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Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion.

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posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


I thought it wasn't an option for me.
My parents didn't even KNOW I had the abortion, till it came out that a deputy sherriff had naked pictures of me, from when he FORCED me to take them or lose my job, which I needed for the 300+ dollars to HAVE THE abortion!
He was a piece of work. I was younger than his children, who I hung out with watching Jane's addiction videos.
I got MOST of the pictures back, when my step-dad called the Sherriff's dept. and told them. He called me later, I met him at a church and he gave most of them(Not ALL) back!



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by gormly
 


I think you missed the point completely.

I did not set my OP up as an "Is it right or wrong?" question at all, I structured it as "This part of the abortion & adoption issue does not get as much airt time as it should." What I posted were personal anecdotes, not facts, so of course they are 'biased.

I take offence at your labeling me a far-left wing. If you have followed my posts through the rest of the board they will show me to in fact be against abortion, but attempting to lessen the numbers through social change, rather than sweeping laws.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


I can see where your coming from because you've actually been there unlike Flyer'sFan, The people around my apartment are not illegal but instead are legal immigrants on welfar with 32 kids. The other point I'm getting at is we pay for every single child in foster care through state taxes, I think if people who were against abortion suddenly got a letter saying that they'd have to pay more in taxes yearly to keep children in foster care and also the welfare of children in homes because the parents for abortion weren't going to pay those taxes anymore, they'd all say whoa whoa whoa abortion is fine. Thats the problem, they want to have zero abortion let them pay the child's welfare and the child's welfare in foster care and then we'll see what happens.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by OldMedic


Your whole piece is nothing but propaganda for the abortion industry.


They sure aren't paying me very well. Geesh. I better step up the propaganda!



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by Lokey13
 


I got laid off from my factory job in February.
If there wasn't such a state with the automotive industry, I would still be there, probably.
There's a family near you on welfare with 32 kids????!
Why didn't they get a depro-provera shot or something like I did after I had my first child on medicaid???
That's S-T-U-P-I-D!

I donate to orphanages and used to volunteer with a crisis pregnancy center.
They receive donations and clothing for women who decide to KEEP their babies. The biggest donors are Christian churches.
They even help with job placement! As few as there are.
Abortion compounds the problems.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


I need to point out that medicaid does not always pay all the bills related to pregnancy. I came up with quite a stack even though it was suppsoed to be a 'medicaid-covered' pregnancy.

That, and medicaid folks will often shuffle the pregnant applicants around; if they can keep them waiting that lessens what they have to pay for.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 


See such a civil conversation and you've actually had an aborted child. So much hatred coming from that other whatsherface, but any who I'm happy to hear they would help with mother's willing to keep their children. If there was a good enough foundation, that could help all the mother's in america I don't think abortion would be necessary. Yes adoption does make many things difficult, and I have a huge proglem with paying for foster care. The person living next door doesn't have 32, but she does have 4 and shes planning on changing the address of one of the children to keep herself on welfare because shes supposed to be having another child. Yes, I do believe forced abortions are sometimes the way to go, I believe everyone would look at it differently if you saw the lives these kids have and the total disregard for their wellbeing by their parents. They only care about the check, nothing else.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Lokey13
I am not saying the adopted children I'm saying all the ones not adopted and on welfare.


Reminder - The subject of this thread is - 'ADOPTION is not a good alternative to abortion'.


yes and I know your degree is complete BS

Third reminder. Read the T&C rules. I am not the subject of this thread.


Originally posted by Lokey13
So much hatred coming from that other whatsherface,

Forth reminder. Read the T&C rules. I am not the subject of this thread.

Not wanting a woman to have to deal with rape AND murder is loving her - not hating her. Careful - Your bias is showing again.



THE TOPIC - Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion.

I have not yet seen how killing the child is better than adoption.

5 pages. No evidence to support that death is better for the child.

edited immediately to fix quote

[edit on 12/11/2008 by FlyersFan]



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


you guys are all correct, it is much better to deny a life than to let that child live and maybe do better with someone else than you could do for them. It sounds like the women referred to in the story and the postings all had mental problems before they became pregnant. This just shows that having and raising a child is for a mature person to do and not someone that is mentally still a child themselves. It is just difficult for me to understand how the killing of the child is better than letting the child live with someone else. Twenty-two years ago my girlfriend became pregnant. I wanted to get married right then, but she said no and had an abortion. To this day she regrets having that done, and now we are both in our 40s and childless. We split up 6 months after the abortion and it was because of it that we did. I told her before she had it done that I could never stay with someone that would do such an evil thing. At the time it hurt me tremendously but she seemed to not care. Now, it bothers her a great deal, just because she was sure she would have kids in the future after theabortion, but she was never able.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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Alright. This petty bickering ends now. Keep to the topic and the members are NOT the topic.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Wrong. The baby is not 'mush'. The baby has a beating heart very early on. The baby sucks his or her thumb. The baby sleeps and wakes up. The baby yawns. The baby plays with his or her fingers and toes. The baby FEELS PAIN. (doctors who perform surgery on babies in the womb give the children drugs to deaden the pain during surgery). The baby is a baby - not 'mush'.


No, the baby is not "mush", however, research indicates that fetuses are not able to feel pain until around 20 weeks, because before that time, they lack a certain neurotransmitter that would enable them to feel pain.

Now, here are the stats on average gestational age of abortions:


At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.

shine.yahoo.com...


So, as you can see, 99% of abortions are performed before the 20th week


And, the baby does all those things you described above, however, it does not begin sucking it's thumb until weeks 14-16, does not yawn until around 20 weeks, sleeping and dreaming around 6-7 months gestation, the heart does begin to beat at 21 days, and brain waves begin to be produced at around 8 weeks.


That's just sooooooooooo wrong. A chicken egg is just an egg. It has not been seeded and there is no baby chicken involved. Not even close. A chicken egg and a human egg still in the ovaries is the same - not an unborn human and a chicken egg.


You are correct on this, somewhat, but so is the other poster. Chickens not housed with a rooster will still lay unfertilized eggs, however, fertilized and unfertilized eggs can be purchased at most health food stores, and of course, those with their own chickens and a rooster will be most likely eating already fertilized eggs from the chickens. And, yes, these fertilized eggs were all at one time potential baby chickens, which have been essentially aborted by you, the consumer.


.
There is nothing natural about abortion. No animal in the entire animal kingdom on earth commits abortion. No other animals except humans rip their young from the mothers womb in order to painful kill the child before birth. Not only are humans the only ones to do this, but they do it for selfish reasons. NOTHING in nature is like this. It is not something that 'nature takes upon itself'.

Thats three strikes.

Any more 'wisdom'?


I am of the belief that sometimes abortion can be the kindest, most responsible thing you can do, and no, that I am aware of, animals do not choose to abort or not. But, speaking as a vet tech, humans have the responsibility to chose for domesticated animals. We do pregnant spays at our clinic all the time, per owner request, of course, and the cats are always perfectly fine, of course barring post surgical infection or bleeding, which is a risk with any surgery. Domesticated animals do not possess the ability or reasoning power that humans do, and they depend on us. Therefore, we, being responsible for them must make those decisions for them.

It is part of the beauty of being human to have the ability to chose what we will do in any case. No one has the right to deprive another adult of that right. It's hard, but it makes our lessons all the more valuable.

And, I do have personal experience with abortion, in my own case, and having gone with friends to the clinic.

All of us believe to this day that we made the correct decision. I, for one, am grateful every day that I have been given the ability to choose. Some people don't have that. And, if we are wrong, we will find out soon enough. I for one believe that the energy it took to make a baby, if aborted, will go back to God. And, my decisions are my own, I own them and take full responsibility for them. No one forced or coerced my decision, and I am and always have been fully at peace with it.

And, to stay at least somewhat on topic, I applaud the OP for having the courage to start this thread. This is, obviously a hotly debated subject, and many people have strong and unwavering opinions. But, they are all just that, opinions, and as you know, opinions are like butts, everybody has to have one, and they all stink!



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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Excellent post chickenshoes!


Originally posted by chickenshoes
these fertilized eggs were all at one time potential baby chickens, which have been essentially aborted by you, the consumer.


Wouldn't that be 'killed'. We killed the unborn chicken. The chicken itself didnt' rip the egg out of her womb in an effort to destroy her unborn chick.

As far as I can see, humans are the only animals to pull our own children out of our wombs and kill them.

I know chimps have been recorded committing murder of other chimps. And the animal psychologists, for whatever reason, said it was premeditated. But that's the only info I have on that sort of thing. Nothing on animals aborting their young on purpose.

At any rate - eating chicken eggs is not the same as humans committing abortion. The egg isn't a thoughtout abortion by the chicken. It's just laying an egg as is natural.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:44 PM
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Everyone please remember that I did NOT indicate this as a thread to debate the right or wrong of abortion(there are a billion other threads for that!), but the fallacy of presenting adoption as an easy and painless alternative. Thank you.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by asmeone2
 


Right you are, and I do agree with you, that adoption is not the "panacea" it is made out to be.

You have included some very compelling stories to back up your points, and I am glad to see someone bringing it up, because it does bear looking at.

So often I have seen adoption touted as the cure all. For one thing, it is no woman's responsibility to provide a child for someone who can't have one. For another, obviously adoption has serious emotional consequences which cannot be ignored.

As I have said before, in any situation, when the person feels forced, pushed , coerced, or duped into doing anything against what they really want, or if they have not thoroughly searched what is truly in their heart, and they go against the grain of what is true for them, is where the problems lie. No one can tell you what is right or wrong in this situation. It is up to each individual.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 12:58 PM
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I went through that dilemna in my early twenties. I have never wanted children, but when an accidental pregnancy occured one family member briefly pushed for adoption. Wasn't much of a debate though, at 5 weeks along the "known" pregnancy only lasted 1 day.

I could not even fathom the adoption thing. Creating a being with the same genes, same blood, quite literally a part of myself and then abandoning it to be raised by strangers? Nope. Unthinkable! Others may feel differently and good for them, but for me it wasn't even an option to consider.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 01:18 PM
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This thread is at four pages; others I've seen have gone much longer, and yet no one manages to address the real issue. Personal Freedom.

You should be able to have whatever opinion you want about abortion, adoption, how to raise children, etc, and apply those opinions to yourself and your own children, and any other family you may be responsible for.

You should NOT have the right to force those opinions on me or anyone else, because that's all they are is opinions. No one has all the answers and what is right (or wrong) for one person is not right for everyone.

Once America was a nation of proud, independent pioneers who minded their own business and let other people mind theirs. Now it seems to be a nation of nosy, interfering busybodies who want to mind everyone's business EXCEPT their own, and want to have control of everyone's lives. Isn't this the tyranny your forefathers left Europe to escape?

Give people information and education, share with them your experiences so they don't have to make ALL their own mistakes, and then let them make their own decisions, which YOU aren't responsible for. Wouldn't that be simpler and easier?



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by Jemison
I was adopted as was my older brother. I had issues of abandonment even though I loved my adoptive family (who I consider my 'real' family) more than life itself.

When I was in my early 20's I went to the adoption agency and got all of the non-identifying info on my biological parents. I thought that would help me but it just made me more curious.

A few years later I hired a PI to find my biological mother. When I worked up the nerve to call my bio Mom I got the shock of my life. Two years after putting me up for adoption she married my biological father and eventually they had two more children. They were still married and though they hadn't told their friends or children that they had given a child up for adoption, my biological mother constantly prayed that I would find her.

I now know my biological family and have a relationship with them. It's been an emotional roller coaster ride because I wasn't looking for another family when I did my search and yet another family is basically what I got and it's hard to keep one family happy let alone two families!

Adoption is a wonderful alternative to abortion but the secrecy around closed adoptions can cause anguish for everyone involved. Not all adoptive parents could handle open adoptions but there has to be some sort of happy medium.

Jemison


Thank you for sharing your story.
I feel not so alone now.



posted on Dec, 11 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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Iam going to post in here about those that feel teen moms are just welfare junkies.
STOP STEREOTYPING.
There are teen moms who get support from family, finish school, have part time jobs, and survive without welfare.
I'm one of them thank you.

There are just as many who abuse the social service system by being "Foster Parents" just to collect the cheque that goes with it and the kids are neglected and abused.
I refuse to jump on the issue that had consumed the rest of this thread.
Please just agree to disagree, and keep on topic.
For those who have never experienced abortion or adoption personally...and I may be very blunt here..
You have literally no clue of what you speak. You cannot imagine the emotions involved.
You can quote all the statistics you like, but numbers ARE NOT PEOPLE.




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