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Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

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posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Sounds a LOT like Santa Claus to me.


Well, that's kinda the point. Saint Nicholas was to point back to Christ and reflect Jesus' caring, compassionate and giving nature. Yet, Saint Nicholas was merely a man, not God's One and only son.


I'm not even sure if Jesus actually existed. I think we have more proof for the existence of St Nicholas than we have for Jesus to be honest.

As for Jesus having some sort of divinity? Well I'm sure you realize that every great teacher which resulted in a major Religion was seen as divine.

What say you of Krsna? The Incarnation of Vishnu? Actually some go so far as calling him the Supreme Being.

This writing is ascribed to Krsna



Whenever righteousness declines
And unrighteousness increases,
I make myself a body;
In every age I come back
To deliver the holy,
To destroy the sin of the sinner,
To establish righteousness.


Sounds awfully similar to the story of Jesus.


Of course Islam rejects the Incarnation of God in any form.

Buddha, on the other hand, was seen as someone who attained the Godhead, not the other way around. Which makes that one very interesting relative to the others.


I guess claims to divinity really depend on what religion you are a member of, and therefore that truth is relative.




Knowing full well my words do not constitute proof for another person, it is my hope someday you'll come to know the difference between the two in a personal way that will remove any doubt.


Oh I have. I have a very deep and personal relationship with the Universe. Sometimes I call it Jesus, sometimes I call it God, sometimes I call it Krsna, sometimes I call it Jimmy (my name). And sometimes... I call it Santa.

I have come to realize that all that I experience is subjective. There is nothing that I can have direct knowledge of because all information comes though shadows of other things, so I have to work with what I have.. my experience. And my experience has showed that all of the great stories of divinity stem from personal experiences translated into cultural context.

I try not to mistake the map for the territory as is so easy to do as a human with emotions etc.

I doubt nothing, because I hold onto nothing.

Ashes to Ashes... and Dust to Dust.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]




posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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I am familiar with the school of thought known as relativism however the suggestion that truth is subjective makes the mission of this website impossible. One cannot "deny ignorance" if truth and ignorance is relative to the beholder. Like a ship without anchor, without some kind of grounding, a person is destined to drift along a sea of continuously changing facts and moralities never knowing with any degree of certainty right or wrong. Schools do not teach that truths are relative however, so they do not share your viewpoint. They teach facts/truths according to the information we have available. One of these subjects is History, which encompasses the facts of Saint Nicholas. If the school makes facts subjective, it no longer has a function.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I am familiar with the school of thought known as relativism however the suggestion that truth is subjective makes the mission of this website impossible. One cannot "deny ignorance" if truth and ignorance is relative to the beholder. Like a ship without anchor, without some kind of grounding, a person is destined to drift along a sea of continuously changing facts and moralities never knowing with certainty right or wrong. Schools do not teach that truths are relative however, so they do not share your viewpoint. They teach facts/truths according to the information we have available. One of these subjects is history, which encompasses the facts of Saint Nicholas. If the school makes facts subjective, it no longer has a function.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]


Actually relativism is much different from the "Right thought" and "Right action" of Buddhism. In Christianity you can find this in Romans 14:14 where Paul states that he is convinced through Christ that nothing is inherently clean or unclean, but to he who believe it is.. it truly is"

But yes, indeed Schools teach that truth is relative. For example, the Wave/Particle Duality of Light.

I don't understand this desire for conviction. I work just fine without it.

Indeed scientists base everything on theories, which are maps of reality, not reality itself.


As for schools teaching that facts are subjective... That's exactly what a class in existentialism will teach you. For example check out Hegels, Phenomenology of Spirit

An excerpt...


Hegel's approach, referred to as the Hegelian method, consists of actually examining consciousness' experience of both itself and of its objects and eliciting the contradictions and dynamic movement that come to light in looking at this experience. Hegel uses the phrase "pure looking at" (reines Zusehen) to describe this method. If consciousness just pays attention to what is actually present in itself and its relation to its objects, it will see that what looks like stable and fixed forms dissolve into a dialectical movement. Thus philosophy, according to Hegel, cannot just set out arguments based on a flow of deductive reasoning. Rather, it must look at actual consciousness, as it really exists.



Still, you have yet to tell me what your thoughts are on the Incarnation of God as Krshna, Meher Baba, and the other avatars which diety has been ascribed to. Are these equals of Jesus or is Jesus the only one which you believe to be true? And if so.. How would you react to a teacher lumping them altogether in a course which studies the common beliefs of ancient peoples?


[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Actually relativism is much different from the "Right thought" and "Right action" of Buddhism.

But yes, indeed Schools teach that truth is relative. For example, the Wave/Particle Duality of Light.


When you take a test, you get a right or wrong answer.


Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Indeed scientists base everything on theories, which are maps of reality, not reality itself.


Being a scientist myself, I'm familiar with the need for data. You need facts first, else no one cares what you have to say.


Originally posted by HunkaHunka
As for schools teaching that facts are subjective... That's exactly what a class in existentialism will teach you. For example check out Hegels, Phenomenology of Spirit


Some college courses such as Philosophies of Life and World Religions do discuss subjective topics, but they have tests too with right and wrong answers.


Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Still, you have yet to tell me what your thoughts are on the Incarnation of God as Krshna, Meher Baba, and the other avatars which diety has been ascribed to. Are these equals of Jesus or is Jesus the only one which you believe to be true? And if so.. How would you react to a teacher lumping them altogether in a course which studies the common beliefs of ancient peoples?


Make a thread, I'll discuss, this isn't relevant to the topic other than to perhaps demonstrate relativism shows an inability to focus upon a single topic.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 



If I get a question in school that asks if Light is a particle, the only correct answer is "Yes and No" or "It depends"


As I posted after your edit...

Even Paul states in Romans 14:14 that nothing is clean or unclean, only to those who believe it so.


I think it comes down to this. Genesis said that the first sin was eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

I don't believe in Good and Evil.. therefore, I don't continue the same flaw that adam and eve supposedly started.

And I think that is where we draw our differences. You do believe in right and wrong, I don't.

You do think it is wrong to teach Santa is real, and likewise to allow children to believe in him. I don't.

Believing in myths is simply something humans do. You are a prime example of this. As is the child who believes in Santa.

We do this naturally and have been doing so since the dawn of mankind.



[edit on 17-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
The parents should respect their children by providing them with the truth regardless of my own personal feelings on this matter.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by saint4God]


I bet you'd have something to say if the Teacher had stated "God and Jesus are not real"..

After all, he is only telling the truth....



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 06:51 PM
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My daughter came up with another good point in this discussion. Some of you said that the schools only teach truth? Ok, then what of the many things that are proven wrong in history, and have been taught that way for many many years? So then they were teaching us lies then? What of all things that are proven wrong with time, but are taught to us as truth right now? I`m like my daughter on this other point also. You are grasping at straws to make us look bad in your own minds, not our minds, your own. We have nothing to feel bad about as far as wanting Christmas to be a magic and fun filled time for our kids, no matter what age they are.

Even though we respect your opinions on this, and you can feel that we are wrong and you are right all you want to, just as we may feel the other way, and you need to respect us for this. God gave us the free will to do and think and believe as we want, you may not like it, but you tell the big guy that, ok? See how far you get on it. When the big guy says that we are not to have free will, and must bend to what these others want us to, then I say ok, I will. But, until then, it stays the same, whether I`m right, or your right. Do you understand my point? Because, if you don`t, then you have a big problem with free will, and can take it up with the boss.

NOW do you get my drift.....it`s up to each of us to make our own choice in our daily lives as to what we want to believe and think. Whether it`s right or wrong.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by FiatLux]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


How old is your daughter? Maybe should get her own account and post her own thoughts.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by stumason


I bet you'd have something to say if the Teacher had stated "God and Jesus are not real"..



I've had teachers tell me that before....I've also had teachers tell my kids that.
Guess what? No damage was done. I respect their right to express their opinion and would certainly never try to get them fired.

I guess the difference is that I did not feel threatened when they disagreed with me. They did not expose me as a liar.....they merely expressed their heartfelt belief. Unless teachers sign some sort of agreement to check their intelligence at the classroom door they should be able to share real knowledge with their students. To do any less would seem like living in the dark ages.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by FiatLux
 


How old is your daughter? Maybe should get her own account and post her own thoughts.


I told how old she was in an earlier posting, go back and look. And you wanting to know more about my daughter has nothing to do with the topic at all.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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Is spreading the Santa Claus myth destructive to kids?

In a public school classroom, you have well-to-do kids and poor kids. Kids that believe in Santa Claus believe Santa Rewards them for good behavior. What happens after Christmas wen well-behaved poor kids learn they got less presents than their poorly behaved and wealthy counterparts? Poor kids will get a false sense of inferiority. Rich kids in such a situation are given a false sense of superiority.

I say let all kids in public school know Santa is a fake. Johnny from the wrong side of the tracks did not get a present this year because his dad got laid off, not because Johnny was bad. Mikey from the nice side of the tracks got tons of presents because his dad is a total corporate whore that is willing to stab Johnny's dad in the back.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


Please don't take offense. She seems like a very bright girl, that's all.

It would actually be refreshing to hear more. That's all I meant.

I've got 4 kids and when the were in kindergarten & 1st grade, they told all the other kids in their class that there was no Santa claus and that reindeer cannot fly....et. I was proud of them for telling the truth although I do wish I had taught them to be more tactful. Tact though comes with age and experience. Cant expect too much of it from a 5 year old.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Sparky63]



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Is spreading the Santa Claus myth destructive to kids?

In a public school classroom, you have well-to-do kids and poor kids. Kids that believe in Santa Claus believe Santa Rewards them for good behavior. What happens after Christmas wen well-behaved poor kids learn they got less presents than their poorly behaved and wealthy counterparts? Poor kids will get a false sense of inferiority. Rich kids in such a situation are given a false sense of superiority.

I say let all kids in public school know Santa is a fake. Johnny from the wrong side of the tracks did not get a present this year because his dad got laid off, not because Johnny was bad. Mikey from the nice side of the tracks got tons of presents because his dad is a total corporate whore that is willing to stab Johnny's dad in the back.


I don`t understand your thinking on this. Even if there was no talk about Santa Claus, you would still go out and buy Christmas presents for your family and friends, so who is the "corporate whore" in this case? Every time you buy anything, gifts, cars or even food, you are paying money to a corporation, who are you going to blame all of this on....Santa?



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by FiatLux
 


Please don't take offense. She seems like a very bright girl, that's all.

It would actually be refreshing to hear more. That's all I meant.

I've got 4 kids and when the were in kindergarten & 1st grade, they told all the other kids in their class that there was no Santa claus and that reindeer cannot fly....et. I was proud of them for telling the truth although I do wish I had taught them to be more tactful. Tact though comes with age and experience. Cant expect too much of it from a 5 year old.

[edit on 17-12-2008 by Sparky63]


No offense taken. I`ve told more about my personal family life in this discussion alone then I have in my whole time here. I shouldn`t, but I do, because I believe in my family and love them to death. And if my children were to tell me to stop with the Santa stories, I would in a heart beat. But they haven`t, and as my daughter told me, "If we were to have grown up not knowing the story about Santa, we would not be the people we are today. You then dad, would be the one upset for not telling us such stories. It taught us that giving is better then getting any day of the week."

How do you argue with that?



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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ok where is the spirt of christmas with this teacher



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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Originally posted by shadow654204
ok where is the spirt of christmas with this teacher


The spirit of Christmas is here:

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

This is from the same book Saint Nicholas carried with him. How dishonorable it is to him to portray him as something he wasn't. He spent his whole life promoting a message that got edited beyond recognition.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 08:09 AM
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reply to post by FiatLux
 


teachers definatly dont always teach the truth, i remeber when i was at school they were teaching the history of the tudors and the royal line, they taught it that Edward VI became king then mary, but when i said this didnt happen jane became queen after edward and she was queen for 9 days my teacher turned around and said she didnt matter she wasnt queen for long enough and it didnt matter.
so they where lieing here to me, just like parents saying santa exists they rewrote history because its classed as easier.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by shadow654204
ok where is the spirt of christmas with this teacher


The spirit of Christmas is here:

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

This is from the same book Saint Nicholas carried with him. How dishonorable it is to him to portray him as something he wasn't. He spent his whole life promoting a message that got edited beyond recognition.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by saint4God]


it's almost as bad as portraying Jesus as somehow more divine then the rest of us.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by shadow654204
ok where is the spirt of christmas with this teacher


Did the teacher show a lack of spirit just because they spoke the truth? I don't think the spirit is the issue.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox115
 

First santa claus is (lucas satan)lucious lucifer(light bearer) happiness giver if you will, father christmas, spirit of christmas and dont forget Noel and the word magic is witchcraft and when satan is so much more widely excepted then Jesus Christ there is your grand deception .
The scipture said that the whole world would be decieved and blinded by satan and he would trade a lie for the truth!!!!!!





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