Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion.

Originally posted by Sonya610

To the anon person that said "abortion always leaves permanent scars". That is absolutely NOT true. Maybe for some people, but it is surely not a life changing horrid experience that haunts every woman for a lifetime. The anti-abortionists just like to pretend that it is.


[edit on 11-12-2008 by Sonya610]

It's hard to quantify because I have known women with the whole spectrum of emotions.

Those like you who do not have lasting effects and those who are absolutely devestated.

I do wonder why there is such a spread.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by asmeone2]

reply to post by asmeone2

I do wonder why there is such a spread.

I'm guessing that it's because there are so many factors that would act on the mind after such an event. Psychological, physical, biochemical. The differences from woman to woman are vast.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by asmeone2

 

I do wonder why there is such a spread.

I'm guessing that it's because there are so many factors that would act on the mind after such an event. Psychological, physical, biochemical. The differences from woman to woman are vast.

Probably. I think current society's norms lead woman to misinterpret the pain they feel afterwards. Someone who has had an abortion may have her pain exacerbated because she beleives she is a murder or that she will be ostricized if others find out, someone who has had an adoption may have difficulty because she feels that she should not feel the pain that she does.

reply to post by asmeone2


They mite also feel bad because they don't feel anything. When I am around death, people the family, people whom I loved, I feel no emotion towards it all. For along time I thought I was 'broken' somehow, never grieving or anything. Turns out I just dissociated death and sadness so one doesn't evoke the other.

Originally posted by asmeone2It's hard to quantify because I have known women with the whole spectrum of emotions.

Those like you who do not have lasting effects and those who are absolutely devestated.

I do wonder why there is such a spread.

Well I suppose some of it could be hormones, but those will pass. I think it depends on ones views of life/death/religion, and whether the woman really likes or wants children. Plus the stage of the pregnancy and the length of time they debate the procedure probably also plays into it.

Personally I am not disassociated from death in other ways, i have grieved intensely over the loss of close companion animals. Grief can have a lot to do with pure symbolism, or the quality of the relationship. Somethings hit hard, some just don't.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Sonya610]

Absolutely amazing thread. Even more amazing is the audacity of quite a few spiritually depraved, morally bankrupt people that posted in int. Only thing I want to say at this point is there is a pay day SOMEDAY. We ALL die and what then? Whether you believe it or not there is going to be a judgment and the same God that allowed YOU to live is going to also judge you *harshly* for your abortion leaning position. Trust me, abortion is way up there on the list with God so go ahead and be idiots.. You are going to have your day. You can take that to the bank, make no mistake.

Originally posted by Lokey13
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Have you aborted a baby? Just since your the only woman here at the moment I must ask; only because you refered to it as "Traumatic" which would insinuate that you've aborted a child before. Otherwise how could you call this traumatic unless you've actually been there and no I don't mean being by a friends side.

ive had 3 abortions.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by asmeone2

 

Pro-life? Me? No, I'm anti-senseless destruction. I look at it logically and think that abortion is unwarranted when first of all; unplanned pregnancy should be avoidable period. When that fails, a life is created that shouldn't need to be destroyed considering every life has the potential of greatness. With an abortion system in place, there seems no just reason that a child should be aborted.

I'm very conflicted on this subject. I know abortion is wrong on every level, but to take away the choice (however wrong it may be) seems wrong, too.

I think abortion should not happen because parents should understand it's wrong, not because it is law.

I guess that makes me pro-choice. And yes, I am a kiwi.

Om my god,, I am very impressed with this post GW I have never been in a thread where I can say I have agreed with you,, well there was two other times but they weren't over such a delicate and controversial issue. I saw your avatar and the first thing I thought was "here it comes, flush the baby down the toilet like it was a gold fish" sort of line.

Yes unwanted pregnancy is a very easy to avoid problem without having to to what I believe is not an option regardless of the depression and after results with the mother, this is why I think it is so important both men and woman, girls and boys learn about the consequences . The fact is once their is a life depending on that woman to survive, how anyone can talk so cavalier about ending that infants life in contrast to what the mother may be depressed about later?? Ha ha I think of the two and it doesn't take but a nano second to know the only right thing to do is to bear the brunt of the bed I made and lay in it but making the decision to end my own sone or daughters life out as a form of preventative anti depression, seems a little selfish to me and makes one mistake costing someone depression to costing someones life. To assume it is not going to be a happy life anyway is also,, well their are no words to describe how narrow that thinking is and how presumptuous

Again GW you have gained my respect on this one and,, in general

I totally agree with all of you, because obviously this issue is all about the mother and only about the mother. There is no need to take into consideration the fact that there is another human life affected here. An innocent life. Adoption is so awful....everyone knows that being adopted is much worse than being dead. Ripped limb by limb right from your loving mother's womb. When the scales fall from your eyes, there will be gnashing of teeth when you are able to recognize abortion for what it is and the man comes around. I will pray for all of you.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS

Am I pro-life? Well speaking as an adopted child, I'm sure as heck glad I'm alive! Hell, if my birth mother had decided to end my life.. I would have fought those neck snapping scissors to the death! ...but of course I wouldn't have been able to because babies are helpless.

You know, it's wonderful that you were born, and I'm glad that you are so glad to be here, but the neck snapping scissors comment is just ridiculous. It's not as if a woman wakes up one day at 8 or 9 months pregnant and says "You know, I just don't think I want to be pregnant any more." I mean, they might, but at that point, you just hope you go into labor sooner rather than later. You don't just truck yourself down to the clinic to have an abortion. And, even if you did, I doubt the average clinic that provides abortions would do it. There are laws in most states that regulate at what gestational age a fetus is legal to be aborted, and if you can seek a partial birth abortion, it is due to serious health concerns, not just some stupid whim. That idea is simply ridiculous!

People have such a terrible misconception of what abortion is like. 99% of all abortions take place before 20 weeks, first of all. Something like 53% are before 8 weeks. Now, before someone jumps all over me and tells me that a baby has a beating heart at 18 days or something like that, I'd like to remind you that bugs, chickens, cows, etc. have not only a beating heart, but also a brain and a fully developed nervous system, very much unlike a zygote, embryo or fetus, yet most here don't hesitate to squash them underfoot or eat them, do you? And, their deaths are usually more violent and traumatic than any abortion could ever be.

So, all you rabid pro lifers out there , well you damn well better be rabid vegetarians as well.

I also agree that rape is a terrible thing... but why should the baby have to suffer to? Why add to the crime by killing the kid to? Again plenty of great couples out there want kids but aren't able to have them! (like my own parents) Imagine turning something horrible (like rape) around to something very VERY special (the gift of a child).

Again, you are assuming. No one has proven definitively that the baby does suffer. As I have stated before, the neurotransmitter needed to feel pain is not produced by fetuses before 20 weeks of gestation. Therefore, it would stand to reason that abortion is not painful for fetuses aborted before this stage. I say, why punish the woman (again, as if the rape in itself isn't bad enough) and everyone who knows and loves her by forcing her to bear a symbol of hatred and violence? It just doesn't make sense to me. Hasn't the rape victim been through enough already? But, typical attitude of closed minded individuals, to devalue the life of the woman in favor of something that can't even be defined as a person under the US constitution. Shoot, even God in the old testament required the Isrealites to only pay monetary damages to anyone caused to miscarry by another person. If an unborn baby is so valuable to God, why didn't he require an eye for an eye as per usual?

Originally posted by Aermacchi
The fact is once their is a life depending on that woman to survive, how anyone can talk so cavalier about ending that infants life in contrast to what the mother may be depressed about later?? Ha ha

Infant? Wait...I am confused. Is this thread about abortion or infantacide? Killing the offspring after birth would be killing an "infant".

The vast majority of abortions destroy embryos (The term, embryo, is used to describe the early stages of fetal growth, from conception to the eighth week of pregnancy).

I can honestly say adoption was the best thing to ever happen to me, I was adopted at birth,am 36 years old and have no desire to meet or even know who my biological parents are. My life has never been easy but life never is.I for one am sooo! tired of people who think their birth parents are the answers to all their problems there was a reason I was given up and whatever that reason was I am glad my birth mother decided not to abort. Please get over it people. Everything in life happens for a reason call it God, fate, whatever. i am not trying to be heartless but if you spend your entire life looking back, you're going to miss whats happening now and now is all that matters, now is what you can do something about (as painful as it may be put the past behind you because there is nothing you can do to change it.)

Yes, even beyond the point where the majority survive if born live. In Canada, the first trimester is the target for abortions, theres far too much brain development to even consider it past that stage. The actual target date is 6 weeks being ideal.

reply to post by chickenshoes


"Again, you are assuming. No one has proven definitively that the baby does suffer."

Yes I completely agree with you that it is uncertain at which point the baby would feel pain. However, what I meant by the suffering was the long term effect of losings the life of the child (again, the bias being that I'm an adopted child and see myself as having lived a good thing).
Since I was from a closed adoption it is quite entirely possible that I'm a result of rape.. however neither I nor my adopted parents know this, and I am certainly not a symbol of dislike and hatred to them! (My mother is beside herself If I don't call her once a day). I apologize if my arguments seem 'raving' at times, I just feel more strongly about this issue than any other, consequently, I appear overly passionate.

PS: There was a comment earlier about adopted parents of closed adoptions not getting the medical background of the children they adopt. In my case (a fully closed adoption) I have my own medical records pertaining to my birth as well as those of my genetic parents.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by chickenshoes
these fertilized eggs were all at one time potential baby chickens, which have been essentially aborted by you, the consumer.

Wouldn't that be 'killed'. We killed the unborn chicken. The chicken itself didnt' rip the egg out of her womb in an effort to destroy her unborn chick.

Actually, abortion is the correct term for a pregnancy which come to an end at an early stage of development, and does not result in a live birth. It does not necessarily refer to someone voluntarily choosing to end a pregnancy. It can also refer to miscarriage.

As far as I can see, humans are the only animals to pull our own children out of our wombs and kill them.

While animals may not actually pull their offspring out of their womb, there are many many documented accounts among all species of animals of the mothers killing their own young shortly after birth.

As a vet tech, I myself have seen this very thing on numerous occasions. Occasionally, inexperienced mother cats will kill their entire litters shortly after giving birth, sometimes they will kill only one or two kittens.

At any rate - eating chicken eggs is not the same as humans committing abortion. The egg isn't a thoughtout abortion by the chicken. It's just laying an egg as is natural.

Here again, abortion doesn't have to be "premeditated", it can simply refer to the premature ending of a pregnancy.

However, I would say that breaking open a fertilized egg and cooking it is always premeditated by the person intending on eating it.

Unfortunately, there is no choice to be made... Abortion isn't right any way you look at it. A woman should not be given the choice to take life away just because she might have emotional scarring or she just doesn't want to. There is no reason that could justify abortion.

Originally posted by asmeone2

Personally I am sick and tired of adoption being touted as a panacea solution for unwanted pregnancies.

It is extremely easy NOT to get pregnant.
Even if one has sex it is extremely easy to NOT get pregnant.

I feel that perhaps there is a lack of education, (and a lack of control & discretion), as people seem to think that getting pregnant is a hit or miss thing.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 12-12-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
It is extremely easy NOT to get pregnant.
Even if one has sex it is extremely easy to NOT get pregnant.

LOL...what an arrogant, yet also ignorant, statement!

Functional reproductive systems are a dangerous thing, people that are sexually active are quite likely to have a slip up over the years. Given enough time it probably WILL happen if both are fertile and active.

Not spilling coffee on your keyboard is also "very easy". People successfully drink gallons of coffee without one drop hitting the keyboard, but do it long enough and one day SPLASH!

reply to post by dAlen

Why do some people never seem to get this?

Birth control can fail, it has happened to me twice in my life, even though we have always used it very carefully.

It seems I get pregnant if my husband sneezes on me, or even just looks at me from across the room.

So, really, even if you are using birth control, it is not 100%.

Originally posted by chickenshoes
reply to post by dAlen

 

Why do some people never seem to get this?

Birth control can fail, it has happened to me twice in my life, even though we have always used it very carefully.

It seems I get pregnant if my husband sneezes on me, or even just looks at me from across the room.

So, really, even if you are using birth control, it is not 100%.

Ill say it again...its easy to NOT get pregnant.
My wife and I said before we married we would have a set number of kids...in a certain time...and we had the number we said and when we wanted.

No gimmics... but it really is easy to NOT get pregnant.
Sorry, Im not a sex therapist so I wont go further...people have to live and find out things on their own.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
I do understand where you are coming from.
But concerning this thread, we have to admit and realize that a majority of the younger people getting pregnant are not educated...or perhaps just plain out not careful about it...not thinking about the future, but the heat of the moment. (im sure they wont admit it later.




[edit on 12-12-2008 by dAlen]