If the soul of a person leaves the body at death with the last exhalation of breath, when do you think the soul enters the body?

Each female is born with their full complement of ova of which at most 20 may reach fruition as a live birth, although as a median more likely 2 or 3 - do you think that the woman is responsible for murder when she menstruates?

Personally, I do not like the use of late abortion in women, but if the woman's life is in danger, then I would support it. As to abortion in the first trimester, why not....it is the woman who is left to raise the child in most cases. Adoption is not great - I grew up in the days when large numbers of children were adopted out, and very few were happy and balanced as a result. The worst was when the first child was adopted, and unexpectedly the adoptive parents then went on to have their own biological offspring. One of my classmates was deliberately emotionally abused and disfavoured resulting in a very poor self image as a result of this. Another I knew from primary school grew up bitter and twisted getting kicks out of harming defenceless animals including dragging his own dog behind his ute tied by a rope - the dog must have suffered terribly. For this the young man was imprisoned for 6 months and that was the last I heard of him.

It is my belief that the soul enters the body at the same time life begins; at the moment of conception.
I hate abortion. It is murder of the innocents.
And for those who can't believe in the concept of a soul, consider this. We have aborted the generation that would have saved social security. We have aborted the doctor who would have found the cure for Lou Gerhig's Disease. We have aborted the mathmatician who would have worked out the formula that would have allowed us to work out the mechanics of faster than light travel.
And these were not done for the health of the mother. It was done for convience and birth control.

Originally posted by Nineteen
If the soul of a person leaves the body at death with the last exhalation of breath, when do you think the soul enters the body?

Each female is born with their full complement of ova of which at most 20 may reach fruition as a live birth, although as a median more likely 2 or 3 - do you think that the woman is responsible for murder when she menstruates?

No human knows WHEN the soul enters.............

It is silly to consider menstruation as abortion because conception has not happened.......

In your post you repeat all the silly crap that allows women to justify murder of their own children............

You demand the "right" of a woman to murder her own child. The only issue is "time"..........when...........if the child is born you call it murder, before birth its a "choice"? Is that really your argument?

Abortion should be covered completely by medicare, and all women should have equal access to it, however, it must be during the first trimester only, preferably at 6 weeks, and not much later. At 20 weeks, preemies can live, and in fact the only reason they don't sooner is lung power, not brain power. Killing any child that can live is murder, 100%. And they take these babies out in pieces. I don't believe in abortion in the later stage even for health reasons, because now its the life of two or more hanging in the balance.



[edit on 12-12-2008 by mystiq]

ok so if the woman keeps this child then weres the father does he not have a right to look after this child, why is it always the woman why should she suffer while he goes on as normal.
and what about rape victims, they didnt ask for it they were not consenting, hence the word rape.
do these women not have a right.
i do not agree with using abortion as a form of contraceptive that is just stupid.

what about a woman who gets pregnant, who can barely feed herself or care for herself, is the child better off like this living in povety.
or a child that is clearly not wanted so is abused and not cared for properly.
and also if all the fetus where born not aborted then surely the world would be over populated.

i dont think anyone has the right to judge these women to treat them all the same, some women have very good reasons to abort like a fetus that is extremely disabled and if born would live a like of suffering and pain.

i could go on but this subject angers me how anyone can preach how these women will go to hell and judged.
please

The only reason most people are for abortion is because sex is such fun.
This is the most irresponsible and unethical approach to sentient beings.

And the argumentation whether embryos have soul strongly resembles the older, but not so old, argumentation like:
Do Africans (or the enslaved in general) have soul?
Do Jews, Slavs and Roma deserve to live in an Aryan world?

Don't be naive, this abortion hoax is a permanent drill to make you accept such trivial but effective method of mind/will control.

Originally posted by kerrichin
ok so if the woman keeps this child then weres the father does he not have a right to look after this child, why is it always the woman why should she suffer while he goes on as normal.

The rest of your reply becomes void after such a horrid answer in the first sentence.........

When does it become suffering to bring life??????? This is a horrible and selfish attitude.

I have been a single parent for 20 years now. Yes, I am the father. The ex was abusive in every way possible. A jury after 7 days of trial awarded me sole custody.

Again, it would appear mankind has progressed little in the last 4000 years...........The entire "womens" side seems to be based on being inconvienienced by a living child........they would rather kill it and send it to the fires..........

What is the difference then between 4000years ago and today? God even sent HIS son to get mankind to change, yet, children are still sacrificed to make the parents happy in some way..........

Lev 18:

28That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

29For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

30Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Is the LAND about to spew america out for these abominations?

So because we don't when a soul enters or when the baby/fetus/human becomes aware and is a person, we kill it??? We don't know, then we kill it. So very sad. Just reading the details of a partial birth abortion makes me want to vomit.

i think your problem is not with abortion but with women.

me im all for equality including for men, black white women or religion.

you say that there can not be suffering if it brings life go say that to a starving african child, or a homeless person or the child being sexually abused or even the person who can not pay their bills and is being evicted soon.

i am a firm believer that there is no hell whenwe die because i see it everyday.
not every life is good, and happy.

i know a poster said that think of all the inventors and such aborted never to live but i could say the same for all the hitlers and saddams that have not been born

Originally posted by kettlebellysmith
It is my belief that the soul enters the body at the same time life begins; at the moment of conception.
I hate abortion. It is murder of the innocents.
And for those who can't believe in the concept of a soul, consider this. We have aborted the generation that would have saved social security. We have aborted the doctor who would have found the cure for Lou Gerhig's Disease. We have aborted the mathmatician who would have worked out the formula that would have allowed us to work out the mechanics of faster than light travel.
And these were not done for the health of the mother. It was done for convience and birth control.

We have also aborted Murderers, Rapists, Thieves, Child Molesters etc.

The only thing abortion murders is potential. You are condemning abortion because it has killed great scientists who don't exist and who may never exist. If we are to believe that man (ie the soul of a man) has the potential to be good or evil then those great men you just highlighted could just have easily been the worst serial killers of all time.

I think i remember someone using the phrase Ad Hitlerum as a term for the logical fallacy you've basically just used the opposite of.

In order for you to justify your condemnation of abortion you had to create fictional people who were adversely affected by it. It cannot be said what may come of a person who was aborted...


Perhaps it was "god's will" that allowed them to be aborted, some people believe it is god's will that loved ones be taken by cancer or car accidents, so why would man suddenly be able to subvert his divine will?

God's wrath and judgement are soon to come......

Helios, Pretending to know the mind of God is a very dangerous undertaking.

And I don't need your help in telling ME what to think or do or believe.

Mind your own business is my advice.





[edit on 12-12-2008 by whaaa]

Genesis2, verse 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

On what grounds can you lay claim that the soul enters the body at conception?

Originally posted by whaaa

God's wrath and judgement are soon to come......

Helios, Pretending to know the mind of God is a very dangerous undertaking.
And I don't need your help in telling ME what to think or do or believe.
Mind your own business is my advice.
[edit on 12-12-2008 by whaaa]

How about the several books of the bible all saying God's wrath is to come at the end-of-time? Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Revelations, Mathew, Mark, Luke, etc, etc, etc.....God has told us many times what is on HIS mind. How to DO his will.............

I am not telling YOu of anyone else WHAT to think or DO, Only what God says to DO and how to think............pretty much that is the whole idea of the bible........it's your choice to ignore HIM........

Originally posted by heliosprime

Originally posted by whaaa

God's wrath and judgement are soon to come......

Helios, Pretending to know the mind of God is a very dangerous undertaking.
And I don't need your help in telling ME what to think or do or believe.
Mind your own business is my advice.
[edit on 12-12-2008 by whaaa]

How about the several books of the bible all saying God's wrath is to come at the end-of-time? Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Revelations, Mathew, Mark, Luke, etc, etc, etc.....God has told us many times what is on HIS mind. How to DO his will.............

I am not telling YOu of anyone else WHAT to think or DO, Only what God says to DO and how to think............pretty much that is the whole idea of the bible........it's your choice to ignore HIM........

People wrote those books, not god.

No one knows god's will.

[edit on 12/14/2008 by eNumbra]

Originally posted by heliosprime


How about the several books of the bible all saying God's wrath is to come at the end-of-time? Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Revelations, Mathew, Mark, Luke, etc, etc, etc.....God has told us many times what is on HIS mind. How to DO his will.............

How about the Old Testament.....Isn't that God telling us his will and direction?.....What's on HIS mind....How to DO his will...

Do you follow the tenants set forth in the Old Testament?? ex. Human Sacrifice and the sacrificial ritual of killing animals in Gods name. Please read Lev. 1:9 Sanctioned female slavery, please read Exodus 21:7

Hypocrite!! Do you just pick and chose what is convenient to believe in and follow? Taking the easy path so to speak. It's your choice to ignore him.

When did God say that it's OK to ignore what he directed mankind to do in the Old Testament?


Why is the Old Testament not Gods word anymore but the KJV is?

Does that make any sense?

Either the BIBLE is Gods word [all of it] or none of it is.











[edit on 14-12-2008 by whaaa]

We have also aborted Murderers, Rapists, Thieves, Child Molesters etc.

A quote that should be repeated; however, I will go one step further. A belief in psychology is that childhood stress helps lead to mental disorders, and extreme childhood stress is a precursor to Antisocial Personality Disorder (Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, Gacy, Manson, the worst of the worst), so to force millions of people to have children they cannot support or plain old don't want is a welcome mat for more societal problems.

See, pro-lifers only always consider the QUANTITY of life and not the QUALITY of life. There are over 3 million abortions PER YEAR in the U.S. alone, while only between 1 and 2 million people waiting to adopt, so how long would it take before we have a mass orphanage problem on our hands? Compare it with the overpopulated prison population of which there are only 3 million people.

Forcing people to have children they don't want or cannot support would cause all kinds of problems, and adoption obviously is only a VERY temporary fix, but the pro-lifers out there, once again don't consider any of this, only quantity.

Originally posted by bigbert81

We have also aborted Murderers, Rapists, Thieves, Child Molesters etc.

A quote that should be repeated; however, I will go one step further. A belief in psychology is that childhood stress helps lead to mental disorders, and extreme childhood stress is a precursor to Antisocial Personality Disorder (Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, Gacy, Manson, the worst of the worst), so to force millions of people to have children they cannot support or plain old don't want is a welcome mat for more societal problems.

See, pro-lifers only always consider the QUANTITY of life and not the QUALITY of life. There are over 3 million abortions PER YEAR in the U.S. alone, while only between 1 and 2 million people waiting to adopt, so how long would it take before we have a mass orphanage problem on our hands? Compare it with the overpopulated prison population of which there are only 3 million people.

Forcing people to have children they don't want or cannot support would cause all kinds of problems, and adoption obviously is only a VERY temporary fix, but the pro-lifers out there, once again don't consider any of this, only quantity.

everything you said is so true, whats worse for a child than knowing that they are not wanted or not being cared for.
its not just pysically caring for them but nurchuring them mentally.
ive give you a star on your comment.

I wonder, that heliosprime is antiabortion, how many kids has he/she adopted?

Is it a case of do as I say; not do as I do?

The whole business of "choice" takes on a whole new meaning when confronted with reality; Dosen't it?

Does "cast the first stone" ring a bell? God this "holier than thou" attitude get old.