Teacher tells 7 year-olds Santa's Fake.

Absolutely hilarious. Wish I coulda been there

Here is an idea, it may sound crazy and wacky but here goes...... How about we just dont lie to children in the first place? I mean a fat guy dressed in red burgling our homes?

I believe the Santa clause myth may be a very positive development tool for a child.

At some point a childs logic and reasoning skills will put Santa into question. As the child learns more of how the physical world functions things such as a fat Santa fitting down a chimeny are questioned.

It also teaches that parents and others in positions of authority, no matter how sincere and well meaning, may not always be 100% truthful, thereby teaching the child to think for his/her self.

All in all I think Santa is a good thing for a child.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


may i fast forward that concept to its most extreme conclusion ?

where do you draw the line ?

santa may be a " harmless fib " - but cetain parents seem to be getting quite uptight over it - it made national teevee news

you are argueing that parents should be allowed to lie to thier kids about santa - and 3rd parties should not interject the truth

now where do you draw the line ?

what if parents are telling their kids that negroes are untermenchen who should have no rights ?

sureley everyone would agree that it is right to counter such a vile lie right ?

but in between thes 2 extreeme exaples there is a VAST middle ground - so when does a 3rd party have a right / obligation to correct parental lies ?

I read some of these posts, but had to stop myself. What exactly is wrong with a child believing in a bit of Christmas magic? I suppose I should stop having those tea parties with my daughter as well since the tea is not real. She needs to be taught that hard truth now. And let's not forget her little play stove. I suppose I shouldn't allow my husband to pretend he is eating that slice of pie because it's not real either.

Seriously now. Does anyone understand the concept of imagination? Do you understand how children explore the world around them through play and pretending? Why would anyone advocate taking away from that sparkle a child has when their allowed to imagine anything they want?

Santa is just one of many things that magically exist in their minds and I feel no shame in allowing that notion to continue until they decide differently.

My son knows now that Santa is not a fat guy in a red suit, but a way to give the spirit of Christmas a face. He still plans on setting out cookies and milk with his sisters. He'll still put the bells on the fireplace screen to help the girls catch a glimpse of that fat guy and I'll watch all of it with a smile. My son is in effect giving his little sisters the gift of his time, attention and love. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

So hum-bug all you Scrooges out there who think a child has no business believing that anything is possible.

im going to to tell my kids the truth

They have all the time to learn the truth. To learn that after all, the world they live in is full of blood, death, atrocities, psychos, fanatics, pedophiles, instead of santa, elves and pixies, tooth fairies and animals that talk. The world is much better that way... no need to rush children out to a violent and sad world.

Let children enjoy their childhood. Of course Santa is real! I remember that my world was so much more fun back then...

Originally posted by Jkd Up
The parents are upset at the teacher... For tellign them the TRUTH.

Exactly. Well said.

Or the parents are upset at the teacher for letting their kids know they lied to them.

The idea of a "magical present man" is a con. And it cons the parents more than the kids. Now you must purchase something, or your kids will feel that they have been "bad". And most kids don't comprehend the idea of Santa having a budget. Emotional blackmail supported by peer pressure.

And for those who think Santa is a good thing, because it makes kids happy - if you have to lie to children to make them happy, something is very wrong. I suggest you find out what it is.

Christmas is just a clever marketing technique, supported by evil, greedy people. It's designed to make people spend more than they can afford, or feel like a ****.

[edit on 12/12/08 by NuclearPaul]

I don't think the problem here is imagination. Being imaginative is fine, even encouraged. However, while children sort of "imagine" Santa they also believe he is real. Remember, Santa isn't imaginary to children, he is a very real person and can actually do all of the wonderful things people say he can do.

Santa himself also seems very "works-based." I mean, supposedly if you're good you get presents and if you're bad you get coal. First, I think we need to ask whether this is teaching children that every time they're good they're going to get some kind of reward. Christmas is all about giving and that should be the first thing children learn. (It might also prevent the "mine!" phase.) Second, it's a lot harder to cope when you're at such a young and impressionable age and you find out that your parents lied to you for all of those years. Children at that age are too young to understand the real meaning behind Santa, like kindness, joy, etc.

Originally posted by Totakeke

I can't believe you actually want people to believe in Talking Donkeys and Magical Gods but not Santa Claus.... Sure... those things MIGHT be real..

Well, I believe what I want and you believe what you want. As for "talking donkeys" and "magical Gods," I suggest stepping down off the pedestal and maybe respecting people's beliefs a little bit more, because honestly, you're being rude. Everyone doesn't have to believe what you believe, right? We can all coexist peacefully and believe different things.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Totakeke]

That's my point. Respect childrens beliefs in Santa Claus as much as we respect Adults beliefs in God.

Thank you for agreeing.

I wasn't being rude at all btw.. just driving my point home with a little mirror.

My personal beliefs by the way, is that Santa is as real as God. I know that in the mind of many children, Santa is very real. I also know that in the mind of many adults, God is very real.

I assume just to respect both, because it is these narratives that give life meaning. I will however deride any of them if someone assumes that one is somehow more objectively real than another.

Because my belief is that the subjective life of people is the only thing that really matters. Anything I do in the objective world servers only the subjective self, my own and others.

On a side note.. Paul actually had the same perrspective.. Romans 14:14

For what it's worth.







[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

There is a way to present the truth amidst the myth (not lie). Santa does in fact exist, just not in the sense that he has come to be in modern times.

First, Bishop Nicholas did live. He was wealthy and loved children. He gave to poor kids to help bring some cheer to their lives. He was raised up by the Roman Catholic church and sanctified as Saint Nicholas, the patron saint of children.
This truth evolved into legend through Russia, Germany and the Dutch brought Sinter Klaas to America. The name evolved from Saint Claus (pron. klous), from the German mythos, and later was coined as Saint A Claus by Washington Irving, which later became the name we know today to be Santa Claus.

So, like most myths, Santa is based on the truth of one man's generosity towards children. For those of you saying that Santa is not a religious figure, you are wrong. The man was a Bishop, the Catholic church sainted him and Russia built a church in his honor. Sounds like he is a religious figure to me.
I suppose it only makes sense that Christians would put Santa's annual charity on the same day as Jesus' birth.

I wont get into the fact that Jesus was not born on Dec 25, nor will I get into the fact that Saint Nicholas was associated with Dec 6. Just let that all work itself out in the grand scheme of things.

What does all of the above have to do with the OT? Easy, I thought she was a "teacher". I would think that teaching would be what she would want to do. I understand they are children. I also realize that a real teacher can take a story and use it to grab the attention of her students. Perhaps if she would have opted to tell the story of Santa instead of saying he didnt exist, perhaps even one of these kids could go home and tell their parents what they learned about Santa instead of crying that he doesnt exist.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by wheresthetruth]

That's my point. Respect childrens beliefs in Santa Claus as much as we respect Adults beliefs in God. Thank you for agreeing. I wasn't being rude at all btw.. just driving my point home with a little mirror. Looks like it worked.

No. I am not agreeing with you. Santa is a lie. A little white lie, but a lie. And for some children, that could cause problems later in life, specifically trust problems.
Santa is not a religion and is certainly of human and Earthly origin. (Okay. He might have been a real person, but the modern, commercial Santa is definitely different. Children don't picture a man from hundreds of years ago giving away toys when they think of Santa.)

As for you talking about "pillars of fire" and "magic Gods" and "talking donkeys," that was very offensive. You don't believe in God. We get it. Making jokes about another religion is definitely not respecting other people's beliefs.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Totakeke

That's my point. Respect childrens beliefs in Santa Claus as much as we respect Adults beliefs in God. Thank you for agreeing. I wasn't being rude at all btw.. just driving my point home with a little mirror. Looks like it worked.

No. I am not agreeing with you. Santa is a lie. A little white lie, but a lie.

I don't understand how you can say Santa is a Lie and God isn't.


When I tell my son there is a God, I know I'm lying. But I'm giving him an interface to the universe via an familiar face.

How is that any different than Santa?


I mean.. your parents were lying to you to when they told you about God. Do you somehow distrust them?


Or maybe you just haven't woken from the spell of God as you have the spell of Santa.

And I made fun of pillars of fire and talking donkeys because you made fun of the north pole and reindeer. I really don't see a difference.

Honeslty though my point wasn't to make fun of them, but to ask how you can prove those things objectively as you mentioned the North Pole Claus Hotel couldnt be proven objectively.


Your problem is that YOU believe in God but don't believe in allowing others to have beliefs different from yours.

You want to act as if the myth of God is somehow higher and mightier than the myth of Santa. How many people have been slaughtered in the name of Santa?



[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

When I tell my son there is a God, I know I'm lying. But I'm giving him an interface to the universe via an familiar face.

There's a difference between God and Santa. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

You cannot just sit there and say God is a lie. Nobody knows for sure. (again, to reiterate) You either believe it or you don't. Santa, however, definitely does not exist.

Santa is a lie. Your parents eat the cookies, your parents put the presents under the tree. I don't think there's any debate about that. God is different. He may be a lie to you, but He is the truth for me.

And I made fun of pillars of fire and talking donkeys because you made fun of the north pole and reindeer. I really don't see a difference.

Honeslty though my point wasn't to make fun of them, but to ask how you can prove those things objectively as you mentioned the North Pole Claus Hotel couldnt be proven objectively.

So you're going to sit there and tell me that Santa is real? You can prove Santa, you can't prove God.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Totakeke]

reply to post by Totakeke


Once again... I can't prove God or Santa.


I've never seen a Donkey Talk and I've never seen a Reindeer fly.

So you are right... neither of those can be proven.


Why don't you just admit that it's ok to believe in mythical stuff? I mean.. you obviously believe in God of some sort... do you believe in Zeus too? How about Zoraster? Buddha? Allah? Baal? Melkor? Flying Spaghetti Monsters?

They were all made up by the mind of man, either consciously (lie) or unconsciously (still a lie). You want to respect one... then you better respect them all.


Otherwise you are no better than the swine in Animal Farm.

BTW, to your analogy of parents actively lying to their children about the cookies etc.

You ever seen a Jewish Passover? You do know you save a seat right?

How about catholic communion... you do realize that's not symbolic right? I mean it's ACTUALLY the body of Christ. Just ask any Catholic Priest...

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

They were all made up by the mind of man, either consciously (lie) or unconsciously (still a lie). You want to respect one... then you better respect them all.

God was made up by a man? Prove it. You seem very sure. There are a lot of important people who would like to know once and for all whether God is a lie.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Totakeke]

Originally posted by Totakeke
Santa is a lie. A little white lie, but a lie. And for some children, that could cause problems later in life, specifically trust problems.

The only reason it's called a "white" lie is to make the person who said it feel better.

I agree with the trust problems big time. I remember when I was 6yo demanding to know the truth about him (I'd already worked it out), so Mum told me. Wasn't devastated or anything, but that's when I realized that Mum didn't always tell the truth.

Originally posted by nyk537
I don't look at Santa Claus as a lie at all. I see nothing wrong with letting children believe in something magical, especially in a world where there is very little left to believe in.

Children should be taught in what is real AND magical

Santa was conjured up from those tales of St Nicholas (saint nicholas saintnicolas santniclas santaclaus Santa Clause)

He literally is an Anti-Christ. (I'm not protesting that) .. but literally.. he has taken the place of Christ as your happy holiday worshipful one.. and believe me you'll see his face a million times more than christ's during the holiday season.
He doesn't represent giving..
he represents greed.
His red suit subconsciously makes activates the pleasure and craving centers of children's brains.
When they see Santa.. they think .. "WHAT WILL I GET".. me me me
thats what the subconscious says when a kid sees the plato's cave shadow-puppet image of "Santa" .. they think (consciously or not) .. they think "GIVE MEEE what will he GIVE MEE" I WANT .. MEE.

thats what happens whether you like it or not.

it's an image conjured up by the commercial forces.. just like valentines day and Halloween.. from early traditions.. into literal "booster shots" .. "steroids" for the economy.
juuust to get over that hill.. boom Xmas is here.. and the economy does a little jig.

now ask me where we'd have been during our best of times economically WITHOUT "Santa" to be the mascot of our economic forces?
not as "well off" as we would have been
but it's also the reason of many people being in massive debt.

the guilt of not giving.
giving to those insatiable mouths that want want want me me me

if santa is the last bastion you can muster to bring "magic" and "wonder" to your kid's childhood.. then I say you're a mindless and unimaginative shell of a human that shouldn't be allowed to have kids anyway.

Bring your kids REAL MAGIC. something REAL to believe in.

and you get all huffy puffy about ruining this desperate commercial lie.. because you're so desperate yourself for comfort and happiness in a chaotic world.
so you rely on someone else's machination.
paaathetic.
get real.
you suck at parenting.

Originally posted by th3dudeabides
A teacher who perptuates a lie is not one worth learning from. The best teachers always blow your mind, teach you to think in new ways, challenge your individual paradigm. The truth only hurts because of the initial lie and betrayal of trust. Parents who are pissed at teachers who engage in this behavior are BAD parents, there I said it. They are Idiots that fill their children's head full of nonsense, deluding and lobotimizing them until they don't know whats real. That's why so many people are ignorant as hell these days. It all goes back to when and how they found out about Santa. Santa is evil and must be stopped.

true. and double true.

people are brainwashed cows.
oooh it's xmas time.. NOW i should give.. is it time for me to give yet santa?
no not yet?
just tell me when santa.
NOW? ok now! yaaay xmas time..
when should i rely on you to bring my children magical lies, that fill the void my vacuous consumer cow mind can't fill.


I can't wait for the aliens to come and inform people that Christ isn't real either.
I bet the Evangalists will be saying the same thing the parents on this thread are saying.
"Why'd you have to tell them?!! They need magic in their lives even if it's a lie!! They've proven they can't fill their lives with their OWN REAL magic.. we needed that to fill that void! now what do we do?!!"

man sometimes it's embarrassing to share the planet with people like this.

-

[edit on 12-12-2008 by prevenge]

Originally posted by Totakeke

They were all made up by the mind of man, either consciously (lie) or unconsciously (still a lie). You want to respect one... then you better respect them all.

God was made up by a man? Prove it. You seem very sure. There are a lot of important people who would like to know once and for all whether God is a lie.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Totakeke]

Can you prove to me that Catholic communion is not symbolic and ACTUALLY the body of Christ as Catholic Priests would have you believe?

Is that not a lie? I could pretty easily prove that.

What about the Baptists belief that you must be baptized to get into heaven? That's an outright lie as well. Not only because there is no actual heaven other than the one at hand, but also because there is no real scripture that backs that up.

And to answer your question. The reason I know God was made in the mind of man, other than serious existential pursuits, is that history is full of them... every indigenous people made up different gods, am I to assume they are all real? Which one is fake? Which one isn't?



[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by Totakeke
Santa is a lie. A little white lie, but a lie. And for some children, that could cause problems later in life, specifically trust problems.

The only reason it's called a "white" lie is to make the person who said it feel better.

I agree with the trust problems big time. I remember when I was 6yo demanding to know the truth about him (I'd already worked it out), so Mum told me. Wasn't devastated or anything, but that's when I realized that Mum didn't always tell the truth.

And that was a lesson learned about 6 years late don't ya think? I mean.. .learning that those closest to you can lie and will lie is a pretty important lesson if you want to survive.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]