Peter Schiff: "The Real Danger Is The Government Solution" - ATS MIX SE16

reply to post by poet1b

Jazzguy, I agree the people of the U.S., and the people all over the planet in general have gotten spoiled, and gotten lazy, and we are all part of the problem. IMO, the real danger is far more complicated, and has more to do with achieving the next level of advancement.

Mr p1b Consider. Before the advent of electricity on the farm - in the 1930s with the New Deal’s REA - Rural Electrification Administration - life on a farm had not changed much for a millennia. People arise at the crack of dawn, worked all the sunlit day long and retired to bed at dark.

All the farm work was done by hand. Cows must be milked two times a day. Animals must be fed. Barns must be cleaned. Every day. All year long. There is not a lot of free time on a smallish family farm. Water came from wells, springs or cisterns. I have carried water when visiting my poor relatives on the farm. It is sort of an expected thing to do; if you use it, you carry it. If you want to find the eggs any mature chicken will lay, you need a hen house otherwise you are forever looking for eggs in the shrubbery and in any sheltered spot.

Before the days of chemical farming, insects were often picked by hand. I have been present when farmers would pick by hand every tobacco worm in a half acre of tobacco plants. This was a routine performed more frequently as the summer came on and the tobacco was growing fast and tall. Tobacco was a very labor intensive farm product.

I’ve said a lot to point towards my agreement with your closing remark, that we have advanced - technologically speaking - in the past 75 years so rapidly that our culture has not had time to assimilate it and to make the needed adaptions. We are on the front edge of a sea change in culture. We have no real experience to guide us. It is much like the 18th century explorers who went forth boldly but ignorantly. We need a lot of luck to make it work.

we elected those who will make use dive
into a real big second depression

reply to post by donwhite


Thanks for you intelligent reply. I think you did a good job of illustrating what I was talking about. In a single generation we went from being people who knew where their food came from, to people who are disgusted when faced with the reality. We went from people who deliverd the offspring of our livestock, carefully and gently raised them to the proper age, and then killed, cleaned, cooked our former wards for our very own survival to chiken mcnuggets within a single generation. The disconnect between these two realities is astounding.

My observation of people at work is that the people who get paid the most, do very little with a great deal of effort, and most of that which they do makes very little difference, if any at all. If you read Sumerian history, you see how they went from a people coming together to stock pile food for survival, to city states where those who have gained control over the stores of food anointed themselves as gods. What I find even more amazing is how many people are willing to go along with these god complexes.

I have to wonder if the same people who refuse to work and contribute in a communist system, are the same ones who are only willing to work at getting themselves a bigger slice of the pie than they deserve in a capitalistic system.


[edit on 14-12-2008 by poet1b]

I disagree with some of his views but I agree that the government is not the answer. However, I don't think that the government is necessarily evil, government just needs to be restructured. I also don't want to see our country go and America be less powerful. I think we just are in need of new management. I see this economic collapse as temporary and may have lasting effects but we will find a solution eventually... I don't have any idea how we would go back on a hard standard... but I like what was said and I agree more government intervention is not the answer but without any government intervention we wouldn't get anywhere right now. We need the government right now and then the government can go away when it gets better. That's my view.

I think he is write, too bad non of this is heard of in the mainstream media. He was bashed when it wasn't a fact and now that it is... he is put on the back burner.

reply to post by Victoria 1


I like his ideas, but, it's his solution to the problems that get him laughed at. His solutions aren't for us... they're supposedly for everyone else. I'm starting to think this guy is an NWO spook.

I have to say, the funny thing is that I don't believe in the reason put forth, but I do agree with the premises. Government shouldn't be bailing out all these investment firms. At most, they should aid the small investors who loose out mainly due to the situation where they had money managers who were supposed to be protecting them from such a disaster such as 401k investors, punish the people who took advantage of the situation, and leave the big fish facing the results of the risks they took.

The U.S. hasn't been living off of the rest of the world, the rest of the world has been living off of the U.S., setting up trade negotiations with the help of our crooked corporations that tip the odds against the average person in the U.S., and undermine the U.S. worker.

Free market economics are not the solution, they are the root cause of our current economic crisis. What free economics amounts to, is government ignoring corporate crime, thus business becomes ever more corrupt until the system collapses. This is what was happening in the 1890ties, and the 1920ties, and it is happening here again now since repub neocons deregulated banking rolling back the laws that were in place to prevent an economic crisis as we are currently facing.

In addition, this is not something that only effects the U.S. or is a result of what the U.S. has done, this is a result of what the WTO has done in setting up these lopsided trade deals that screw the workers of the U.S.. The IC's and their associates are the people who created this mess, and they should be the ones who are held responsible for their actions.

"Americans have been simply living off the fruits of everyone else's labor."

Ummm...I have a job. Everything I have is paid for with MY labor, not someone else's. We aren't stealing money from other countries, we are borrowing. They are being repaid with interest. I'm tired of this liberal twaddle that we somehow owe the rest of the world something because we are so well off.

Mr. Schiff also wrongly asserts that the rest of the world will be better off when the US economy collapses. How does this work? The US is the largest consumer of goods and services in the world. How does an economic collapse here benefit anyone? Without Americans buying, other countries aren't selling, if other countries aren't selling, their economies go into the toilet, too.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by animekenji]

reply to post by animekenji


Your right..many countries sell to US, because we had endless credit and for years it has been 'buy buy buy!'. Foreign countries, like China and Japan have kept their curriencies low compared to the dollar so that we could buy their goods cheap.

But the party is over. These other countries are going to de-peg off the dollar and instead of selling to US they are going to start buying their own products and building their own infrastructures. Look at India companies that have already done better selling their products to other countries (besides the US).

You guys that don't believe in 'Free Markets' are in for a rude awakening. You think the worlds economy revolves around the US and 'OMG they just can't get along without US'. But they are and they will.

We are what, a country of 600 million (being very generous). China is what, a country of 3 Billion. We will be a drop of water in the bucket when this is said and done.

reply to post by toepick

But the party is over. These other countries are going to de-peg off the dollar and instead of selling to US they are going to start buying their own products and building their own infrastructures.

“De-peg off the dollar?” And onto what? Love it or hate it, the US dollar is the ONLY world’s currency and will remain so for the foreseeable future. About $400 b. circulates OUTSIDE the US compared to $200 b. inside.

Of the world’s other large countries, India has so many problems inside that it can hardly afford a glass to look out. Look at the Mumbai incident. Internal problems are so humongous that India moves more like a glacier than an iceberg.

Russian Federation? You should not overlook that 2/3rds of the country is frozen tundra. From Vladivostok to Moscow on the Trans-Siberian RR takes 7 days in the summer, 12 days or longer in the winter. I would be TOO scared to ever fly of those old poorly mainlined Ilyushin airplanes copied off 50 year old Boeing 737s. Not much you can grow there other than mosquitoes. Forget the ruble.

China? Although the PRC has enjoyed unprecedented “progress” since 1977, the un-breathable atmosphere is fast catching up with their brand of progress. 1 new coal burning electric plant every week until the end of 2009! Recall how you needed an oxygen tank to tour downtown Beijing? We had that level of SMOG in LA and other cities in the 1960s-1970s but today, smog is a memory. And if you factor in about $1,000 per car, plus 3 cents a gallon for RFG gasoline, it cost us well over $500 b.

Brazil? Not really. They too have great internal problems but they are still far behind Euro-types in industrialization. Their best claim to fame is they can make ethanol 75 cents a gallon CHEAPER than Archer Daniels Midland of Senator Bob Dole earmark fame. And use HALF the precious water we are wasting on growing corn. If you really want something to worry about tonight, I suggest you follow the Ogallala Aquifer story.

We are what, a country of 600 million [304 million] China is what, a country of 3 billion [1.3 billion]. We will be a drop of water in the bucket when this is said and done.

And W A T E R is the operative word. We can actually LIVE without OIL be we cannot LIVE without WATER. And we are fast mucking it up. Check this website drought.unl.edu...,SE

just on bloomberg live - AAWESOME !

reply to post by poet1b

Government . . should aid small investors who loose out due to money managers who were supposed to protect them from a disaster such as 401k investors, punish the people who took advantage of the situation, and leave the big fish facing the results of the risks they took.

I’m sorry to remind that everything involving government at all levels depends on MONEY. Those who have it use it wisely to “buy access” as the euphemism goes nowadays. Bribe is such a dirty word! Which brings me to CFR! Campaign Finance Reform.

I mean REAL and not FAKE reform. That means NO private money is allowed in a public election. Not even your own! That requires a constitutional amendment thanks to the Republican Supreme Court. Say Hello Ronnie, Hello George Senior and Hello George Junior.

That blankety-blank supreme court has the audacity to tell us that 304 million people cannot regulate their own elections when ONE person wants to “do it his way.” The words “elect, vote, election and electoral” appear 31 times in the Constitution. Two words found ONLY in the First Amendment, FREE SPEECH and those 2 words trump the 31 usages! That’s according to the Supreme Court as it is now constituted.

Until then - CFR - I have to ask you, “How much money did you donate to your congressperson last year?” I assure you, all the big investment houses now mislabeled “banks” sent millions to our - laugh when I use the possessive pronoun ‘our’ - congresspersons ostensibly as a ”campaign” donation. What would be the direct and visible cost of real CFR to us taxpayers? About $1-$2 billion a year. Savings to us taxpayers? Probably about $500 billion a year. Or more. And therein lies the RUB.

The rest of the world has been living off of the U.S., setting up trade negotiations with the help of our crooked corporations that tip the odds against the average person and undermine the U.S. worker. Free market economics are not the solution, they are the root cause of our current economic crisis. What free economics amounts to is government ignoring corporate crime, thus business becomes ever more corrupt until the system collapses.

This happened in the 1890s, and the 1920s, and it is happening again since Republican neocons deregulated banking rolling back the laws that were in place to prevent an economic crisis as we are currently facing . . this [economic crisis] is a result of what the WTO has done in setting up these lopsided trade deals that screw the workers of the U.S..

Very perceptive and right on point! I can’t do better so let me say I join you in this diagnosis Dr poet1b. I’m sure without knowing that many Wall Street players were doing insider trading for a long time. We could see 100s on their way to Sing-Sing or Leavenworth if we had governments not RUN by the likes of Mike Bloomberg and Henry Paulson (who ‘made’ $700 m. at Goldman Sachs). And Bush43.

Did we DIS-INVENT the words, CONFLICT OF INTEREST?

[edit on 1/3/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by TruthDefender

we elected those who will make use dive into a real big second depression

You are exactly right on that Mr T/D. But do you KNOW which of those we elected are responsible? Do you understand that it was Reagan and the two Bushes along with Newt Gingrich who DE regulated and gutted the staff of our economy's watchdogs - SEC, IRS, FTC, CFTC, FDA and etc - making all those shenanigans posing as investments possible? That will cost us ordinary folks about $7 to $15 t. and will wreck our children's and grand-children's futures!

[edit on 1/3/2009 by donwhite]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do yourself a favor and watch this video...it's more important than you think. it has so much to bare on our current financial situation its scary! look up The Money Masters on google or on you tube....long but the history and facts there in are priceless! not to mention, it was a video created in the 90's and is VERY relevant to the CURRENT "Economic Crisis" we are experiencing right now....it even offers a solution to the problems we are facing as a whole in this country!

[edit on 4-3-2009 by thefutureisuncertain]

[edit on 4-3-2009 by thefutureisuncertain]