a reason for an imminent, preemptive strike? None was provided!

The Intel was faulty, Bush admitted that. Need I remind you that several other nations thought Saddam had the goods too? What more do you want from him? Again, if Bush was the liar your morons take him for, then why didn't he simply plant WMD's in Iraq so they could then be found?

Yes many innocent americans and iraqis died for no good reason

Innocent people died for no good reason under Saddam too...

Iraq and American deaths are down, and Iraq is moving forward. These are positive signs. Why are you so reluctant to admit this?

As a result of this conflict, Iraq has a significantly brighter future now. All signs point to this.

and yes many billions of dollars went to the military industrial complex.

What is wrong with having a strong capable military? That is one of the few areas American tax payer money is best spent.

And you keep insisting that "I hope for failure", "emphasize the negative", "ignore the positive(as though there is something to be chearful of) and even went as far as saying "I support terrorists"....very bizarre, childish behavior on your part!!!

You fall into the other tactic of those who want to minimize the progress in Iraq. You compare Iraq to a utopia, better than any country that exists in the world. Until Iraq is wealthier than Norway, and with a lower murder rate than Iceland, and with 100% employment, it is a failure.

Until you are able to discuss and debate actual data, you will not have provided anything of merit here.


[edit on 28-12-2008 by West Coast]