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Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by Achorwrath
The kinetic energy released by the impact of AA Flight 11 was
= 0.5 x 395,000 x (689)^2/32.174
= 2.914 billion ft lbs force
Your units don't work.
1/2mv^2 would equal lbs x ft^2/sec^2
Not ft-lbs force.
Again, you are mixing up force with energy (which has the units of Joules (lb-ft^2/sec^2)).
The two planes hit at lest 2 times and 175 hit at almost 4 times this force
Again. Pick one. Either energy or force. They are NOT the same.
1 joule of energy = 0.7376 ft.lb
1 foot pound = effort to lift a pound a foot = 1.3557 J
Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by Achorwrath
and if the colums are compromised? As is indicated by the video? remember there was only central support all the way through the center of the building.
The exterior support colums did not start until Floor 5
OK. So, you just shot yourself in the foot.
If the exterior columns didn't start until the fifth floor, then any damage to the exterior columns would be negligible when considering the interior columns. Since the interior columns would be used as 100% of the gravity resistance.
[edit on 3/17/2009 by Griff]
"Composite construction usually refers to a construction method in which a cast-in-place concrete slab is bonded to steel beams, girders, or decking below, such that the two materials act as a single unit"
Originally posted by Achorwrath
As I posted in the link above they used tranfer beams to shift the gravity load from the exterior colums to the central ones. so if they go you actuall are much worse off
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Are you forgetting inertia/kinetic energy?
I never said the outer wall made up the gravity support, in fact I think all along I have said Lateral support. but as the floor beam tied into both the outer curtain colums and the cnetral core (with nothing supporting them in between) I do not see how you can possibly expect the central core to bear all of that weight.
…also not in the engineering information that the outer collums provided "much of the building strength"
So that means the 767 hit the tower with approximately 124,585,892.48 Pounds of force.
Do you really think there was no damage to the central core after that?
rememer the central core was not designed to take lateral sawy and the building would have made a huge shift, after all the body in motion (the plane) would have tried to impart its inertia/kinetic energy into the body at rest (the building) people in the upper floors reported being thrown to the ground after the impact.
the elevators and stairs were damaged (as reported by firefighters and people that were in the upper floors) this means the central core was compromised remember all stairwells and elevators were in the central core.
Since the exterior columns are already transferring their load at the 5th floor, how does damage to the exterior columns above this point have any affect on the interior columns that are already supporting the exterior columns?
Originally posted by Achorwrath
they also act as support for the outer wall and the floors above
since they transfer load and do not maintian it on themsleves when they got you loose support along a much greater axis.
Think about it this way, below the fifth floor there is nothing to stop them dropping 5 floors to the earth in freefall....
What do you think that would do to the rest of the building?
Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by Achorwrath
they also act as support for the outer wall and the floors above
since they transfer load and do not maintian it on themsleves when they got you loose support along a much greater axis.
I thought we were talking about the exterior columns being damaged and what it would do to the interior columns? The columns that held up the exterior the whole life of the building.
Think about it this way, below the fifth floor there is nothing to stop them dropping 5 floors to the earth in freefall....
What caused this? Also, as can be seen in video of the collapse, the interior collapses first. We see this by the roof collapsing inward....plus the east penthouse.
What do you think that would do to the rest of the building?
Shear the floors but leave most of the interior standing. Just a guess.
[edit on 3/17/2009 by Griff]
[edit on 3/17/2009 by Griff]
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Hmm the video I saw shows the whole building drop along one axis just to the left side of the penthouse, this is consistant to what I said about #79 being an internal colum and loosing the external support when it went
Originally posted by ANOK
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Hmm the video I saw shows the whole building drop along one axis just to the left side of the penthouse, this is consistant to what I said about #79 being an internal colum and loosing the external support when it went
The way they make sure the outer walls fall inward, naturally they would fall outward, when demolishing a tall building is to take out the central supports slightly ahead of the outer supports. This gives the outer walls a space to fall into.
The kink you see in the roof is typical of a classic professional demo.
Not the best pic but notice how this 'building' is dropping in the middle ahead of the outside...This is typical of demo's.
Talking out one central column will not cause global collapse, only local at best.
This is what happens when only part of a buildings supports fail...
Undamaged columns will remain standing and the weaker part of the building, walls, floors etc., collapse around the columns. It's very hard to make vertical columns collapse vertically without help from carefully placed explosives.
MORE than 375 tons of steel - requiring 12 miles of welding - will be installed to reinforce floors for Salomon's extra equipment. Sections of the existing stone facade and steel bracing will be temporarily removed so that workers using a roof crane can hoist nine diesel generators onto the tower's fifth floor, where they will become the core of a back-up power station.
Originally posted by Achorwrath
WTC7 was not a normal building,
Originally posted by ANOK
Originally posted by Achorwrath
WTC7 was not a normal building,
That's garbage.
I can see you're not here to learn, you haven't had time to check my points I just posted one minute before you replied. That's twice now.
I suggest you stop running to 9/11 myths, or whatever, for your parroted answers, and actually do some real research.
WTC was not a normal building... Regardless the laws of physics do not change.
The way they make sure the outer walls fall inward, naturally they would fall outward
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Yes in controlled demo they force the exteriror walls to either fall inward or down.
but those buildings are also prepared, internal support is also removed in many cases to get colums to collapse, charges are set to destroy certain sides of the supports. It is all tied in with tens of thousands of feet of detonating cord. and that is with a concrete supported building.
With steels (since steel bends) they usually have to demolish each support on each floor and along the curtain wall.
Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Yes in controlled demo they force the exteriror walls to either fall inward or down.
but those buildings are also prepared, internal support is also removed in many cases to get colums to collapse, charges are set to destroy certain sides of the supports. It is all tied in with tens of thousands of feet of detonating cord. and that is with a concrete supported building.
With steels (since steel bends) they usually have to demolish each support on each floor and along the curtain wall.
But, according to you and NIST, only one column needed to fail to bring down the entire building (WTC 7). Does one column need tens of thousands of explosives and det cord?
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Complete failure of a single supporting column on the outer ring of the cntral supports would cause the linked failure of outer building support.
Originally posted by Griff
Originally posted by Achorwrath
Complete failure of a single supporting column on the outer ring of the cntral supports would cause the linked failure of outer building support.
OK. I'll leave NIST out of it for a moment then.
According to you, only one column needs to fail. Why is it then equated to "tens of thousands of explosives and det cord"?