Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

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posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
Hi Hunka, I'd intentionally not engaged in a discussion with you previously, merely pointing out that your opinion is just as valid as mine. I understand you feel a need to mock others in their beliefs, state your opinions as if they were facts, and to support something you know is false, however on ATS we're all here to Deny Ignorance so my responsibility is adherence and promotion towards the truth. This is what I plan on supporting as taking part of the principle. It does not surprise me that parents are supporters of lies (as I said before, I worked in business for many years) but as for me and my house, we'll not propagate them.

[edit on 16-12-2008 by saint4God]


You are the one mocking me!

I'm sitting here saying that the myth of Santa is equivalent to the myth of Jesus, and you want to act like the myth of Jesus is Greater than the myth of Santa.

That to me is mocking.

I just don't understand how you can sit there with a straight face and call Jesus TRUTH and Santa BUNK.

And worse off you act like the stories Parents tell children about Santa is somehow unethical. While, telling them about Jesus is just showing them truth.


And then... in this last post of yours you attempt to act like you are taking the high ground. You really should read the thread in my signature.


The thing you fail to realize is that the human mind apprehends through narrative. It's just how it works. Which is why Children believe in Santa and Adults believe in whatever religious figure they were indoctrinated into.

The real truth is that there is nothign wrong with using myths to understand, or even believing in those myths. What drives me nuts is someone who believes their myth is superior.

[edit on 16-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]




posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Lawlord
I do think the teacher should not have told the children solely because it caused them mental distress.

Was the teacher saving them from distress down the road? Maybe, but short term at least it caused children agony.

That was not the right approach.

Parents should not have fostered lies to their children in the first place. But the teacher should not have caused mental distress for children. Both the parents and the teacher are to be blamed.


The teacher casued mental distress?!?!?!? you're kidding me right?! You are going to wash the hands of the very parents who STARTED the whole thing? The parents started the lie... You blame the teacher for revieling it as such!?



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by Jkd Up
 


blurting it out in anger is not the answer really.
and its not the teachers job in the long run its the parents choice if the child should be brought up with a christmas involving santa.
its the same choice to celebrate jesus' birth.
the teacher had no right, i think the children would be more mentally scarred finding out that way.

christmas has got a checkered history as the holiday was origanly a pagan holiday or roman or what ever and the christians usedit for jesus' birht but we should all respect each others choice in beliefs, i would never mock anyone who celebrated jesus' birth because i do not follow this same path or belief.
i was brought up with christmas as celebrating santa and jesus at school we would have a nactivy play and santa would visit, we would go to church and learn all though december about jesus and his birth and sing the hymms and take it very seriously even as small childrne but we would also be excited about the fact santa would come to visit the school and give us a present each too.
unfortuantly my mum was incharge of making the santa suit for school so i always knew that it wasnt the 'REAL' santa but it was still magical in its own right.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by kerrichin
 


I have to go even further back and say that the subject should not have even been talked about in discussion in school. Not that I'm a kill-joy, but school does not teach theology or occult beliefs... The subject such as Santa shouldn't have even been discussed if this will be the end of it all. Let's list the wrongs in this sinareo:

The teacher was wrong for tellign the children

The school was wrong for letting a discussion be allowed

The kids were wrong to believe in the myth

The parents were wrong to perpetuate the myth

They myth was wrong for growing bigger than the actual man


Jeeze... I guess everyone's wrong.
Like I said in the beginning of this wild ride of a post... I don't think the teacher was right... But the parents shouldn't have been outraged.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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oh my is santa not real then

I think it is kinda sad when the magic is broken for the kiddies Its nice to be kept going as long as possible,so guess I would also be annoyed if this had happened to me,maybe not a teachers place to spoil the illusion...



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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I'm not sure how it was interpreted that the teacher became angry. According to the article, it was the children becoming 'rowdy':

"The class of 25 allegedly became rowdy talking about Santa Claus and the teacher blurted out that he did not exist in an effort to calm them down, The Mail reported." www.foxnews.com...

Were they already debating if Santa existed or not? Did a child say, "teacher, does santa really exist?" Do you believe the teacher's intent was to ruin Christmas for the students? Not sure what they mean about rowdy here, but "in an effort to calm them down" sounds more like quelling a riot instead of trying to start one. Not having been there leaves a lot of questions open.

Why is it when a teacher tells a child santa doesn't exist it's mental distress, but when a child finds out or is told by a parent it isn't mental distress?

[edit on 16-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I'm not sure how it was interpreted that the teacher became angry. According to the article, it was the children becoming 'rowdy':

"The class of 25 allegedly became rowdy talking about Santa Claus and the teacher blurted out that he did not exist in an effort to calm them down, The Mail reported." www.foxnews.com...

Were they already debating if Santa existed or not? Did a child say, "teacher, does santa really exist?" Do you believe the teacher's intent was to ruin Christmas for the students? Not sure what they mean about rowdy here, but "in an effort to calm them down" sounds more like quelling a riot instead of trying to start one. Not having been there leaves a lot of questions open.

Why is it when a teacher tells a child santa doesn't exist it's mental distress, but when a child finds out or is told by a parent it isn't mental distress?

[edit on 16-12-2008 by saint4God]



Why is it that when a teacher says Santa does not exist you are ok with it, but if I say God does not exist you take offense?





[edit on 16-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


because the parent doent just blurt it out.

the fact was what ever the children where being rowdy about the teacher couldnt control them, to me that makes them a bad teacher seeing as that is part of their job really



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by special
oh my is santa not real then

I think it is kinda sad when the magic is broken for the kiddies Its nice to be kept going as long as possible,so guess I would also be annoyed if this had happened to me,maybe not a teachers place to spoil the illusion...


So you'd rather the teacheer lie to cover the parent's lie? What then about the children in the class who don't have Christmas... Would you rather the teacher hurt their feelings?



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by kerrichin
because the parent doent just blurt it out.

the fact was what ever the children where being rowdy about the teacher couldnt control them, to me that makes them a bad teacher seeing as that is part of their job really


I'm not sure if you've ever had a substitute teacher, but I can say from my personal experiences of having many, they're not treated with respect in the public schools I went to. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but don't see any stretch of the imagination to say the children were getting rowdy because the person in charge was not their daily overseer. Again, we're being very subjective with 'blurt', the teacher could have said it out of a mean-spirited fit of anger, but the article does not say this nor gives a full story. There's no interview with the teacher, no following up to get the accounts from different students as to what happened. The school administration made its decision to fire the truth telling teacher in support of the lying parents. They did so for the same reason the teacher made her statement, to quell the riot.

[edit on 16-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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Well, in general I would agree that their is nothing wrong with letting children believe in something magical. I also feel that this is a decision for each particular family.

Personally though I believe that "magic" and all the wonderful ideas discussed so far can be created without deceit.

In my situation my first child has always been aware of who "Santa" etc. really was, my second child was "duped" by my parents and siblings and unfortunately I allowed this and participated.

My oldest has always had a love of Christmas, "pretends" Santa is real and all that even now at 15. My oldest has the "magic" and "sparkle" of Christmas in her heart without ever having to be lied to in the process.

My youngest found out a few years or so ago who Santa (the tooth fairy, the easter bunny etc) really is and had a little emotional breakdown in regards to the whole situation.

His heartbreak of learning the truth made ME cry and I felt horrible for deceiving him.

He asked many questions that day, as he is very smart, he deduced from learning that Santa is not real that neither was the tooth fairy etc.

ahh, the joys of two children who are several years apart, and the differences in how we raise them.

My experience has been that we were far kinder to our oldest child, never even starting the whole Santa/tooth fairy etc as being real.

Our oldest never had to have that moment of "they lied to me" etc. That feeling of betrayal that those most trusted by little ones, have been misleading them.

Both my children retain the "magic" of Christmas, they still have that "twinkle" and "magic" in their eyes laughing and playing and getting ready for Christmas.

At 15 and 11 they still run around excited, leaving milk (two glasses) and cookies for "Santa" while giggling that mom and dad had better share with each other. On Christmas morning they still (we will see this year), run down the stairs (yes we have stairs) as dawn breaks (gosh some years before its even light) in excitement and joy over what Christmas day will bring.

What I really love seeing these days (now that both my children know the truth), is the joy, magic and sparkle I see in them that has to do with us, as a family, having a special day together.

I love seeing my youngest pretending to be santa as he passes over a "special" gift to mom, dad or sister. I enjoy each and every moment that we get to take our turns being santa, and sharing basically a beautiful day.

I relish seeing the seriousness in their faces as they donate their time, energy and sometimes even a bit of their saved Christmas money to a good cause. I know that when my children choose on their own to donate any of the above, that they know for sure what Christmas is really supposed to be about, caring and sharing and love.

And still, as my children hand me a gift on Christmas morning that they took time to create for me, I hold that gift to my heart far more than any bought gift. LOL at 40, I get all gooey inside, wondering what they have created for me this year, and I again follow them around asking "What did you guys do"? "Can I have a peek? A clue? Come on PLEASE? I will act surprised Christmas morning. I can't wait!!" While they laugh "at me" and tell me NO I have to wait just like they do.

I guess for me, the magic and sparkle and all the excitement of the holidays, is created in our interactions with each other. Not by Santa and reindeer, or shopping and buying gifts.

And further more. we have pretend play (more so when they were younger), and they understand the difference between the real world, and imagination. We love imagination, it's the best "invention" ever, but imagination does not require me to be deceitful to my children for it to be exciting and fun and special.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


We each judge ourselves saint4God, it`s not up to you or anyone one else to do it for us. Not one of us has the right to judge anyone else, only ourselves. I don`t think anyone who wants to tell the story of Santa is going to he-- for it because a few others think they should.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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Why is it that when a teacher says Santa does not exist you are ok with it, but if I say God does not exist you take offense?


Well, Santa is not God. There is no Santa religion. There is no Santa Bible. You can't compare Santa and God. There is no documentation (real or otherwise) of Santa before a certain year. Regardless of whether or not you think God created the universe, there is still at least written word about it.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by FiatLux
We each judge ourselves saint4God, it`s not up to you or anyone one else to do it for us. Not one of us has the right to judge anyone else, only ourselves. I don`t think anyone who wants to tell the story of Santa is going to he-- for it because a few others think they should.


I've not placed judgement upon anyone and I'm sorry if you feel that I have. I've not said/implied that anyone who tells the story of Santa is going to Hell (for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, through Christ we are save hence the celebration of Christmas). In fact, I thought I made quite clear that the consequences of lying to one's own children has serious consequences here and now on earth. I'm not sure how this has turned into a religious affront, as this topic has to do with discussing whether or not a teacher should have told the children the truth. You do not have to be a Christian to say the parents should not have lied to their children. Many Christians perpetuate the santa myth, though I see a contradiction in that belief. If we could remain within the topic, it may add some clarity for the situation to those (including myself) who do not see a connection between the mythological flying reindeer pilot and the Christian faith.

[edit on 16-12-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Totakeke


Why is it that when a teacher says Santa does not exist you are ok with it, but if I say God does not exist you take offense?


Well, Santa is not God. There is no Santa religion. There is no Santa Bible. You can't compare Santa and God. There is no documentation (real or otherwise) of Santa before a certain year. Regardless of whether or not you think God created the universe, there is still at least written word about it.


Oh boy.... I know I'm going to get slaughtered for this one however, I am not here to insult God... But, there's more concrete proof of Santa than there is for God. The history of Santa is a timeline you can follow... God is belief.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


"I've not placed judgement upon anyone and I'm sorry if you feel that I have."

Oh but you have. You have judged us as being liers and harmful people.

"I've not said/implied that anyone who tells the story of Santa is going to Hell (for all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God, through Christ we are save hence the celebration of Christmas)."

If you didn`t, then that`s good. We all create our own he--.

"In fact, I thought I made quite clear that the consequences of lying to one's own children has serious consequences here and now on earth"

No, you didn`t, can you show proof that this has caused serious consequences here and now. I`m sure there are other bigger things that have caused such dire straights then this. Not allowing others to use free will could cause even bigger problems. Remember, God gave us free will.

"I'm not sure how this has turned into a religious affront, as this topic has to do with discussing whether or not a teacher should have told the children the truth."

It`s not the idea of the teacher telling what you believe as being truth. It`s the idea some people want to control others use of free will. You don`t have the right to regulate free will. No more then those who don`t feel you have the right to teach your children about Jesus or God. And if your going to say that one is a lie, and the other isn`t, what one may call a lie, another may call it truth. In other words, we can believe in whatever we want without someone judging us for it. We have no right to take away someones elses belief system.

"You do not have to be a Christian to say the parents should not have lied to their children."

Some may feel the same way about your belief system, it`s a two way street. I happen to believe in both. My choice, not someone elses to make or judge.

"Many Christians perpetuate the santa myth, though I see a contradiction in that belief."

So what, it`s their God given right. Live and let live is the name of the game. You compair your belief system with theirs, and find it different, so?

"If we could remain within the topic, it may add some clarity for the situation to those (including myself) who do not see a connection between the mythological flying reindeer pilot and the Christian faith."

This is within the topic. It`s about truth, and what we see as truth. As I stated before, what one may see as a truth, may not be seen as a truth by another, it works both ways. As I said, I believe in both, and even if the teacher thought they were right in saying what they did to those kids was the truth, they should have told the kids eveyone has a right to believe what they want. The teacher placed his/her belief over theirs, and that`s not right. I don`t tell others what they can think, feel, do or believe, why should I stand for others doing it to me, or to someone else?












[edit on 16-12-2008 by FiatLux]



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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This situation is a reflection of our Society, and how we teach our children that there is a grey area when it comes to lies therefore a grey area in potenetially all our actions.

A lie is a lie irregardless of it's simplicity!

What are we doing when we lie to our children? Whats the purpose? Are we trying to relive the innocence WE once had through are children by extending it in any fashion we can; Santa Claus, Easter bunny...even Halloween: all pagansistic ritulas that we consider to be the norm of Christianity, Halloween the exception, which is consider an innnocent holiday.

The parent's should be angry with themselves for being naive of what these lie's cost our Society, and how it is being glamourized by Corporate America.

I say Shame on you Parent's, and i applaud the teacher.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Dreadlee
 


I say shame on you for such a narrow minded veiw. Open your mind once in a while instead of locking out the world around you. This is my opinion.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by Totakeke
 


Nobody said Santa was God. Where did you pick that up from? Just because someone tells the story of Santa? People are free to tell what stories they want, even if you don`t agree with them.



posted on Dec, 16 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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Oh boy.... I know I'm going to get slaughtered for this one however, I am not here to insult God... But, there's more concrete proof of Santa than there is for God. The history of Santa is a timeline you can follow... God is belief.


Lol I'm not going to slaughter you (I can't vouch for anyone else, however).

I would, however, like to disagree. While there is concrete proof of Santa, there is no proof (and never will be) of a magical man dressed in a red suit that gets pulled by reindeer and delivers presents to children around the world all while never being seen and doing this in a matter of hours.

Human Santa existed and did a wonderful thing. Commercial Santa doesn't exist.





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