Ireland to hold a second referendum on the Lisbon European Union Treaty

reply to post by fatdad


Yup, or the EUSSR will switch the treaties like the other poster suggested.

But that is all irrelevant as the treaty cannot be changed for Ireland and not changed for every other country - hence no treaty change.

Politician's Promises not to enforce certain parts of the treaty are meaningless, as is demonstrated by the politician's promises that each nation would have a referendum, when only 3 have been ALLOWED to hold one...

Hitler used to hold referendums, he also had control over the Mainstream Media and his side counted the votes... JUST like the EUSSR.

Originally posted by fatdad
if they have to they will force Iceland to have a vote everyday until they get the yes vote they want.. all these concessions will quickly be reversed or dropped as soon as they have there yes vote..

That’s odd, why would they do that? Iceland is not even part of the EU, let alone anything to do with the Lisbon Treaty.

The amount of uninformed people on this site recently is amazing.

Mikey

Ireland wants in the E.U.? Then play ball.
You dont? Then loose all the benefits of being in it.

Think there aren't benefits...well then leave the E.U. and see how you do...enjoy the journey.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by Mikey84


I think he made a typo.

You should use that as an excuse to attack him.

Ireland and Iceland are quite similiar in form and such a mistake is not detected by spell-check.

Let's attack for it, lets call him uninformed because of his typos - regardless of whether or not his statement is true.



(*replace British with Euro, and you'll get the idea)





[edit on 12-12-2008 by irishtiger]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by irishtiger]

Originally posted by irishtiger
reply to post by Mikey84

 

I think he made a typo.

You should use that as an excuse to attack him.

Ireland and Iceland are quite similiar in form and such a mistake is not detected by spell-check.

Let's attack for it, lets call him uninformed because of his typos - regardless of whether or not his statement is true.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by irishtiger]

It’s hardly an attack, simply just advising that Iceland is not part of the EU. The uninformed comment was not just aimed at him.

Oh and thanks for posting an example of one of the many “No” propaganda posters that was going around.

Just a note, funny how several new members join today to back up 1 poster.... with no history of posts on ATS before either?..... Just an observation.

Mikey

reply to post by Mikey84


Report me to the mods then.

I will discuss this with them. As I am Irish, and this thread concerns an Irish issue, I am sure they will understand my concerns. Since three Irishmen thus far have posted in this thread about Ireland, I suggest you turn us all in.

This couldn't possibly be coincidence. They also all picked the 'NO' vote - another coincidence?








[edit on 12-12-2008 by irishtiger]

To anyone who wants to vote "NO" take a look at the company you keep.
Youth defence are pushing the No Vote, with BS propaganda just like they did
with devoice. All fear mongering Youth Defence is a popular movement in the
Republic of Ireland that fights the increasing tendency to liberalize
Ireland's once strict sexual laws. Youth Defence were founded in the
immediate aftermath of a law case where the Irish Attorney General, Harry
Whelan, took out an injunction against a 14 year old girl who was attempting
to travel to England to get an abortion.

Youth Defence took to the streets to protest against abortion at this time
and gained widespread popularity due to their tough and uncompromising fight
against liberalization in Ireland.

Their leader is Justin Barrett who is pursuing a political career at
present.
www.geocities.com...

And before anyone asks, yes I'm Irish living in Perth. I left Ireland when
it was considered to be a 3rd world country. But look at it now, thanks to
the EU. And to anyone who doesn't want other poor countries to join, what
short memories you have. Who gives you the right to deny them a chance to
get a foot on the ladder for a better way of living? The same foot that gave
Ireland the standard they now have.

The history of the past 35 five years of membership has taught us that the
primacy of EU law over Irish law in areas of EU competence has been hugelybeneficial to Irish citizens. Without EU law, tens of thousands of married Irish women would not have gained the right to equal treatment. Without EUlaw, Irish environmental standards would remain in the Dark Ages and without
CON.....

EU law, cartels and other anti-competitive practices would not beinvestigated and outlawed. If it was up to this lot Ireland would still be a poor country, battered wives would be expected to stay in a marriage.
www.lisbonvote.com...
Mr Barrett has attended conferences and spoken at an event organised by
Germany's National Democratic Party (NPD). Two years ago he attended an NPD
rally in the Bavarian city of Passau as a Representative of Youth Defence.
His name appears as one of the "honorary guests" at the event in Die
Deutsche Stimme (The German Voice), the NPD party newspaper. The NPD
described the rally, the largest by the party to date, as a day of national
resistance. It was held in May 2000, and over 6,000 party members attended.
Other honorary guests included an Italian right-wing extremist and a former
Nazi SS officer, who received a standing ovation.

The NPD, founded in 1964, describes itself as a "real party of opposition".
Though politically insignificant - it is not represented in the Bundestag and has less than 7,000 members - it has established an expansive national
CON....

[edit on 12/12/08 by iammonkey]

network of local parties, youth groups and initiatives.

The NPD opposes a multicultural German society, what it calls "foreign
infiltration", and seeks an immediate end to immigration and the immediate
expulsion of non-Germans. Germans should have exclusive access to the social
welfare system and first choice of jobs.

The NPD does not recognise the current German borders but rather those of
pre-war 1937. www.geocities.com...

ITS GOT THE CATHOLIC STENCH ALL OVER IT you guys are worried about being ruled by Brussels give me a break.
Your already ruled by the pope an ex Nazi youth.
If the people of Ireland vote yes get over it, it’s their choice. And if you can’t get over it I know a nice one bedroom cave in an Afghanistan for sale. Make an offer.



[edit on 12/12/08 by iammonkey]

This is actually pretty typical of the europhiles.

The voters don't understand the issues.

They are too stupid to be involved in a vote.

This is NOT the same as the previous treaty (only about 96%)

It's a matter for voters to take up with their governments.


blah, blah, blah - all straight out of the europhiles handbook as published by P. Mandelsohn

reply to post by irishtiger


mikey84 is an Irish man READ the post
not a one line post

[edit on 12/12/08 by iammonkey]

One of the objectives of this financial meltdown is to force the final step towards the E.U. unification, to bring all together. This means all countries who had vote no, now will vote yes, and Euro will be the currency for all.

I voted no, and I'll tell you why......no one explained what is was all about. Any articles and info on it was completely saturated with legal type language that the layperson could not decipher.

Why should we vote yes to something we don't understand just because some corrupt politician tells us to?
That's why a portion of the No voters voted NO.

As far as I can make out, the treaty would give Ireland less power over how she runs herself, and allows the EU to make decisions with a slim majority. So the larger member states can push through decisions and not care how it affects smaller countries like Ireland. This is what we are concerned about. It gives the smaller members less say in how Europe is run......not on!!

Also there was an issue with the neutrality of Ireland, which wasn't addressed properly, some said it was protected, other said not......

Fact is, the rest of the EU member states did not let the people vote, because they would know the outcome. This is not a democracy, this is not a Europe for the people.....it is as corrupt as any other government, and the person on the street is sick to the back teeth of corrupt politicians telling is what is best for us, when it only suits them and their own person interests.

Ireland has benefited very much from her involvement in Europe, and so have many other countries, that is not in dispute.
The problem is that we do not want to hand total control over to Germany, France, UK, and Italy to dictate our policies.

Originally posted by Mikey84
I will vote yes because I think it’s the right way forward. I think it will make it better for Europe, it means countries that can benefit from joining (like Ireland has benefited) can join – without the treaty no more countries can join the EU. It gives EU citizens more power and rights, one example being the “citizens initiative” or when citizens are in a third country, which is in the treaty, it will be better for business and EU markets. It will give a stronger role to national parliaments, it will make it easier and quicker for a country to leave the EU, there will be an easier and quicker process for decision making. And personally I am all for a more united Europe. There are heaps of reason why I will vote yes.

Many more here www.ibeclisbon.ie...

Mikey
[edit on 11/12/2008 by Mikey84]

Wooooah!! Before you get completely sucked into the 'Pro Lisbon' propaganda.. Remember that Lisbon gives LESS power to soverign governments over their own countries by usurping soverign powers to EU departments. Governments will basically be 'Local Councils'.

A lot of what you have said above is borderline incorrect.

I understand that the EU is the best thing to happen to this continent since the roman empire but you should at least research the ALL the points (Good and bad) about Lisbon before you vote yes... Especially this point..

The 'Voted in' EU parliament members vote on an ammendment.. this ammendment and its implications and written up by civil servents in Brussels. Then, the ultimate decision of whether the ammendment will be passed as law is given by the head of the department that that ammendment will affect.
Now.. this 'head of department' is not 'voted in' and the names of these 'heads of department' are almost impossible to find out.

This is not democracy.



[edit on 12/12/08 by Dermo]

reply to post by dAlen


exactly, if it wasnt for the EU's structure funds, Ireland would still be the Albania of North-West Europe..It is Ireland choice to vote for the treaty, not the EU's.Its peoples own responsibility to learn about the treaty, but here are some good points.
increased involvement of the European Parliament in the legislative process through extended codecision with the EU Council, reduction of the number of Commissioners from 27 to 18[less supranational], eliminating the pillar system, and the creation of a President of the European Union and a High Representative for Foreign Affairs to present a united strong position on EU policies. If ratified, the Treaty of Lisbon would also make the Union's human rights charter, the Charter of Fundamental Rights, legally binding...simple making all the former treaties more understandable..
I thought the main reason for no was about the higher bussiness taxes the EU wants to put in..
If people talk about EUSSR, leave the union, leave the structure funds, leave a strong currency[Italy thinks again about the days of depreciating their Lire for more exports] leave enviroment legislation.leave agriculture protection.and all the other forms of protection this union gave you..leave 60 years of peace and prosperity.
see how you handle alone in these "troubled times"



[edit on 12-12-2008 by Foppezao]

Another thing, dont forget to vote in june..
I am voting for D'66[the democratic liberal fraction in the Parliament], for stronger Foreign policy, and more subsidiarity[in favor of member states] i guess everybody want more subsidiarity..dont forget your influence as a EU citizen begings with that vote..