America needs to finally adopt the metric system.

That is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. How is that the same situation? If I go to another country, I can't expect for them to adapt to me. But I shouldn't have to adopt another countries customs in my own country. If you want my stuff or you want my help. You are just going to have to speak my language to get it. You are the one wanting. I shouldn't have to blindly adapt to you.

We wouldn't switch to conform, we would switch because it's just something we need to do. Other countries didn't switch to metric because they were "conforming." It isn't a sign of weakness to adopt the metric system.

The world does so many things we do. Should we stop using planes because most other countries do does and that's "conforming?" Of course not. In fact, a lot of common inventions we have in America came from other countries.

• Karl Benz of Germany created the first commercial automobile
  
• Alexander Graham Bell, one of the pioneers of the telephone, was born in Scotland and lived in Canada for some time
  
• China invented the compass
  
• Mailboxes were used in Europe before gaining popularity in America
  

If I go to another country, I can't expect for them to adapt to me.

Sure you can. For example, if you go to Japan expect people to practice their English with you and expect to see English signage everywhere. People in other countries are very tolerant.

[edit on 12-2-2009 by Totakeke]

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. So far, the only REAL reason you've given for this "need" to switch to metric is that the rest of the world does it. Well so what? Why does that mean we "need" to switch?

I'm not going to argue over ease, because that gets us nowhere.

I know things that we use every day have come from other countries. That's not the issue. What you're wanting to do is to change the ENTIRE way the whole country measures things. Why? Because the rest of the world does it.

There's no logical reason to spend all that money on something we don't need with the way the countries financial situation is going. It's absolutely ridiculous to be worrying about the measurement system.

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
reply to post by rookhouse

 

You're wrong about the Tablespoons, the conversion calculator you used must have screwed up or something. You said that the recipe accounted for 5 servings and that you were trying to make food for 10 people so you'd have to double 2/3 of a cup to 1 1/3 cups. Also, because you can't have .33 tablespoons, you have to break it into teaspoons at the end.

My measurement there was correct; I got the one with the mile wrong because I didn't read it right and I thought you asked about feet, not yards. My bad.

Plus, if I was cooking and my measuring cup was dirty, I'd probably just wash it out. Why be dumb about it and start using tablespoons?

As far as the converting issue with totakeke(I am aware that this is probably spelled wrong):

You DO convert with metric. I've used it. You simply convert it in a different way.

That being said, I will not switch over to metric. America doesn't need to and the argument that the rest of the world does it is ridiculous because no country needs to do anything just because other countries are doing it.

Actually, you got the question mixed up again. The exact wording of the question was you were making "pancakes for 5 people from a recipe that feeds 10 people". So you would need to take half of 2/3cup and convert to tablespoons.

My point is that in order to answer the question you first needed to 1) know or find the conversion factor [which varies between units of length, area, and volume in the USCS] and 2) be able to calculate the answer by multiplying or dividing by these irregular factors.

Normally, BOTH of these steps are significantly more difficult when using the USCS. Are you really arguing that this factual statement is untrue and both systems have the same level of difficulty? You've said you have used the metric system, but have you used it exclusively? Have you halved a recipe or spread grass seed entirely using metric units? Or have you just converted between Metric and English?

Many people don't consider it "converting" when switching between metric units because the two steps outlined above are so easy. Is glancing a cliffs notes the same as studying? - not really. Is walking to the fridge considered exercising? - not really.

Is switching between cm and km considered converting?

reply to post by FredT


fools, you dont have half a litre, you have a litre, your being short changed with tiny pints, your lucky you never had the english old money, now that was confusing, try to fathom that out, decimal is much better

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. So far, the only REAL reason you've given for this "need" to switch to metric is that the rest of the world does it. Well so what? Why does that mean we "need" to switch?

I'm not going to argue over ease, because that gets us nowhere.

I know things that we use every day have come from other countries. That's not the issue. What you're wanting to do is to change the ENTIRE way the whole country measures things. Why? Because the rest of the world does it.

There's no logical reason to spend all that money on something we don't need with the way the countries financial situation is going. It's absolutely ridiculous to be worrying about the measurement system.

Before we end the discussion on ease, can you at least admit that the Metric system may be slightly easier to use?

I previously gave these four reasons for the switch to metric:
Coherent (easy for anyone to learn)
Universal (used by 90% of worlds population)
Legal (congressional power to dictate)
Planned (designed not collected)

The fifth I want to add is:
Economical (makes America competitive)

According to numerous private and congressional studies, the continued use of both systems cost the US trillions a year and makes American products and workers compete at a disadvantage on the world market. These studies conclude that the switch to metric is already occurring (60% of US industries are already primarily metric), that at some point in the future the US public will be entirely metric, and that a well planned conversion to the SI is far more desirable than the slow drawn out process of conversion that could take another 50-100 years. This is about economics and US jobs!

reply to post by Ahabstar


you realy do not understand the metric system that we use and talk rubbish, no offence meant, hectare 10,000 square meters,

millimeter, mil as in 1000 as in millenium
centimeter, cent as in 100 as in century

you already use it and you dont even know it, i use both, metric is far simpler, i had the same reservations when we (england) converted, but trust me the old way sucks balls

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. So far, the only REAL reason you've given for this "need" to switch to metric is that the rest of the world does it. Well so what? Why does that mean we "need" to switch?

I'm not going to argue over ease, because that gets us nowhere.

I know things that we use every day have come from other countries. That's not the issue. What you're wanting to do is to change the ENTIRE way the whole country measures things. Why? Because the rest of the world does it.

There's no logical reason to spend all that money on something we don't need with the way the countries financial situation is going. It's absolutely ridiculous to be worrying about the measurement system.

No, the real reason to switch is because metric is easier and more logical. Why else would science and medicine use it? Because it's exact, logical, and isn't as error-prone. Scientists and engineers can't be bothered with fractions of an inch that have denominators like 64, 128, etc.

You're making it sound expensive. The truth is, the United States government will be pouring about $800 billion into the economy very soon. That will be used for schools, programs, etc. It would take a negligible amount of money to switch some road signs and create a few TV commercials similar to the digital television ones. And once we've converted, we'll actually gain money. Companies that have gone metric often report a five to ten percent increase in profits.

I will give you this and only this: the metric system MAY be considered easier to use by some people. However, for a lot of people it is more complicated.

Secondly, it would be expensive. I don't support the stimulus or any of that, fact is, it won't help. Again, you bring up the "universal" argument, when really that's not an argument at all because that is not a reason to switch to anything.

You may consider it easier to learn. I have tried to teach this to people when I tutored kids from school for volunteer work. It's not really easier to learn, you keep going on and on about how it's "precise", but really there's just a reference point of difference here.

You have to learn just as many "units" (I'm talking about prefixes here) and you have to know the difference between prefixes to know how many decimal places to move over.

It's unnecessary to switch over, plus, our money flow shouldn't solely depend on the business we could get from other countries. We should start producing more of our own products and encouraging consumers to buy products made in America.

We lose business for stupid reasons. I know a guy that went to Japan and bought 2 Harleys for the price of one. It was cheaper to buy them there, have them shipped here and have them assembled than to buy one bike in America.

I will give you this and only this: the metric system MAY be considered easier to use by some people. However, for a lot of people it is more complicated.

96% of the world uses this system, I don't see how it's so complicated. People just think it's complicated because they don't know it. I've taught some of my friends how to use the metric system and they all agree it's much easier. Which is easier to remember, that there are 1 000 meters in a kilometer or 5 280 feet in a mile? Many Americans don't even know how many feet are in a mile.

You may consider it easier to learn. I have tried to teach this to people when I tutored kids from school for volunteer work. It's not really easier to learn, you keep going on and on about how it's "precise", but really there's just a reference point of difference here.

Let's say you're working with manufacturing and you need extremely small measurements. What do you do, use fractions like 17/64ths or nice decimals like 6.746875 millimeters? This is why industries dealing with extremely small values, (again) like the computer processor industry. Fractions feign precision that they don't have, on top of being cumbersome. Inches (even mils, thousandths of an inch) can only measure so much. Past that point it requires the use of extremely small divisions of the meter.

You have to learn just as many "units" (I'm talking about prefixes here) and you have to know the difference between prefixes to know how many decimal places to move over.

This is why I really think you haven't used metric. The metric system has only seven base units, of which you only need to learn three (meter, liter, gram). It also has six basic prefixes: kilo-, hecto-, deca-, deci-, centi-, and milli-. These work on every unit. And to reduce the number even more, the only prefixes people use in daily life are kilo, centi, and milli. This makes only six new words that people have to learn. It's not complicated. All you have to do is memorize a phrase, "Kids Have Dropped (over) Dead Converting Metric" and you have all of the prefixes right there.

It's unnecessary to switch over, plus, our money flow shouldn't solely depend on the business we could get from other countries. We should start producing more of our own products and encouraging consumers to buy products made in America.

Without trade from other countries the United States would be broke. We're more connected with other countries now than we ever have been. International trade would be much easier if we were all using the same units.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Totakeke]

But we shouldn't be so connected. It wouldn't be this bad if we had maybe kept some of our products actually completely made in America. We'd have a hell of a lot more jobs too.

Now, what I really find insulting is that you keep telling me that I haven't used that stupid system and I have. Too many times to count. I hate it and it annoys me. I have tried teaching it to people, some get it, most don't.

Listen, I've used metric. I don't like it. I know that I'm not alone on that and I know that there are more people that will refuse to switch more adamantly than I. I don't care if you're using it in science and medicine, go right ahead.

That doesn't mean that mine, or anyone elses, day to day lives should be forced to fit into a dumb system that is unnecessary for use on a regular basis.

Keep metric in science.

Keep it out of my kitchen and off my roads.

Now, what I really find insulting is that you keep telling me that I haven't used that stupid system and I have. Too many times to count. I hate it and it annoys me. I have tried teaching it to people, some get it, most don't. Listen, I've used metric. I don't like it. I know that I'm not alone on that and I know that there are more people that will refuse to switch more adamantly than I. I don't care if you're using it in science and medicine, go right ahead. That doesn't mean that mine, or anyone elses, day to day lives should be forced to fit into a dumb system that is unnecessary for use on a regular basis.

Which is dumber, a system based on 10s or a system based on King Henry's foot? Metric works for science and it works for medicine, but it can also work in daily life. There's a reason why chemists aren't mixing chemicals with pints and quarts, and there's a reason why people in Europe drive with kilometers.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Totakeke]

A pattern does not make anything more "intelligent" or more precise. All I'm saying is: I don't care if science uses metric...I don't care if it is used in medicine. There is a place for metric, and that is the place. The average person doesn't need to use the system.

Could you tell me why other countries switched then? If metric is so horrible, why is everyone using it? Why do scientists, engineers, and 6 240 000 000 regular people use it? Highway speed is 100 km/h, 10 degrees Celsius is cool, the average male weighs about 50 to 90 kilograms. Perfectly fine for daily life.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Totakeke]

The average person doesn't need to use the system.

reply to post by TasteTheMagick


I agree. Also it is very easy for the average person to use and understand both systems. 2.2 lb/ kg 1.6 km/mile 3.3 yard/ meter I use these daily in my work.

Are humans so closed minded? What is difficult about a parallel system? There's only one!

It is pretty easy to convert between the 2 systems and also kind of fun!

But how often is it easy to convert? Parallel systems are pointless. Why have multiple ways to measure length? It's superfluous. And once you start using the English system with very large or very small numbers, converting becomes a problem (you wouldn't have to convert with the metric system). Number of yards in 20 miles? Cubic inches in 3.7 gallons? Pointless.

Compare it to electricity. We don't still burn candles for light because we have electricity. Using two systems is like flipping on a light switch to find some matches to light a candle. Two systems just makes things more complicated.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Totakeke]

Number of yards in 20 miles? Cubic inches in 3.7 gallons? Pointless

reply to post by Totakeke


The point is, my friend that if you could have an open mind (and exercise it) like we do. Then you could use both systems easily.

You are asking 350,000,000 people to suddenly convert to your rather strange (to us) system?

I understand your point. You're preaching to the choir in that respect.

For your edification I might add that:

All humans have a very limited ability to understand the value systems of other humans. Very limited. We simply do not understand our neighbors.

You or I will never change that basic human quality.

We will, however, go on trying! Always!

The point is, my friend that if you could have an open mind (and exercise it) like we do. Then you could use both systems easily. You are asking 350,000,000 people to suddenly convert to your rather strange (to us) system?

I can use both systems fine. In fact, I'm forced to on a daily basis (I use metric personally and have to use English everywhere else). Some of those people, like the teachers, scientists, doctors, and students are familiar with metric; it isn't strange to them. And it's not like we'd suddenly switch without telling anyone. People would know, and they'd know how to use the metric system. People are already familiar with certain metric measures, like 2 liter bottles of soda.

It isn't an issue of open-mindedness, it's an issue of logic. Using two systems is pointless and dangerous. People get overdosed and underdosed fairly frequently because of measuring mistakes. For example, an infant almost died because the pharmacist prescribed 3/4ths of a teaspoon of Zantac instead of 0.75 milliliters, which was the correct dosage. (3/4ths of a teaspoon is about 3.7 milliliters). Luckily the mistake was realized.

[edit on 14-2-2009 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by TasteTheMagick
But we shouldn't be so connected. It wouldn't be this bad if we had maybe kept some of our products actually completely made in America. We'd have a hell of a lot more jobs too.

Maybe so, but is American consumers willing to pay everything they are used to buy from abroad (mainly China) 30 to 40% more, if it is made in USA?

And that does not even include, getting an inferior product, in several cases.

There is just no way, that digital cameras, plasma TV and countless other products could ever be produced in the USA, at a profit.

Originally posted by Totakeke
Why do scientists, engineers, and 6 240 000 000 regular people use it?

Simple, they are not Americans, they don't have the "super power" mentality preventing them to adopt something "not invented here".

That is what it boiled down to.

Using two systems is pointless and dangerous. People get overdosed and underdosed fairly frequently because of measuring mistakes. For example, an infant almost died because the pharmacist prescribed 3/4ths of a teaspoon of Zantac instead of 0.75 milliliters, which was the correct dosage. (3/4ths of a

reply to post by Totakeke


I agree with you there. The reason you and I can use both systems easily is because of education meaning we studied and practiced both systems.

I think both systems should be covered more by all at the high school level. Maybe then Americans could be nudged into accepting metric. However, with our dumbed down school systems, unmotivated students and lack of parental involvement, I doubt that could happen.

Kinda funny. I'm a vet and in vet med we use the English systems for dogs and cats and the metric for all the smaller animals and exotics. Birds and snakes, for instance are all weighed and dosed in metric. Personel unfamiliar with the system think its wierd. I guess it's easier to weigh a parakeet on a gram scale!