You say a soldier deserting is brave? I call it cowardly. The brave soldiers are still the ones in Iraq and Afghanistan on the front lines doing their job because that's what they signed up to do. Joining the military is not something one can do and then say later when the going get's tough that they really didn't think it would be like this, and desert.

He is not the first, and he won't be the last to desert. He's really just afraid of being killed, so he invents reasons to desert.

Keep in mind that this is NOT some 17 year old kid. This is a mature man who voluntarily enlisted, and knew full well what he was getting into. He CHOSE to join the military. But now, he decides that he doesn't like it, is afraid of being hurt or killed, and runs away.

Then, after being on the run for a year and a half, he suddenly invents these "reasons" for deserting.

I hope Germany turns him over to the Army. He deserves to spend some time in Leavenworth.

I respsect those that turn against the war and are willing to pay the price for their convictions. One of my best friends in the Army became a C/O, and spent months in the stockade because he refused to carry a weapon. he was willing to stand up for his beliefs, and I respected that.

This guy is just a coward.

He is not showing any "bravery" at all. If he were, he would stand up and take the consequences. But he wants to avoid any consequences. at all.

There are servicemen and women that have turned against the war, and NOT deserted. They were brave enough to face their problem, and do what they had to do.

This guy just ran away, and then invents some reasons. I personally hope that he is walked to an Amy Kasserne, and turned over to the MP's.

Odd they used the Term AWOL after a Year and a Half.

I used to do Human Resources for the US army.
AWOL is determined 24hrs after the time the soldier was supposed to report to a particular place. after 30 days he becomes a deserter.

However, doesn't mean his career is ruined. Depending on the reasons for his AWOL he could get out on HARDSHIP discharge(which is honorable, or general). However, during the wartime desertion is not as lenient.

There used to be a rule that once a soldier was labeled a deserter, during a peace time situation he was able to just go to the National Records, and have himself just booted out. now once and AWOL/Deserter is recovered either by arrest or turning themselves in, they are returned to their last unit they were in for out processing and or Court martial etc. etc.

Wonder what will come of this will be interesting to see.

I have a few friends in Iraq and Afghanistan, and most of them dont want to be there. They dont like the locals and one or two dont agree with the war. But in a unit they will look after each other, so I know that they would never stay home (Or in Germany) while there unit went to war.

I dont know all the facts though, so this guy may have a perfectly reasonable explanation. And he signed up to the army to protect those back at home so dont be too harsh.

Just from experience I know cases of Desertion and AWOL are handled differently from individual to individual, depending on their overall reasoning and of course on the chain of command.

however there are times when "examples" are to be made. seeing as this has become quite public, he may end up being made and example of.

For those of you calling him a coward.....

So quick to condemn this man of whom you know nothing about.

Im sure you also believe that speaking out against wrongs in a government is "unpatriotic".

War is barbaric. killing each other until one side "gives" is rediculous. Being against killing is not being against the men and women in the military.

I hope he has a long and healthy life in Germany.

What some of you call a coward, I call a Patriot.

Do any of you have any idea how many Americans happily enlisted following 9/11? Americans were more than happy to defend their country and give their lives for it. That being said, it is a soldiers DUTY to refuse an unlawful order.

This is an unlawful war based on lies. Each time a soldier goes out into the field, they are obeying an unlawful order. You call him a coward, I call him a true Patriot. It takes true bravery to do what you think is right, regardless of the outcome.

The guy isn't some yahoo that was shanghied into the military. He enlisted, knowing full well what the job entails.

He's a coward. He ran to Germany and used the "illegal war" BS that every anti-war half-wit is screaming. I wonder what the guys in his platoon think of him? I seriously doubt they're sitting around saying, "Boy, what a patriot! How brave he was to do that!!"

I love when someone is calling a deserting soldier as a coward, who is rightfully ended the war which is based on lies.

You guys, whose are calling him as a coward, why don't you go to the first line if you really like this war? How you dare to label someone as a coward, who did his part and realized that for he is fighting, that in he believed is good, is just an illusion and it's surrounded by lies which leaded to the death of thousands? He is brave, because he did his part and now he is much more brave, because he did what is right. He was able to stand up and say, enough. Great courage is necessary to do what is right, instead of knowing the truth, but staying silent.

Guys, whose are labeling him coward, please enlist to the next tour of duty to Iraq or Afghanistan, then please write us how do you feel yourself on the front. I love when some morons are able to play the armchair-general and condemn everyone, but I tell you, you would be the first who would cry in the midst of a battle and would want to run back to under mommy's skirt. So, next time, please shut up.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Sheridan]

Originally posted by Sheridan

Guys, whose are labeling him coward, please enlist to the next tour of duty to Iraq or Afghanistan, then please write us how do you feel yourself on the front. I love when some morons are able to play the armchair-general and condemn everyone, but I tell you, you would be the first who would cry in the midst of a battle and would want to run back to under mommy's skirt. So, next time, please shut up.

And I was just waiting for someone to make a post like this.

You do realize that there are a fair amount of vets that post on ATS. Guys that have BTDT?

Kinda like me. I've lost count the number of times I've been in the AOR. And actually just counting the days until I get sent back.

So, tho you are right that there are a few "armchair generals" that make some hollow statements here, some guys can back up their words with actions.

Enjoy your spring. I'll be logging a buttload of combat flying hours.

Have a fine AFSOC day.

When you raise your right hand and take that oath that is it! You are commiting yourself to do your duty no matter what it is. You can always apply to try to get out of the service if you have a problem. When you desert your brothers and sisters in arms you put them at risk. You can't just think of yourself. What happens to you and your actions affect your fellow soliders. This was all explained to me before I took my oath some 28yrs ago and I never forgot it! Enough said.

To the person that said we are wrong to call this man cowardly.

You are wrong. It does not take any bravery to run away. It takes bravery to stand up and call out, "This is wrong" and take whatever consequences may happen because og your stand.

War IS barbaric. But so is flying fully loaded airplanes into office buildings; blowing up busses full of innocent people; blowing up restaurants full of innocent people, etc. The then government of Afghanistan not only condoned such attacks, they encouraged them.

They also blew up cultural artifacts in their own country, because they didn't approve of statues made over 1000 years ago.

Those are the barbarians.

Too bad that people like you would much rather give in to terrorists that fight against them. People like you existed all over Europe in the 1940's. They helped the Germans round up Jews and other undesireables, because it would have been "barbaric" to resist.

And if you are German, keep in mind that well over 75% of the German people supported Hitler, so long as he was winning. They only turned against him when it became obvious that they were losing the war.

Of course you can always claim that war never settles anything, which is the mantra of the pacifists. I would suggest that you have a debate with the Carthiginians, Adolf Hitler, the Greeks and the ancient Jews. Let them debate just how wars settled things for them, on a rather permanent basis.

Sadchild01, have you ever known any American Soldiers?

They always "adopt" local children, see that they are fed, that their familie shave food and clothing, and they even arrange for them to get medical care at the soldiers expense.

I was a soldier for almost 10 years. I never knew a single soldier that was an automaton, or one that enjoyed killing anyone. My job wasas a medic, and I provided care for local villagers on a regular basis. This was EXPECTED, not just something that one person did.

You are either very young, or very brainwashed.

This is to the OP.

He IS NOT facing the concequences of standing up against the WAR...if he WAS...he wouldn't be on the run in a foreign land. He instead would stand up to his Company Commander or Battalion Commander and say I am done, lock me up and I'll serve my time and get my discharge. If he TRULY wanted to stand up he WOULDN'T flee.

As for him being a coward, can't say that..he atleast had the sack to sign up and do something to give back to his country. I was enlisted for a few years, been around and seen a few things. It is NOT for everyone, and not everyone can deal with it. Now, he is a helicopter machanic, so I doubt he has been in or near any real fighting. Which leads me to believe he is just sick of being deployed and wants out...and thats why he would be better off just maning up and stop running. Just take your punishment and go on with your civilian life.

[edit on 12/11/2008 by rcwj75]

Lets say he joined in January of 04. He goes through 2 months of Basic and if he didn't have to spend a month in reception, like I did. He graduates in Febuarly or mid to early March. I believe Apache mechanic AIT is about 18 months. Barring him able to go right into school without waiting for a new rotation to start that would have him graduating around September 05. Now lets say he went to his unit and about a month after he gets there he is sent to Iraq. At the time I believe tours were 18 months long. That would have him coming back in May of 07. He gets back and goes AWOL because he thinks the war is illegal.

Now, by the time he gets back there had been changes to how long deployments last and how long units stay home between deployments. By the time he gets back he is garunteed 12 months stabilization. That would bring him to May of 08 before his unit is deployable again.

A European tour for a single soldier is 2 years so he would be coming up on orders to leave Germany around the September 07 time frame. Well before his unit is deployable again. So he was in no danger to be deployed at the time of his desertion. Lets say he does get orders and finds out that his new unit is being deployed, seeing as how he just got back the 12 months stabilization still counts and he would not be going with his new unit. So with the 12 months stabilization and the new 15 month deployment he would enjoy a nice 27 months of not having to worry about being deployed.

On top of that, 90% of soldiers enlist for 4 years at a time, so his contract was about to expire 7 months after he went AWOL. That is if there wasn't a stop loss on his MOS, which I don't remember seeing that paticular MOS being on the list when I checked for my own.

So unless he enlisted for 6 years and not 4 he was never in any danger to being deployed again. I'm thinking there is another reason and he is using this excuse so he can get asylum and not have to face UCMJ.