Instant communicators - a possibility?

My memory is fuzzy on this but I vaguely remember an article or talk about particles becoming linked. Separation of the particles over a distance didn't seem to matter.

I believe that when one particle flips or changes to a certain state then the linked particle behaves accordingly. I'm not sure if this is a discovery in quantum mechanics since my memory is fuzzy on this.

If this is true I was wondering if we could create and observe these particles and actually use them as communicators over vast distances. Does anyone know what I'm remembering here or have any ideas? I believe instantaneous communicators would free up lots of radio equipment.

it is a theory with regard to the fact that gravity travels faster than light, i have heard this to.
i do not know if it is true, but i think the scientific community are looking into the fact that we may not know everything about gravity.

Originally posted by andy1033
it is a theory with regard to the fact that gravity travels faster than light, i have heard this to.
i do not know if it is true, but i think the scientific community are looking into the fact that we may not know everything about gravity.

Take a look at this.

First speed of gravity measurement revealed

20:30 07 January 03
NewScientist.com news service

The speed of gravity has been measured for the first time. The landmark experiment shows that it travels at the speed of light, meaning that Einstein's general theory of relativity has passed another test with flying colours.

Light-speed gravity means that if the Sun suddenly disappeared from the centre of the Solar System, the Earth would remain in orbit for about 8.3 minutes - the time it takes light to travel from the Sun to the Earth. Then, suddenly feeling no gravity, Earth would shoot off into space in a straight line.

[Edited on 4-4-2004 by kinglizard]

The speed of gravity has been measured for the first time. The landmark experiment shows that it travels at the speed of light, meaning that Einstein's general theory of relativity has passed another test with flying colours.

yep, i said earlier that i did not know it to be true but i said that was what the theory was based on



[Edited on 4-4-2004 by andy1033]

I found something related to what I mentioned. The article didn't state anything about gravity though. Hopefully this link works. I'm still new at this.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I also found a term for this called "quantum entanglement". This would be amazing if it worked over vast distances.


[Edited on 4-4-2004 by orionthehunter]

I think the theory you should search for is �quantum tunneling�. I started a very similar thread entitled �Signals Exceed the Speed of Light� you may find some valuable information if you read it. And yes I think it�s possible.

I have thought about this before and believe it is possible. A basic code like morse code may be needed because I think a very limited amount of info can be transmitted.

Quantum entanglement is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which the quantum states of two or more objects have to be described with reference to each other, even though the individual objects may be spatially separated. This leads to correlations between observable physical properties of the systems that are stronger than any classical correlations. As a result, measurements performed on one system may be interpreted as "influencing" other systems entangled with it. However, no information can be transmitted through entanglement.

Read This Anyway


Although no information can be transmitted through entanglement alone, it is possible to transmit information using a set of entangled states used in conjunction with a classical information channel. This process is known as quantum teleportation. Despite its name, quantum teleportation can not be used to transmit information faster than light, because a classical information channel is involved.

[Edited on 4-4-2004 by quiksilver]

Thanks for all the links above , very interesting articles.

Although we seem to have a universal speed limit, with the advent of M-Theory and Brane Theory, I suppose it could be "a very, very long shot" that a wave could move over a cosmic membrane at a relatively much faster speed, thus cutting communication times down to nearly nothing. However, bending the fabric of the cosmos is not recommended, especially not to tell your buddy, "Waaazzzzzzzzzzzzzzuuuuuuppp." If, however, you can do it without any negative reprocusions, let me know.

Quantum entanglement may have a speed limit of a different type because atomic units (atoms), but we can't yet measure it (that I'm aware of).

Thinking off the cuff, I might also suggest by some type of particle/antiparticle creation (the virtual particle splitting) that you find a way for the antiparticle to be summoned in a more distant location. If this is done in patterns, you might be able to create a logical signal, thus communicating. I can't say that I know this works for sure.

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Protector]

Well, correct me if im wrong but research the basis for Hawking Radiation.

Im sure its something about the particles or 'energy'(most probably) inside a black hole isn't totally lost forever. The histories(past and future) of the energy are lost in REAL time but continue on in IMAGINARY time. Now im not too familiar with these topics(do some research or someone on this board may be able to explain clearly). The Uncertainty principle will allow this enery or particles to escape from the black hole, because they would be able to travel faster than light speed for a short duration(not exactly sure why), and escape from the black hole. Although the likelyhood of the energy being able to travel at that speed for the distance to escape a LARGE blackhole, it should be present in the smaller ones, ie the primordial black holes that formed at the start of the universe and are smaller than say a proton, but they should have mostly 'evaporated' by now.

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by quiksilver]

Hey, about that speed of gravity thing:

I'm positive that the experiment cited prior about using Jupiter to measure the speed of gravity was flawed. I am 100% sure that SciAm did an article that demonstrated that the experiment was designed in such a way that the desired result was predetermined. I can dig up the article if you want, but that would require more time than i've got now (esp. with the time change).

On a second note, the concept of a "speed limit" for communication strikes me as odd. Example as follows:

Imagine you and i are standing in a field 100 yards apart. I shout to you, the sound takes time to reach you. The time it takes is obviously related to the speed of sound through air. Now lets say i instead broadcast to you on my radio. The transmission travels at the speed of light in air. Pretty dang fast, neh? But now lets say we are floating in space, whoa nelly it just got a lil bit faster since the speed of light in a vacuum is a smidge quicker than in air. And if instead of my radio, i shout at you, whoa dang, you didnt hear #.

We see that light travels fasted in less dense mediums, and sound travels faster in more dense mediums. So, if we are communicating over something that is almost densityless (a near vacuum), lets use light. And if instead, I got a rod of neutronium, we better use sound.

It can be demonstrated that in a perfect arrangement of particles (edge to edge), say, in a situation at or damn near 0, me tapping on one side of the filament will be felt instantly on the other. Pretty damn nifty neh?

This could even work, say.. with a 2x4. Lets pretend we got one thats 8 light years long and we are out in space: me on one end, you on the other. I want to let you know to look behind you and we have arranged it such that, if the 2x4 hits you in the gut, you gotta turn around. Now me with my radio, i shout "look out!" and 8 years later you turn around but are already dead. Lets say instead i give that 2x4 a nice solid push (so much for inertia, but so what), youre gonna feel that 2x4 hit you in the gut right away and whiizzz, the micro-meteorite just misses.

So whats all this speed limit #? Causality perpetrates instantly... so much for C.

Edit:

www.sciamdigital.com... -EBDD-731B-51FFD31BEFDEE68E&ARTICLEID_CHAR=CA93B61B-0748-F3F6-B81A415A578B2108&sc=I100322

Login for full text.. or go to a library

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Cascadego]

Well, virtual particles are "perhaps" a way for scientists to state that there is a potential for atoms (matter and antimatter or particle and antiparticle) to sponaneously be created from the quantum "void."

Is this for real? Yes. Hawking radiation relates to this by assuming these virtual particles divide, thus creating two opposite components. When this division occurs, it is possible that one half of the complete virtual particle (let's say the positive half) is trapped by the intense gravity field of black hole/black star. That half will fall inside of a black hole. The other half will float around freely on the outside.

"Virtual particle pairs are constantly being created near the horizon of the black hole, as they are everywhere. Normally, they are created as a particle-antiparticle pair and they quickly annihilate each other. But near the horizon of a black hole, it's possible for one to fall in before the annihilation can happen, in which case the other one escapes as Hawking radiation."

math.ucr.edu...

As I understand it, this is how it all works (in theory).

Here's a lecture with information on virtual particles, by Stephen Hawking:

www.hawking.org.uk...

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Protector]

Now me with my radio, i shout "look out!" and 8 years later you turn around but are already dead. Lets say instead i give that 2x4 a nice solid push (so much for inertia, but so what), youre gonna feel that 2x4 hit you in the gut right away and whiizzz, the micro-meteorite just misses.

The whole board would not move instantaneously. Technically, the board shrinks slightly and the whole object moves sub-lightspeed. Your signal would get to them before the shockwave of you pushing the board (assuming you could push a 2x4x8LY board). Materials have a variable elastic quality. You just don't see it much unless you're playing with elastic or spandex.

As far as relating cause and effect, 'cause' takes time and so do the 'effects' of a cause. Thus, both cause and effect also have the variable of time. They are chain reactions, not spontaneous occurances.

I dont know about that... you can demonstrate unequivocally that in a material with no gaps, the shockwave travels at light speed and not instantly? Got a link?

Basically we know that an increase in the density of a medium decreases the speed of light... as density proceeds to infinity a point where "sound" travels faster than "light" should certainly occur, neg?

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Cascadego]

Originally posted by Cascadego
I dont know about that... you can demonstrate unequivocally that in a material with no gaps, the shockwave travels at light speed and not instantly? Got a link?

Basically we know that an increase in the density of a medium decreases the speed of light... as density proceeds to infinity a point where "sound" travels faster than "light" should certainly occur, neg?

[Edited on 7-4-2004 by Cascadego]

Look at it this way... all materials are made up of atomic structures. ALL materials. Each atom can move at the maximum speed and send information at the maximum speed (light), at most. So, if you push on a board, all of the atoms you came in contact with will push into the atoms next to them, and those into the ones on the otherside and so forth for 8 light years.

100% density does not exist. In fact, one might argue that 1% density doesn't even exist. We actually see the shadow paths of electron motion, but atoms are almost completely empty. Thus, you are always pushing on empty space and mass at the same time.

As a side note, motion can be thought of as a form of communication, where a signal to move must be processed before the object (or atom) moves. Thus, a shockwave will disrupt the atom and the atom will move in reaction to that shockwave. Here, the shockwave is the force (energy) which acts as a "propellant," if you will, that sends the atom in a given direction using the excess energy absorbed by the atom.

Visualization: Look at a squad of soldiers from the top-down. If you order them all to move forward one step, their motion is ALMOST completely uniform. However, each one reacts slightly different based on body structure AND their brain's interpretation of the command (how fast or slow they understood the command and what that command means as far as body mechanics). Atoms are the same way. If you push a board, each atom must react to the energy you provided by pushing it forward.