Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

reply to post by kerrichin


So are so correct! We don't learn anything from that. Although, with subject like this: It's amazing that it hasn't fallen to that. *knocking on wood*

reply to post by saint4God


I'd like to thank you for your tolerance and input as well. Many times you had taken some "beatings" (as I saw) but your inpt was invaluable! Thank you!

Originally posted by blueorder
I trust you let them make up their own mind about which religion to follow as well?

Of course. Even if someone 'forces' a child to follow a belief, there comes an age where they will decide for themselves anyway (usually between 14 and 22). In the case of 'force', that tends to harbour rejection and resentment anyway. My child and I have a lot of discussions about beliefs. She believes some things I don't and vice-versa, but we've got a lot in common to my surprise. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic however.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Jkd Up
I'd like to thank you for your tolerance and input as well. Many times you had taken some "beatings" (as I saw) but your inpt was invaluable! Thank you!

Thank you! , I don't feel persecuted here (nor do I feel mere words can be called persecution). Even when someone is angry with the things I say, I can see they're well-intentioned most of the time.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Of course. Even if someone 'forces' a child to follow a belief, there comes an age where they will decide for themselves anyway (usually between 14 and 22). In the case of 'force', that tends to harbour rejection and resentment anyway. My child and I have a lot of discussions about beliefs. She believes some things I don't and vice-versa, but we've got a lot in common to my surprise. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic however.

[edit on 15-12-2008 by saint4God]

Just wondering what your take on the religious upbringing of your child was, and it sounds like a sensible one.

Back to Santa, my own take is there is no harm in such little fantasies- people may call them lies, but this is life, and little kids need a little fantasy within boundaries

I was under the impression that Santa was real until I found some presents hidden under my mum and dad's bed- I did not resent them in the slightests and actually appreciated their efforts at keeping a bit of wonder to my childhood as long as possible, childhoods seem to end too quickly these days..........

I just wanted to thank everyone myself for all the interest in this topic. I believe it shows how everyone has a differing opinion about it. Yes, some of it may have been a littled heated, but that is only expected with so much diversity within humanity. So if I may have offended anyone, I`m sorry, it was never intended. It does show how we CAN come together even if it is only for discussion. All of you that partake of the board here are great. So, take care, bless all of you, and enjoy the coming holiday.

I'm still amazed we went 28 pages with this thread.

If nothing else, that proves to my son that Santa is a highly debateable subject. One that doesn't have any concrete answers. As there are many many people who feel differently about this.

I found some good reasons why Christians should not perpetuate the modern Santa myth:

1.) Parents Have to Lie About Santa Claus. On ATS this seems pretty much agreed, the dispute is in how much it can damage a child.

2.) Parents’ Lies About Santa Claus Have to Grow. A lot of times children will ask things like "we don't have a chimney, will Santa still come?"

3.) Santa Claus Lies Discourage Healthy Skepticism. Sometimes the answer becomes, "he just knows if you're naughty or nice. Stop asking questions".

4.) The Reward & Punishment System of Santa Claus is Unjust. Someone mentioned this earlier, poorer families are considered 'punished' whereas rich families are rewarded.

5.) Santa Claus is More About Parents than Children. Some parents get a giggle out of deceiving their children, "isn't that cute...they're so naive...er...innocent".

6.) The myth takes away from the history. There was a Saint Nicholas who gave to the poor in recognition of Christ's message. Christ-mas is about Christ, not Santa.

7.) The Santa lie betrays the trust a child has for their parents to tell them the truth.



[edit on 15-12-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God



if you really want to be factual about it, why not tell them the story of St. Nicholas and how he became the Dutch Sinter Klaas/Santa Claus?

Originally posted by Lug
if you really want to be factual about it, why not tell them the story of St. Nicholas and how he became the Dutch Sinter Klaas/Santa Claus?

Hehe, after I added that in on the edit your post came up. Got it and good call.

P.S. I'm a big fan of Poe myself, still reading the Complete Tales & Poems

reply to post by saint4God


In Holland, there was (for a long time) only ONE person who played the role every year. The man would come riding a huge white horse and be accompanied by his helpers, visiting every main community in the country over the course of the 12 days of Christmas.

I don't know if the tradition is still done in the same way, but it sure is a much more believable system than having a Santa in every shopping mall in the country.



(Poe is great, I agree)

reply to post by saint4God

In responce to what you feel, here is my take on it.
"1.) Parents Have to Lie About Santa Claus. On ATS this seems pretty much agreed, the dispute is in how much it can damage a child."

My take. 1.) Parents CAN tell the story about Santa Claus. It does not always damage a child. It can be told so that the child understands the reasons for the Santa story.

"2.) Parents’ Lies About Santa Claus Have to Grow. A lot of times children will ask things like "we don't have a chimney, will Santa still come?"

My take. 2.) If the story is told right, you can add to it as you tell it, children sometimes do ask questions as you tell the story. It`s nothing more then a story of giving from the heart.

"3.) Santa Claus Lies Discourage Healthy Skepticism. Sometimes the answer becomes, "he just knows if you're naughty or nice. Stop asking questions"."

My take. 3.) Not always. If you are a good parent, you encourage your children to ask questions about such things. If a child asks if Santa IS real, you don`t tell them yes, you tell them that it is a story, just like the cartoons they watch on Saturday mornings.

"4.) The Reward & Punishment System of Santa Claus is Unjust. Someone mentioned this earlier, poorer families are considered 'punished' whereas rich families are rewarded."


My take. 4.) My children asked me about this. I told them that sometimes Santa does not have enough toys to go around for everybody. They in turn told me about three families whos children didn`t have a Christmas the year before, and then asked if we could play Santa for them. So we got together with our friends, went and bought gifts for those families, and all of us had a wondeful time. I was so pround of my kids for wanting to do this. What this did, was told me that not all children are greedy at heart, but have as much or even more love in their hearts as most parents.

"5.) Santa Claus is More About Parents than Children. Some parents get a giggle out of deceiving their children, "isn't that cute...they're so naive...er...innocent"."

My take. 5.) Santa can be used in that way, only if you are cold hearted with no feelings towards others. Not all parents who do tell their kids about Santa are like this. Some do have hearts and love their kids enough to explain the reasons for a Santa. And its not the evil Santa you want to make him out as being.

"6.) The myth takes away from the history. There was a Saint Nicholas who gave to the poor in recognition of Christ's message. Christ-mas is about Christ, not Santa."

My take. 6.) Not always in this case. As I told my kids, we continue the tradition of St. Nick, as a way of showing compassion and good will towards others who may not have as much as us. Do you think Christ would not like us doing that?

'7.) The Santa lie betrays the trust a child has for their parents to tell them the truth."

My take. 7.) I asked my oldest child(32yo) about this today, and if she felt betrayed by me for telling them about Santa. Her responce was, "How do you feel betrayed by your parents, when you know it is just a story, and you know it is to teach us compassion for others?" She said that if anyone feels betrayed, then the problem goes deeper then just the Santa story.


I let her read this topic today. She could not believe some of the responces about this. She said that anyone, who felt betrayed by this, needs to learn trust, understanding, compassion and love. Even my kids knew it was a story from the start, and nothing more. I asked her if she knew it was just a story, then why did she look at Santa as being real. She said that as a kid, we made him real in our hearts and minds, that it was a fun thing to do when your little. She said, why not, weren`t we suppose to? It didn`t make us mean people did it?

Now, would you like me to tell her that it did? And please, if you say yes, explain to me just how it did make her mean. She is setting here, waiting to see what you may have to say about this.

I think she just spent all the truth she knows.

Not to worry kids and parents.

The teacher may not have been tactful about it, but she did the right thing. Lying to your children is wrong. It's nothing more than teaching them to lie. If you're pagan, it doesn't matter 'cause you can believe whatever you want to, but when a Christian does it, he betrays the one who died for him and commits a great sin. Because Satan is a liar and the father of lies. And those who lie and teach others to lie are the children of their father. Who does what they see their fathers do. Christians want to ignore this fact to their peril. They know or ought to know that there will be a judgement day and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I regret dreadfully that I ever lied to my kids. It's only added bad karma to the world. If adults can't be strong enough to tell the truth when it's unpopular and nobody else will, how can we ever build a solid dependable future for our children? Only a fool builds his house on sand where storms and oceans can break thru and demolish the structure but smart people build their homes on rock where those things can do little damage. Just my opinion.

Originally posted by Lug
reply to post by saint4God

 

In Holland, there was (for a long time) only ONE person who played the role every year. The man would come riding a huge white horse and be accompanied by his helpers, visiting every main community in the country over the course of the 12 days of Christmas.

I don't know if the tradition is still done in the same way, but it sure is a much more believable system than having a Santa in every shopping mall in the country.

My Stepfather has been Santa in our community for over 50 years. Each year he visits all the childrens hospitals in the area. He also hooks up with many of the Churches in the area and visits underpriviledged families and passes out gifts and food. He also changes his personal phone message each year to be a message from Santa.

Keep in mind, not only has he been doing this for over 50 years, he was my Santa before my father passed and my mother remarried when I was 17. Also, he has had two heart attacks. But each year he is driven to do it again. He's never at home during December evenings, as almost every night he is busy.

Kinda reminds me of the story you were telling as well.

Yep... Santa is pretty real. As real as Angels.

Originally posted by ZenaV
The teacher may not have been tactful about it, but she did the right thing. Lying to your children is wrong. It's nothing more than teaching them to lie. If you're pagan, it doesn't matter 'cause you can believe whatever you want to, but when a Christian does it, he betrays the one who died for him and commits a great sin. Because Satan is a liar and the father of lies. And those who lie and teach others to lie are the children of their father. Who does what they see their fathers do. Christians want to ignore this fact to their peril. They know or ought to know that there will be a judgement day and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I regret dreadfully that I ever lied to my kids. It's only added bad karma to the world. If adults can't be strong enough to tell the truth when it's unpopular and nobody else will, how can we ever build a solid dependable future for our children? Only a fool builds his house on sand where storms and oceans can break thru and demolish the structure but smart people build their homes on rock where those things can do little damage. Just my opinion.

I don't agree, I would doubt very much that the rules God applies to kids applies to adults, is he gonna send a baby to hell for example for not admitting he is saved?!?!?

I was told the Santa tale and know that lying is wrong- not everything that applies to the adult world applies to kids, hence they arent shown porn at 7

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by ZenaV
The teacher may not have been tactful about it, but she did the right thing. Lying to your children is wrong. It's nothing more than teaching them to lie. If you're pagan, it doesn't matter 'cause you can believe whatever you want to, but when a Christian does it, he betrays the one who died for him and commits a great sin. Because Satan is a liar and the father of lies. And those who lie and teach others to lie are the children of their father. Who does what they see their fathers do. Christians want to ignore this fact to their peril. They know or ought to know that there will be a judgement day and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. I regret dreadfully that I ever lied to my kids. It's only added bad karma to the world. If adults can't be strong enough to tell the truth when it's unpopular and nobody else will, how can we ever build a solid dependable future for our children? Only a fool builds his house on sand where storms and oceans can break thru and demolish the structure but smart people build their homes on rock where those things can do little damage. Just my opinion.

I don't agree, I would doubt very much that the rules God applies to kids applies to adults, is he gonna send a baby to hell for example for not admitting he is saved?!?!?

I was told the Santa tale and know that lying is wrong- not everything that applies to the adult world applies to kids, hence they arent shown porn at 7

agree, there are many examples of why we should lie as you call it to children, i keep repeating this.
it isnt lieing when you are protecting a child from the brutal reality.
children have a right to be children and enjoy it we all know childhood doent last that long and it seems even shorter these days.

i think santa is an option for the parents not an adult that is outside the main family unit.

i have to say that i disagree with commeralising santa like now, especially when i see homer simpson dressed as santa in peoples gardens.
but telling the story of what santa did, giving presents to people who are needy.
giving instead of receiving, things like that.

we were always taught that the milk and cookies and the carrot for the reaindeers were to say thank you not payment for the presents things like that.
teaching children that if they are good they will be rewarded, not meaning if your good all year youll get presents like a form of bribery but if you are kind to people you will be rewared with friendship and yes swapping gifts is a part of it.
not if your bad you will go to hell and burn, to me that is mentaly scarring kids

giving is better than receiving i was always taught.
and to this day i still get a buzz from buying gift for people

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive!:
Santa and the space-time continuum

They have just rejected the congestion charge. So they don't care if they all sufforcate in Manchester. They are all mad up there anyway.

Originally posted by Jkd Up
That's why I've gotta wonder about stuff like this. The Easter Bunny... WHat's he gotta do with Christ dying or the Harvest season?

Like all other Christian holidays, the Easter Bunny is a plagiarised pagan fertility symbol tacked onto the whole rebirth/spring festival that is Easter to make it more acceptable to "heathens".

Originally posted by Jkd Up
Why do we make these storys up just so we can dimean and lie to our kids. I know it's all ment as "white" lies and innocent fun, but then we wonder why our kids have truth issues...?

That's a bit melodramatic. it's part of the magic at Christmas. Do you have kids? I have two five year olds, a boy and a girl.

If their teacher told them Santa was a fake, I'd be effing livid.

Not because "my lies were exposed", but because they have just ripped away another layer of Childhood innocence and completely ruined the magic at Christmas.