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"Recruit a group of crackpots" MJ-12

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posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 01:24 AM
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Some of you may recognize the line "Recruit a group of crackpots" from Roswell staring Martin Sheen.

This was a fictionalized version of Roswell but it appears as if it may involve more truth than most people suspect although that is speculation as is much of the information about UFOs.

They go on to discuss how they could leak information through unreliable sources. "Leaks won't neccissarily be bad as long as we control the way they are leaked." Once the information comes from an unreliable source they can ridicule the source and by association all the information ascociated with the source. If this was put into action it could explain far fetched authors that make a large amount of obvious mistakes but adress some things that the orthodox scholors ignore. As some have also speculated about it could also explain the contactee movement of the fifties and sixties.

The alledged members of MJ-12 include Donald Menzel dominent sceptic of his time who used ridicule and distraction techniques to debunk UFOs and Admiral Hillenkoetter board member of NICAP. This could be the beginning of a patern of behavior. They could have gone on to continue putting people in high places on both sides of the issue or where ever they are needed to control the way UFOs are discussed.

Most if not all of the high profile experts about UFOs seem to make at least a few obvious and simple mistakes that never should make it into books or shows that have been proof read. Many of them make a lot of foolish mistakes.

Intentional or not this leads to a lot of confusion. One of the biggest problems is lack of organization. One of the most obvious cases is the Condon Report (to read a free online copy click here) which is very badly organized as many including Allen Hynek have pointed out. Among people that have taken the time to read it many including myself have come to the conclusion that it shows evidence for a major unsolved mystery. If there are no UFOs as Condon claims why are there so many pilots chasing stars, planets, weather baloons etc.

One thing that I can be sure of there is a lot of contradictory information about UFOs and much of it is so obvious that it virtualy gaurentees that there is an effort to confuse the issue by many people. Either people reporting UFOs or those "debunking" them or I suspect more likely both.

Whether MJ-12 (or some thing doing the same job with a different name) exists or not If you want to figure out what is going on with UFOs right now you have to look at a lot of information from a lot of different sources and you can't trust much if any of it completely without verification.

Whether the government is hiding something about UFOs or not it is not being open about many subjects especially under GW Bush. the government needs to be held accountable which is why I also started a string to discuss Election Reform. to comment on that click here.

Whether you want to know more about UFOs or any other thing involving the government it would be much easier to find out if we had an open honest government.




posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 02:54 AM
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Sorry, no such thing as an open and honest government. Never has been, never will be, and us dummies just have to go along with it.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 03:01 AM
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Agreed, spellbound.

I have to shake my head every election time, when people think that things will change.

The military make sure that the real juicy UFO stuff is only on a need to know basis.

The average person doesn't need to know.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 03:30 AM
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you know i might actually make a paranormal and unexplained party and run for president! I bet i would get everyone on ats to vote for me next election


I will make a thread about it now



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by Poet Of Deception
you know i might actually make a paranormal and unexplained party and run for president! I bet i would get everyone on ats to vote for me next election

Nah, that won't work. There's a few of us who don't like to be governed.

I don't want to submit my freewill to anyone. No one is my master. It's too bad that many people don't think the same and feel that casting a vote is free will... very sad.

Government = slavery.

Still, that's a little off topic to the government hiding UFO/MJ truths.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by zacherystaylor
 


only that the so called MJ-12 ocuments have been shown to be fraudulent, calling into question the idea of the so called MJ-12 in the first place/



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by zacherystaylor
 


only that the so called MJ-12 ocuments have been shown to be fraudulent, calling into question the idea of the so called MJ-12 in the first place/

Cite your sources for this claim, please?

Your own authority is hardly valid.

Thanks.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by NavalFC
reply to post by zacherystaylor
 


only that the so called MJ-12 ocuments have been shown to be fraudulent, calling into question the idea of the so called MJ-12 in the first place/


The idea of a control group handleing the way the government and the media portrays UFOs isn't dependent on the MJ-12 documents.

There is an enormous amount of information indicating the government isn't being honest about the subject. Even if the MJ-12 documents are not accurate there could and almost certainly is a control group of some sort handleing the way they portray this infomation. I indicated that in my opening post.

I also indicated that if you want to figure out what is going on you need to keep an open mind and look at a lot of information and think it through.

However if you want to decide what is true first and then look for the appropiate information to support that decision that is your perogative.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by spellbound
Sorry, no such thing as an open and honest government. Never has been, never will be, and us dummies just have to go along with it.



Originally posted by tezzajw
Agreed, spellbound.

I have to shake my head every election time, when people think that things will change.

The military make sure that the real juicy UFO stuff is only on a need to know basis.

The average person doesn't need to know.


If you give up without trying your prediction will come true.

Unless someone else does the work for you then they will get preferential treatment as usual.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 01:38 AM
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"Recruit Crackpots" would explain some things like William Cooper.

Are you saying higher ups get some real retards and give them a bunch of info so they can mix it all up putting it out there?



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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Its not the first time that it has been believed that government has used hired hands to twist the truth so tightly that its like ringing out a wet rag slowly so you only get drip drip of any truth, then with one huge twist you get a bunch of "venus" and "swamp gas" and "high flying birds" soaking from the rag.

I think there is reference to the slow information release of such matters in the Brookings Report given to congress in 61 by Kennedy. Article HERE. Add some ridicule and outlandish information with a bit of truth and you can control the rate of how fast or how slow the information is let out to the public.




Cheers!!!!



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
"Recruit Crackpots" would explain some things like William Cooper.

Are you saying higher ups get some real retards and give them a bunch of info so they can mix it all up putting it out there?


this is the first I heard of Cooper but a quick look at wikipedia inicates he might fit the theory.

I'm speculating about the possibility that iformation is intentionaly distorted in several ways including releasing accurate information through nonreputable people and inaccurate information through reputable people. this would explain why some of the biggest fools get some obvious things right that are being ignored by "experts". And why "experts" with degrees make obvious mistakes.


Originally posted by RFBurns
Its not the first time that it has been believed that government has used hired hands to twist the truth so tightly that its like ringing out a wet rag slowly so you only get drip drip of any truth, then with one huge twist you get a bunch of "venus" and "swamp gas" and "high flying birds" soaking from the rag.

I think there is reference to the slow information release of such matters in the Brookings Report given to congress in 61 by Kennedy. Article HERE. Add some ridicule and outlandish information with a bit of truth and you can control the rate of how fast or how slow the information is let out to the public.


I didn't think it was a new idea although it isn't mentioned as often as it pbobably should be.

Michael Shermer and James Randi seem reputable and rational but they often ignore obvious facts like colossal stones that almost certainly couldn't be moved by ancient people.

Von Daniken and Sitchen adress this issue but then they make a lot of other foolish mistakes. and much more.

One of the few people that adress the issue rationaly for the most part is Jaques Vallee but he isn't as high profile as many other people in the UFO community.

He wrote about an invisible college which could materialize quickly. It would be nice to see this happen.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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The government would not need to recruit a group of crackpots or even leak information through them. The crackpots are all too willing to do the work on their own. And there are those who are all too willing to believe the crackpots, take the most outlandish of speculation as if it were the Gospel-truth. Just look at some of the posts and threads here on ATS: "Tibetan Monks Performing Remote Viewing Claim Exraterrestrials Will Intervene To Save Our Planet," "Reptilians = Disinformation!," Staged Alien Attack," and so forth. We don't need government influence or manipulation, we're doing a fine enough job on our own of discrediting this field.



posted on Dec, 17 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Just look at some of the posts and threads here on ATS: "Tibetan Monks Performing Remote Viewing Claim Exraterrestrials Will Intervene To Save Our Planet," "Reptilians = Disinformation!," Staged Alien Attack," and so forth. We don't need government influence or manipulation, we're doing a fine enough job on our own of discrediting this field.


Excellent point SaviorComplex, look no further than Paul Bennewitz. Mr. Bennewitz was played like a fiddle.



posted on Dec, 18 2008 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
The government would not need to recruit a group of crackpots or even leak information through them. The crackpots are all too willing to do the work on their own. And there are those who are all too willing to believe the crackpots, take the most outlandish of speculation as if it were the Gospel-truth. Just look at some of the posts and threads here on ATS: "Tibetan Monks Performing Remote Viewing Claim Exraterrestrials Will Intervene To Save Our Planet," "Reptilians = Disinformation!," Staged Alien Attack," and so forth. We don't need government influence or manipulation, we're doing a fine enough job on our own of discrediting this field.


The large number of crackpots are real and they did it on their own I don't doubt that but the attention given to them by the government and media including publishers that publish crap wasn't done by the crackpots. Besides if they wanted to use the crackpots they would want to control them if possible to use for the purpose of the government.

Besides one of the points I was making is that some of the information coming from the crackpots might actualy be true. However until we can have honest and open scrutiny we'll never know for sure.

It's all just speculation.



posted on Dec, 20 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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One of the arguments as to why they don't reveal the truth is that it will affect religious institutions. At first I didn't see how this would be true but after thinking it over I'm sure they are right.

Religion is based on the worship of a God that deserves worship or so they think. A God that inspires wars and tyrants doesn't deserve to be worshiped. Besides as a growing number of people are speculating about aliens might be what most people refer to as God. This is just speculation but if there is any truth to it then discloser may expose it.

If that is the case people need to be prepared for it. Perhaps the "new atheist movement" could help prepare people for it as long as they don't go to far. Some sceptics are ridiculing the subject. If they go to the other extreme then it will just mean trading one cult belief for another.

for more on this see 107 Wonders of the Ancient world and Alien Motives



posted on Dec, 20 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by zacherystaylor
 


In some of Kevin Randle's books, he has been told by some high ranking officials that the group assigned to investigate the crashes are called the "unholy 13". It would be interesting to know who made of the first group, although it does not have to remain a certain number of people. My guess would be most of the top four star generals and some scientists.



posted on Dec, 22 2008 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by zacherystaylor
 


In some of Kevin Randle's books, he has been told by some high ranking officials that the group assigned to investigate the crashes are called the "unholy 13". It would be interesting to know who made of the first group, although it does not have to remain a certain number of people. My guess would be most of the top four star generals and some scientists.


I haven't read Kevin Randles books but I think the Roswell movie was based on one of them.

Your right that there is no need that I know of for a fixed name or number but untill I have something better to go on MJ-12 will do. Even if the documents are fake as some claim there is a possibility bizarre as it sounds that it was leaked by the real control group to control disclosure according to their purposes. Untill we have real honest and confirmable disclosure it is all speculation which is one of the reasons why I think we need election reform.

Unfortunatly that isn't getting as much attentiopn as it deserves. Untill people smarten up they will easily control disclosure.



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 02:23 AM
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If this group exist as I suspect they do they are essentualy conducting a controlled disclosure conspiracy.

One of the tactics MJ-12 might use to confuse the issue (assuming that is what they want to do) is to put disinformation in books that they have influence over. This could be refered to as kind of a poison pill. In many cases it is a very obvious mistake or something that can easily be disproven. this wouldn't neccissarily be limited to UFO information.

An example of a poison pill would be if they put something like a claim by someone who built a seismograph in his garrage that can detect earthquakes worldwide or an astronaut who claims to have seen a tractor trailor from space with the nakid eye. Or in a case unrelated to UFOs an author might claim that there was a problem with the air conditioning because the CIA couldn't tell the air conditioning guy how many people would be in the building. If there are logical flaws to these examples as I believe there are then they would raise doubts about the authors who wrote them. This could raise doubts about whole books that included these flaws. For this reason it is important to sort through information about UFOs carefuly without taking them as a package deal. These books also have many more credible parts of the story but if the authors have credibility problems the credible portions need to be confirmed. In some cases there is plenty of confirmation which indicates it is probably true. In other cases there may not be sufficient confirmation in which case it may be better to look at it as a hypothetical.

The internet could be used by many people to share information about UFOs and they know it. If they want to control the way information is leaked on line that is incredibly easy. All they have to do is start a troll patrol. This troll patrol would search for message boards and chat rooms and try to bait people and pick fights with them. In many cases it is very easy to do this. If sincere people start argueing with the trolls the trolls win. Once it turns into a argument full of name calling it looks like a bunch of fools and there is little or no chance of exchanging rational ideas. The cercumstancial evidence of this can be seen at just about any message board that discusses UFOs. Once the conversation becomes productive the trolls come in and you know what happens. They would try to find ways to avoiding being to obvious though.

This is a good reason why people should ignore trolls instead of argueing with them. If people don't allow themselves to be drawn in and the trolls keep baiting them it will be to obvious and they will usualy stop.



posted on Jan, 7 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by TheDarkHorse
Excellent point SaviorComplex, look no further than Paul Bennewitz. Mr. Bennewitz was played like a fiddle.


Doesn't Paul Bennewitz prove exactly the contrary of what SaviorComplex is proposing?

Paul Bennewitz was the target of a Government disinformation campaign by Richard C. Doty and others at the AFOSI.



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