Has ATS become too mainstream, a member discussion.

Hey folks, we recently were privy to a terrific "speed debate" in the debate forum between two of our strongest fighters semperfortis and Skyfloating.

The debate topic was: ATS Has Become Too Mainstream

Before you share your opinions in this thread I highly encourage you to read through the debate first, keeping in mind that fighters are assigned positions by the debate moderator and those positions do not necessarily reflect their own real life opinions.

After a little soul searching and some much needed encouragement by staff members I came to the conclusion that it is only fair that this question be put before the membership at large so that we all may have the opportunity to chime in on the subject.

So what do you think, has ATS become too mainstream?

One thing to keep in mind is that we just went through an election cycle which brought an increase of more mainstream political topics into the fold. With the US elections being over ATS has resumed it's, for a lack of a better term, natural path. I believe the discussion should focus on our present position along that path and whether you believe that somewhere along the way, via the nature of member contributions and engagement, we have compromised our "alternative" identity and might have embraced a more "mainstream" one.

ATS mission statement:

AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics" such as conspiracies, UFO's, paranormal, secret societies, political scandals, new world order, terrorism, and dozens of related topics with an impressive demographic mix of members.

I for one cannot deny that ATS is still the internet's greatest repository of alternative discussion and information. I, after doing some research into some of the older threads, also cannot deny that mainstream topics have been on the increase over the last couple of years. That doesn't necessarily mean these mainstream threads have replaced alternative ones, it just means that the overall balance has started to shift towards the mainstream.

Ultimately we are all equally responsible for the content of ATS. These kind of identity shifts are usually not a result of any overt act, they are a result of nuanced and sometimes imperceptible actions or lack thereof. One of the interesting points discussed in the aforementioned debate is the status of the very popular "Breaking Alternative News" forum. The argument can be made, and one that I actually agree with, is that too many threads that because of their mainstream nature actually belong in the "General Breaking News" forum in BTS and for some reason aren't being moved there. I am as guilty as anyone in this regard, for example I recently started a thread in that forum about the F-18 crash in San Diego. Truth is, that whilst the story generated a degree of interest, it was in no way alternative.

I don't envy the moderators who have to work the "Breaking Alternative News" or "BAN" forum. After all "alternative" is such a subjective term and many of the seemingly mainstream threads which now reside within it could always be approached from a conspiracy angle.

So where does one draw the line between mainstream and alternative?

I really look forward to having this discussion in what I hope will be a thoughtful and courteous context.

In the end, no matter which side of this debate any of us may stand on the original adage is always the correct one. We the members are ultimately in control of, and responsible for, the content generated within ATS and BTS. The admin and the staff can guide and moderate till they're blue in the face, but if through our contributions we keep insisting on generating more mainstream subject matters, this existing shift in identity to the mainstream will only gain momentum.

All I propose by creating this thread is that we pause for a moment, step back, and gain some awareness of the larger picture from a macro point of view. There really is no right and wrong here, all that is required is a reconciliation between what we think we are, ought to be, and what actually is.

Actually I believe the truth is that the alternative is becoming more mainstream. Looking through TV listing lately can net a variety of shows featuring topics ranging from UFOs, paranormal, occult, cryptozology, etc. Truth as I see it is, if ATS is to be more alternative, well, we'll need to dig deeper.

The why, as I see it simple: Uncertain times. The same trend can be seen in the mid to late 70's when I was growing up, nurturing my imagination. In fact, I'd say my interest stems directly from that exposure.

But I think this is a wonderful thing. Drawing mainstream attention to alternative topics can only net greater quantities of information in the long run. On the other hand, it does also net a greater amount of potential garbage. But that's the nature of growth in that there will always be waste left over.

I believe that in some areas, such as the NWO, more and more people are realizing that this is not just some "nut case" topic that people discuss, but a strong reality. It is hard to look at what has happened in the world in the last year, and NOT believe that there is truth to the "NWO" theory, regardless of what you call it. The fact that in the US, the two party system has completely broken down, and is now merged into one "Party of the Corporations, By the Corporations, and For the Corporations" makes it easy to conclude that there is a great conspiracy to head towards a NWO. Combine that with the EU, and other new alliances, and it is almost considered mainstream news.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


To be honest I found during my time as a member that 90% of conspiracy theory's are bunk for a number of reasons . What I see a lot of the time is people disbelieving what they regard as the official line on what happened during an event and are perfectly willing to believe what ever is put foward by crack pot sources on the internet .

So just who is sheeples ?
Clearly its not the people who are willing to examine an issue on a rational basis and work on the basis of logical reasoning if not actual evidence.

The other pattern I have often en counted is that no matter the lack of evidence to back up claims and the fact that logical and rational thinking is against a idea the members in question will continue to believe what ever is going . A good example of some of what I am talking about can be found here .

A general knowledge of history and my friend Don ability to articulate ideas better then I can left the conspiracy theorists with no leg stand on which lead them to bringing out the much over used sheeples label .

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Good thread. Thanks for giving us a place to discuss it. Sky and Semper's debate was a great read and it's nice to now be able to share our two cents.

Although I've only been here a year, the easiest way to express my opinion is to say it has not become too mainstream but has simply become more mainstream.

And that isn't a bad thing at all. The site, as policy, leans towards the alternative and conspiratorial side so it's not that ATS has sold out or anything along those lines. It's just due to larger membership that of course would attract more skeptics or mainstream thinkers. In my humble opinion, the mixed bag of members is what makes this site so fantastic.

The simple answer.

No.

This isn't the first time I've seen this questions posed, and I do think it has to do with this being an election year. Anytime there is a major event going on, we see membership skyrocket for a time and the boards are flooded with what so many affectionately refer to as "trolls".

With time though it dies back down and everything returns to normal. It's just the natural ebb and flow of the boards in my opinion.

After all, anyplace where people are openly discussing the activity of reptilians in society can't be too mainstream.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


i can.t compare ATS today to ATS in the past, since i am member of this site for only seven months now, so i am a kid of the ATS of today.

i highly enjoyed sky's and semper's debate, the two got both very good arguments to proof any side!

i would clearly differentiate between ATS and BTS – BTS is the general stuff, main stream or not – it is the stuff we deal with in real life: cooking, movies, and all that stuff.
but ATS is different, ATS contains the stuff that keeps my brain thinking.
i know for myself that my brain, my soul in general isn.t mainstream at all.
does that mean ATS is not mainstream? i don.t know.

but the topics i find on ATS are usually not mainstream topics: UFOs, conspiracy, paranormals ……… just take a look at the content of the board.
another proof for me that ATS is not mainstream at all: i can speak out any idea which is on my mind. ideas which would get me in real life in kind of rehab – it is quiet normal at ATS to have different ideas than the so called mainstream.
it is in the mattter of the topics you can find and discuss on ATS.

mainstream media try to devaluate people who consider lights they have seen might be UFOs, mainstream media devaluate people who belive in past lifes or in reincarnation – such people should be sent to nuthouse or at least see a shrink.

so ATS is by no means mainstream at all.
but in some ways people considering themselves to be kind of foothold of mainstream allow themselves to look beyond the edges of mainstream thinking, they become more and more aware about stuff which is quiet normal to ATS
they become aware of the lies all goverments try to tell us, they become aware that mass media poke fun at us on behalf of making money.
some might awaken and find their way to ATS with all their mainstream thinking and beliefes.

so mainstream goes ATS not ATS goes mainstream.

and we the member have to care that independent thinking which is one of the highest values of mankind, the opertunity to speak openly will always be granted in the shelter of this site.

I also am relatively new here as well. Here is my take.

I think mainstream is becoming more in tune with ATS.

I've noticed a much larger proportion of programs (on cable for example) dealing with such topics as the paranormal, 2012, and UFO's and aliens for example. Therefore I feel that more and more people in the mainstream are being exposed to viewpoints on the ATS side of things than they have in the past. Rather than be relegated to "Whacko nut jobs" viewpoints, more and more of the mainstream are becoming more and more accepting of alternative viewpoints.

I suspect that more and more of the mainstream people are opening their minds to different possibilities of thought and explanation than have been in the past. They encounter a program that intrigues them and using the net they do research on whatever interests them. A large amount of the questing minds ends up here.

Since this is a user generated site they encounter many different viewpoints from what they have encountered in the past. Some join in. Others lurk. But one way or another all participate. Some simply by reading others by joining in.

I have a slightly off-topic quiestion, but it still pertains to the situation.
How would a person acheive the status of "Fighter"?

reply to post by louiekid333


The Public Fight Club Pub thread is a good place to get started. Have a read through it and if you have any questions you are welcome to U2U me or any of the debate forum moderators.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I agree with the question - how do you decide what either alternative or mainstream really means?

where is the line drawn between out-there and "normal"?

I don't read through every thread - and I don't always visit every forum - but, what I notice here at ATS is that it may be a case of more and more mainstream topics being discussed here - but the manner in which they're discussed is still very alternative - if you want to use that term

you can start the topic where ever you want to - but the members here aren't afraid to take even the most mundane topic, wring every last possible drop of interest out of it, replace that space with something completely different (as in "now for something completely different") and give the whole thing a brand new once over

and in almost every thread - what you think you've pretty much been able to take for granted has something so completely off the wall introduced that - even if you don't take it seriously, you're forced to argue the whole thing from a perspective you weren't really figuring on

the question I have is - what is the intended meaning of the word "too"?

I take it to mean that somehow this place might somehow lose it's intrinsic value by taking on more an more topics that are considered to be too ordinary

I really don't believe you can have a conversation in this place that is ever ordinary - there's some kind of surreal filter that's being applied to every single thought and word

all you have to do is read through one thread on the economy - pretty mainstream - and see where it goes

you could have a conversation here about baking a chocolate cake - and you're down the rabbit hole in about 10 posts

Too mainstream? I don't know if I would call it mainstream, but it certainly has gone through a lot of changes in the three years I have been here.

It's certainly more commmercial which kind of takes the spark out of anything. i.e. We're supposed to be excited about this book by Jim Marrs. Three years ago, no one was trying to push a book on me or push anything on me. There was and still I believe is a place you can buy ATS hats and t-shirts and that is fine I guess.

I get annoyed by some of the ads which the principals here most of the time don't even know what the ads say or the pictures in them. Many of the ads have been quite offensive.

It's like anything...it is what it is. I don't have to hang out here but I have friends here I would hate to lose and that's what keeps me here, not the site any longer.

As a new member I don't have a point of view as to how much ATS has changed. It seems that the subject does cut close to the bone with long term members and that there is a group who feels it has gone too far.
I think that some ATS threads could be more suited to BTS but that is just my opinion.
If it were decided that ATS is too mainstream, would steps be taken to change that? What might those steps be?

Originally posted by badgerprints
As a new member I don't have a point of view as to how much ATS has changed. It seems that the subject does cut close to the bone with long term members and that there is a group who feels it has gone too far.
I think that some ATS threads could be more suited to BTS but that is just my opinion.
If it were decided that ATS is too mainstream, would steps be taken to change that? What might those steps be?

I would think that threads more suitable for BTS might be moved from ATS but beyond that I don't think too much can be done. As long as the threads are in the appropriate forum and on the appropriate site not much really.

To delete a thread because it's "too mainstream" would yield cries of censorship. This would involve the mods into judgment calls of what's mainstream and what's not and that line is too blurry to judge really with an accuracy. What's mainstream to one may not be to another.

Just my take on it.

I think it's just getting old and redundant. Same old same old.

I would truly love for someone to come along and come up with a brand new juicy contraversy. Or a truly new take on an old one.

The fact of the matter is: What the hell is so top secret in the ATS forum?









[edit on 12-12-2008 by Excitable_Boy]

reply to post by schrodingers dog

Once again you write an excellent thread that strikes right into the heart of the issue at hand which is has ATS become too mainstream? I say ATS needs to be thrown out there more to the masses and more attention needs to be paid to this site to attract new members, That said, I myself am a fairly new member who is the prodigal fence sitter on most topics here but its members like you SD, Internos, Chissler, and many others who keep me here just because you are intelligent people that can make sense of many threads here but some are ruining this website with stupid junkyard rhetoric and a general lack of intelligence its sort of like somebody with wet brain syndrome.

I have never claimed to be a scholar or highly intelligent however I do have some serious common sense and street smarts and I guess you can say I have been incarcerated in the US Army for most of my adult life and would have retired if I was not injured severly so I guess I have donned the rose colored glasses and have not been privy to a website like this ever so its because of the afforementioned members among others who keep me here but some of the topics are just too far fetched and its not to bash anybody but I just cannot believe some of the garbage that members post. I dont know if its just to gain points or they are actually stupid but it is making me lose interest and it becomes nothing but a shouting match that eventually leads to derailment and ruins the threads integrity as well as the member that posted the thread. Im tired of the readings about threads such as "Im a reptile" or "a spaceship is coming October 7th" or Obama is an alien, Its disgusts me and im here to learn about genuine conspiracy theory and intelligent discussion.

Its my decision on what I read here and I choose to stay away from the nonsense threads but I have recommended this website to many but some have been hesitant to join because of one simple reason and its stupid threads, I have heard this from a few potential members who have said that there are too many stupid idiotic threads posted and not enough genuine conspiracy and the threads they have read were good and makes one think but they just didnt read enough of them. I like to read and I like the evidence to back it up and most do not back up their evidence. This site has the potential to be even better with its intelligent members and staff but the dumb threads need to be stopped so we can generate more positive attention....Naturally these my personal thoughts and I am not driving the bus but Im here to learn alternative theories and open up my semi closed mind but there are too many redundant threds and we need to refresh the threads not take an old thread and alter the title and change some words around........................



[edit on 13-12-2008 by cmd18B]

Indeed based on my experiences as a member I can answer chissler question without going near Google . The answer ties in somewhat with what I said above . Alternative means anti establishment all the way anything that is perceived to be a part of the establishment is to be opposed . This is why ATS has been accused of being cointelpro in the past .

The best and current example of what I am talking about is the obsession that some have with scarping the Federal Reserve . Either those who promote the idea don't want to or refuse to see what the consequences would be or its consequences be dammed . Neither can be considered a reasonable position for anybody to take . Remember while time is wasted on the 90% of bunk conspiracy theory's the other ten percent are operating or have effected us in some way .