Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion.

reply to post by dAlen


And I'll say it again, in my personal experience, it is VERY EASY to get pregnant, even if you use birth control very religiously.

And, I'll even say this again, birth control is NOT 100%.

So, fine, go ahead and dismiss my personal experience in life, it doesn't make what I said any less valid.

Originally posted by Sonya610
LOL...what an arrogant, yet also ignorant, statement!

Yes, I realize it sounds arrogant.
My post is to get people to think - I cannot spell it out for anyone.

People have to live and find out for themselves, do their own research.
(I know it sounds like double speak - you have to educate...you have to find out for yourself. Well both are true.)

It is up to the individual. I can only speak from experience.
12+ years, and Im not wrong on my part so far.

AGain, this isnt to be arrogant, but for those who are willing, or want, to search and see the possibilities. Life doesnt happen, we make it happen.
(To a degree anyway...there is that 'double speak again'.)

Its hard to put things in words...

Again, the main issue is that most younger people just dont care.
Lets face it...the heat of the moment controls most of them, and not the other way around. (And thats even for older adults.)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 12-12-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by chickenshoes
reply to post by dAlen

 

And I'll say it again, in my personal experience, it is VERY EASY to get pregnant, even if you use birth control very religiously.

And, I'll even say this again, birth control is NOT 100%.

So, fine, go ahead and dismiss my personal experience in life, it doesn't make what I said any less valid.

As I said, I understand where your coming from.
But, remember, we dont quite know everything...no matter how obvious something seems.

Peace

dAlen

reply to post by chickenshoes


Ill throw something else out in the wind as well, as I find it interesting.

Is it not interesting that you hear about people trying to get pregnant and cant...
...and people who wish they were like that,(i.e., not able to get pregnant), who can get pregnant no matter what?

These types of topics are interesting indeed and give a bigger insight into this issue as a whole it would seem.

Peace

dAlen


[edit on 12-12-2008 by dAlen]

From my own families experiences, an abortion is what the biological mother should have done .... my adoptive brother is a mistake from the beginning.
He's never worked a day in his life, he has a serious drug abuse problem, as his biological father had.

The genetics overrides the social environment in his case and an abortion would have been the best solution. (he was born in 1965)

[edit on 11/03/2008 by Skydancer]

Originally posted by Skydancer
From my own families experiences, an abortion is what the biological mother should have done .... my adoptive brother is a mistake from the beginning.
He's never worked a day in his life, he has a serious drug abuse problem, as his biological father had.

The genetics overrides the social environment in his case and an abortion would have been the best solution. (he was born in 1965)

[edit on 11/03/2008 by Skydancer]

Loose quote from Gandalf: "Frodo, we do not yet know the role he has to play. For better or for worse I feel he still has a part to play."

Interesting question. Who is to decide when anothers life is not valuable?
True, if that life goes and intrudes on another, it might find that its time here is quite short. (Someone like Frodo will see to that. )

But seriously, these issues, topics, really are intriguing are they not.
They go far beyond what we typically think about or feel we know about the given subject.

I feel we as humans dont delve often past the surface of any given topic.
But that is as it is...everything has its time and place.

Peace

dAlen

Well, thank you for pointing out the wisdom of Gandolf the great from within the Ring. I'll being waiting to see what happens next in our family of Theives.

[edit on 11/03/2008 by Skydancer]

I am a child of adoption. I neither advocate abortion or adoption. I firmly believe children are a blessing. I feel there is so much hate and animosity in so many families combined with backward feelings about premarital sex. Why can't mother's and their families treat a pregnancy and the coming child as a blessing and with love?

Well, in 1973, a young girl in Ocala, Florida became pregnant. Being 16 years old, scared, confused, and morning sick; she decided to runaway. For two months she stayed with a friend, but eventually came home. She told no one she was pregnant. She disguised her growing belly as long as she could and eventually blamed her size on simple weight gain. At 7 months pregnant, she finally told her family and boyfriend.

Boyfriend's family, being wealthy Southern Blueblood, were not happy. They immediately found a adopting family. However, young girl's family would have nothing of that. They fought to keep the child in the family. Young girl was very smart, though. She named the baby after the father, making the baby number four of a long lineage. This however did not save the destroyed relationship of the two young lovers. They would never be together again.

Young mother was not certainly not ready for motherhood. Grandmother and Aunt took care of the child. The child loved grandmother more than anything. He called her mom, but that was just because everyone else in he house called her that. He knew who his mom was. Eventually everyone thought Young Boy should be adopted by Aunt. Happy ending, hardly. A traffic accident that left the adoptive father paralyzed, a "sister" that came later and was to later get priority treatment. Young Boy moved into a chaotic life that still effects him today.

However, the boy grew up knowing who he was and where he came from

That obviously is me, and despite the hard life I have had, I am grateful to have not been put up for adoption. I eventually reconnected with my father's family, all of whom are terribly glad to know me. My "sister/cousin is my best friend and closest family ally. I love my two moms, my dads, and I was blessed to have probably one of the most special grandmothers ever. God rest her soul. Everything works out in the end.

Don't abort, Don't give your baby away. Love.

Originally posted by Sonya610
LOL...what an arrogant, yet also ignorant, statement!

I know I replied to this one quote of yours already, but I thought you...and others...may find this interesting as well.

One rabbi I know has said that you can determine what sex your baby will be.
(And you thought what I said was arrogant. )

Yet, he tells how one goes about doing this, and to be honest with you when you ponder what he says from a 'scientific' view point...it actually makes sense.

Point is, I think as a society we are being removed from some valid concepts found in traditions, which become wives tales that 'seemingly dont work'.

They dont work for the same reason a cart without a horse wont work...you have to have the full piece of the puzzle, or it is a hit or a miss.

Now back to the matter at hand.
For this thread, my comment is simple - people need to learn the basics and go from there. And part of the basics is to learn about oneself, etc. - people know so much, it would seem, yet still know so little. "Know thyself" - and there is quite a bit to that one comment.

A lot of the unwanted pregnancies are preventable is the point I just tried to make...(to clarify that if the point was lost.)
Lets start with the basics and move on from there?

Peace

dAlen

p.s. -
This is not about being arrogant and looking down - my communication seems not to be able to hit that broad of an audience. Its my style, and it is as it is - but in no way am I looking down on anyone, or supposing Im above them as it seems it was implied by your post.

reply to post by dAlen


Well, if I am understanding you correctly, you seem to be pointing to the more mystical or sacred aspects of the origins of life and the true nature of consciousness.

So what you seem to be saying is that you believe all pregnancies happen for a reason, and that they should not be interfered with because you think it is the will of some higher power that they come into being. Is that correct?

Originally posted by Skydancer
Well, thank you for pointing out the wisdom of Gandolf the great from within the Ring. I'll being waiting to see what happens next in our family of Theives.

[edit on 11/03/2008 by Skydancer]

I too have stories of family - as Im sure we all do.
(Seriously). Your not as isolated as you may think with whats happening in your family.

The issue is that what is...is.
It cannot be anything other than what it is now, so the question is...where do you go from here. Even more so, how are you letting it affect your life - and does it need to?

Things are tricky because we tend to take the load of everyone else upon our shoulders...even worrying for the better of humanity. (Totally ignoring our own well being, thinking it selfish, and wrong.)

But if we dont start with ourselves, the only place true change can happen...then change can start no where. And this goes for all of us and for everything. (politics, etc.)
What Im saying is not new and will NOT enlighten or change anyone...it will resonate with those who already think along these lines.

Then why write, one may ask? Just for the fun of it...why do we do anything in life? Is anything of it necessary? What do we take with us at the end of it all? No this is not all doom and gloom, and forgive me for my ramble - but as I mentioned, these topics are good to think about outside the box.

If anything, I would hope to encourage you...but even a persons 'sorrow' has its time and place.

As for your comment, nice to see the humor you put in there.
It is indeed good to laugh. Wasnt there an article recently saying laughing and happiness is contagious? (Or was that just a skit from the Colbert Report. )

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
I have a relative that stole everything from another relative - everything they had basically...and did it not once, but twice. (How can they do that if they did that the first time...well its pretty messed up as you can tell.)

What role does this relative of mine have? What do I know.
The universe is the dancer and we are the dance - God is trying to experience itself through form, as it were...who knows what 'God' is trying to learn.

Yes, this talk seems 'out there', but we must realize words are LIMITED, and we automatically put blockages on what we think they mean by how we interpret it through our mental grid system built up by our milieu.

So an 'unorthodox' style to writing, may just work to get the point across for some...that otherwise may not have gotten the point, as they would have been lost in their pre-conceived understanding of things. (Which is quite a natural thing to do initially.) - Learning to think past what we think the words are saying seems to be key.

Originally posted by chickenshoes

Well, if I am understanding you correctly, you seem to be pointing to the more mystical or sacred aspects of the origins of life and the true nature of consciousness.

So what you seem to be saying is that you believe all pregnancies happen for a reason, and that they should not be interfered with because you think it is the will of some higher power that they come into being. Is that correct?

Well, the first part is correct - but it may get more baffling, because at the same time...I dont feel the freedom to talk into another person choice. (As long as its not crossing my choice.) After all, I dont understand the choice you, or someone else makes - what I mean is that not all things are equal. How am I to judge what is right or wrong in another individuals life? How do I know what they need at that moment...perhaps something they need to learn.

Yes I am approaching it more from the mystical aspect, and I do apologize my words are so mumbled. Some days I am better at expressing myself than others. (at least to me. )

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
I will add - religion does tend to confine things to black and white, and ignores that there is a transition of grey connecting the seemingly opposites.

In this regard, I do not agree with absolutes, per say.
There are so many levels that it is insane to judge and believe we understand what is going on with someone else. (The insanity is defining a person by their actions. This only locks them down with more fear and gives them an identity, of sorts, to adhere to. Helps the ego, but not the person.)

If anything, I am bypassing the "is it right to abort or not" issue by trying to go to the root.

I have a saying that pops up here and there, (perhaps I picked it up from somewhere), "Its time to educate not legislate."

Instead of making a new rule for or against something...go to the heart of the issue, which I admit is hard when we werent even taught by our parents what that issue was and inherited their mess.

But eventually things evolve and move on.
Part of this is opening up in communication and dialouge, and a lot of this (regarding this particular issue) is pushed down by todays media.

We have social taboos, yet they play upon those as to hypnotize and mesmerize us.
The piper playing a tune and all follow. It takes a more relaxed look at life, in general to start to see the bigger thing and how it ties into every choice we make...big or small.

Not really sure this cleared things up, everytime I say something there seems to be more to add. But in the end, as I have said elsewhere - somewhere inside we already know this stuff...when we go, "oh yeah" its because we finally connected the dots. (The dots were already there, so to speak.)

[edit on 12-12-2008 by dAlen]

reply to post by dAlen


Hm, ok, I think I understand.

So you feel that,yes, life has a mystical side, and that should be respected, however you are not advocating telling people what choices to make?

Ok, I can see that, even agree with it.

reply to post by dAlen


So. What is your foolproof method of preventing pregnancy?

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by dAlen

 

So. What is your foolproof method of preventing pregnancy?

Originally posted by dAlen
My wife and I said before we married we would have a set number of kids...in a certain time...and we had the number we said and when we wanted.

I am just guessing here (I am sure the poster will reply himself in 1000 words or more..lol). But since he said married with a set number of offspring in mind, I am guessing that implies once the number offspring were reached they snipped and shut down one of the operating systems. But see he refers to his "method" in terms of a marriage, what about those people that want a sex life, but due to marital status or for other reasons they want to wait years before they have offspring? That is a whole other issue.

Many people for whatever reason don't want to undergoe surgical sterilization so that is not a realistic method for those folks. I think it should be more widely used, I think a lot of people are just big babies about it, or they think it is "socially undesirable" to future partners (even if they don't want kids, and will refuse to have more willingly, they can "pretend" and make future partners believe they may be willing to have kids with that partner).

On that note while I said before the whole abortion thing wasn't traumatic, and it certainly was not a life changing moment or on the list of "most painful" life experiences, I have to say in hindsight it was sufficiently stressful to make me realize at that moment "I never want to go through this again". I took immediate action to ensure it would not happen again, which I guess implies it was pretty unpleasant at the time.


[edit on 13-12-2008 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by toochaos4u

As for abortion, if it is before the brain has formed I'm fine with that.

[edit on 11/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

Where did you get this idea? Ha ha ha No guy you are wrong and if you have ever seen an abortion, you would know better

Originally posted by AermacchiWhere did you get this idea? Ha ha ha No guy you are wrong and if you have ever seen an abortion, you would know better

Really? Please explain. Are you saying you have seen abortions and you found them horrifying? There is no doubt a late term abortion is an ugly business.

However the vast majority of abortions are NOT late term. Do you know why most doctors do not want to perform abortions before 6 weeks? Because the embryo is so small they can't be sure if the procedure works. It is a tiny glump of cells that could be missed.

So please if you are implying that "abortion is traumatic to witness" please explain how many you have seen and how a tiny glump of tissue being removed is traumatizing for the staff or patient?

Originally posted by Sonya610

Originally posted by Aermacchi
The fact is once their is a life depending on that woman to survive, how anyone can talk so cavalier about ending that infants life in contrast to what the mother may be depressed about later?? Ha ha

Infant? Wait...I am confused. Is this thread about abortion or infantacide? Killing the offspring after birth would be killing an "infant".

The vast majority of abortions destroy embryos (The term, embryo, is used to describe the early stages of fetal growth, from conception to the eighth week of pregnancy).

I always saw pro abortionists as infanticide sanctioned by the state or Government Approved baby killers. Using semantics like you are doesn't change this fact one iota and is just an attempt to make it more sterile like the way we did when we were systematically murdering all the American Indians, we called them "savages" because we didn't human beings. We also did it with the African Americans we kidnapped and brought here calling them many names but rarely did we call them Madam or Sir. We do it with people we once called "Freedom Fighters or the taliban, now we call them terrorists. You seem to think an embryo is a fetus which is nothing more than a word to make the distinction at what stage of development a HUMAN BEING (in this case) is at. It doesn't suggest that it is a shapeless mass of undulating flesh without having any significance at all. This is no different than a word making the distinction for someone later in life such as the word "senior citizen"

Here is more for you to wrap you mind around

baby


Dictionary: baby (bā'bē)

n., pl. -bies.

A very young child; an infant.
An unborn child; a fetus.
The youngest member of a family or group.
A very young animal.
An adult or young person who behaves in an infantile way.
Slang. A girl or young woman.
Informal. Sweetheart; dear. Used as a term of endearment.
Slang. An object of personal concern or interest: Keeping the boat in good repair is your baby.
adj., -i·er, -i·est.
Of or having to do with a baby.
Infantile or childish.
Small in comparison with others of the same kind: baby vegetables.
tr.v., -bied, -by·ing, -bies.
To pamper like a baby; coddle. See synonyms at
www.answers.com...

We see that Infant and baby are used synonymously

Thesaurus: baby

A very young child: babe, bambino, infant, neonate, newborn, nursling. Idioms: bundle of joy. See kin, youth/age/maturity.
A person who behaves in a childish, weak, or spoiled way: milksop, milquetoast, mollycoddle, weakling. Idioms: mama'sboygirl. See youth/age/maturity.
verb

To treat with indulgence and often overtender care: cater, coddle, cosset, indulge, mollycoddle, overindulge, pamper, spoil. See treat well/treat badly/treat
www.answers.com...

[edit on 13-12-2008 by Aermacchi]

Originally posted by Aermacchi...like the way we did when we were systematically murdering all the American Indians, we called them "savages" because we didn't human beings. We also did it with the African Americans we kidnapped and brought here calling them many names but rarely did we call them Madam or Sir.

"We" did all that? Oh my god, you were there? Not only have you witnessed many abortions but you also witnessed "us" killing indeginous Americans and African slaves?

You should write a book. With all the horrible things you have been involved with I am surprised you have managed to survive this long.

Good thing I have not eaten breakfast, if I had I might throw up right now.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Really? Please explain. Are you saying you have seen abortions and you found them horrifying? There is no doubt a late term abortion is an ugly business.

Am I saying what? Well let me put it this way,, THE IDEA ALONE IS Horrible and is nothing short of infanticide oh and spare me the semantics referring to it as any other term, I don't buy the hype nor the cookie cutter programmed response to diminish it as anything less than the execution of innocent babies.

However the vast majority of abortions are NOT late term. Do you know why most doctors do not want to perform abortions before 6 weeks? Because the embryo is so small they can't be sure if the procedure works. It is a tiny glump of cells that could be missed.

Yes and this why the procedure they currently use works so effectively

Early medical abortion Up to 9 weeks, during an early medical abortion, drugs are used to cause an early miscarriage. One works by blocking the action of the hormone that makes the lining of the uterus hold onto the fertilised egg. The other, given later, causes the lining of the uterus to degrade and the embryo is lost in the bleeding that follows, as happens with a miscarriage.

So please if you are implying that "abortion is traumatic to witness" please explain how many you have seen and how a tiny glump of tissue being removed is traumatizing for the staff or patient?

What I'd like to know Sonya, is where did you get the idea to use such a silly straw man so close to the original response, clearly showing, I had never mentioned an thing about seeing them and saying how horrible they are. I was responding to the posters making a blanket statement saying that all abortions are done before the baby has a brain and that is simply not true.




[edit on 13-12-2008 by Aermacchi]