Originally posted by franspeakfree
The truth is its not just the americans that are dumb and oblivious to what is happening and has happened, ts the entire world and if the entire world were to wake up after the chaos life would never be the same again. Its a scary thought.

In addition I have shown several of my colleagues this video and guess what the reaction was? the sad fact is the majority of people do not want to know the truth as long as they are ok. It makes my blood boil!

Just because someone's logic process and propensity for common sense is not the same as your own, doesn't mean they are "dumb" and oblivious.

The fact of the matter, is that those who firmly believe that this was an inside job are heavily biased, and will twist anything brought forward so that it fits their theory. I've already seen it happen with topics like the Pentagon crash. People ignore the things that they can't explain, but insist that it's a conspiracy based on the facts they have decided are strongest for their case. But there is no damning, solid proof.

I don't believe for a moment that something this huge, that would involved probably hundreds or perhaps thousands of people in a coordinated effort, would be covered up with such skill. There has been no smoking guns, no solid proof (admissions, photographs or video of a damning nature, like of explosives, etc.), no one for whom the guilt of murdering thousands of innocent civilians got the better of them, and admitted they were involved.

People are basing their entire premise on comments heard in the heat of a bad situation like "pull out," as if that proves without a doubt that it was a coverup. And you know, I am open-minded. If someone can provide further proof of a more concrete nature that will make me consider this is a coverup, I'll jump on this bandwagon. But I am not going to take several things that occurred and connect them together in my mind, to make it into something more sinistar. Just because A and B and C happened, doesn't mean to me that they cumulatively add up to a conspiracy. Could someone yelling "pull it" mean something else? Yes, it's possible. Could a reporter screw up his report? I'd assume that, long before I'd assume that the media actually KNEW of this, and were involved, and also did nothing to stop it. The fact that a steel structure collapsed due to fire (from the official story) for the first time, means that it may well collapse in a way that we are not familiar with. Just like we are not really certain what two jumbo jets flying into the middle of a huge building would do, nor the effect of a jet flying into a hardened concrete structure.

I'm still wondering this: If this really happened.. and the WTC was a conspiracy.. and the flight into the Pengtagon was a setup, why hasn't there been a shred of serious evidence? Pictures of people planting explosives, or of the explosives after they were placed (or noticed them placing them at all, since it would take a huge team a serious effort to plant all those explosives in say, the WTC). No pictures of people planting wreckage, no pictures or witnesses for planes flying away (Pentagon), not a single person coming forward and admitting this was an inside job, and they were involved? All we have is guesswork and heavily biased opinions. Don't get angry with Americans for not joining your crusade, when it can't provide these more concrete bits of proof for your accusations.

Originally posted by thedman
As for noise - ever see a building collapse? Makes a lot of noise as it
falls, including booming noises as the floors collapse into each other

But yet you guys claim that explosives would have to have been heard during this collapse?

Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Does anyone remember which building was reported to have collapsed on a british news program? I don't remember which building it was, but the reports were staing that it had fallen even though it was clearly visible in the background. The broadcast was then cut out due to "technical difficulties". If they were referencing WTC7, it would only make sense that they had prior knowledge of the fall, i.e.-demolition.

Originally posted by thedman
The temperature was kept high by fires burning in the rubble for weeks,
the rubble covering it acting as a lid keeping the heat in - same as in a
mine fire

The only reason coal mine fires last for years and decades is because no firefighting effort can be made to quench the fire in a coal seam.

Now, please explain what all those millions of gallons of water would do to your "mine fire" in the rubble piles.

[edit on 12/12/2008 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by thedman
As for noise - ever see a building collapse? Makes a lot of noise as it
falls, including booming noises as the floors collapse into each other

But yet you guys claim that explosives would have to have been heard during this collapse?

Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Hence the need for some calcs about how much explosives, or TB's would be needed to do what you are basing your working hypothesis on.

When will you do this?

Originally posted by Leo Strauss
Now with that thought "freefall" in mind imagine the tons of steel and concrete hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of welds and bolts. Then say to yourself the building fell as if there was nothing but air and open space below...freefall. Not possible.

Also keep in mind that buckled columns still have some resistance to them. So, the only way to have a freefall is to remove the column's resistance 100%.

I'm relatively new to this game, but have some experience with scientific reporting. This was a gigantic forensic evaluation of a complex and almost unprecedented event and the group of engineers and physicists evaluating initially made some assumptions that weren't correct. Like real scientists, they are trying to get closer to a full understanding.

The Truthers seem to jump on anything and everything that will discredit these people. The counter claims seem to be mostly from general knowledge and experience rather than studied knowledge/

The dissenters, as far as I can see, are merely looking for holes to pick and openings for other explanations of the data provided by those involved in evaluating the destruction of these structures.

This all just gets more and more like some ego game rather than an attempt to understand what happened, how, and why.


Mike F

So could it not have been possible for a terrorist to plant a bomb in the basement? Osama himself was amazed that the twin towers fell down. The plot was to take out as many people as possible, so a bomb in another area of the building could also have been part of the plot.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by KIRKSTERUK]

Originally posted by mmiichael


I'm relatively new to this game, but have some experience with scientific reporting. This was a gigantic forensic evaluation of a complex and almost unprecedented event and the group of engineers and physicists evaluating initially made some assumptions that weren't correct. Like real scientists, they are trying to get closer to a full understanding.

The Truthers seem to jump on anything and everything that will discredit these people. The counter claims seem to be mostly from general knowledge and experience rather than studied knowledge/

The dissenters, as far as I can see, are merely looking for holes to pick and openings for other explanations of the data provided by those involved in evaluating the destruction of these structures.

This all just gets more and more like some ego game rather than an attempt to understand what happened, how, and why.

Mike F

They spent more money investigating Bill Clinton getting a BJ than the 9/11 attacks,all the columns were taken away and melted...none remain..hardly a huge forensic job.