reply to post by asmeone2
I thought it wasn't an option for me.
My parents didn't even KNOW I had the abortion, till it came out that a deputy sherriff had naked pictures of me, from when he FORCED me to take them
or lose my job, which I needed for the 300+ dollars to HAVE THE abortion!
He was a piece of work. I was younger than his children, who I hung out with watching Jane's addiction videos.
I got MOST of the pictures back, when my step-dad called the Sherriff's dept. and told them. He called me later, I met him at a church and he gave
most of them(Not ALL) back!
Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion. , page 5
privacy
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:45 AM by asmeone2
reply to post by gormly
I think you missed the point completely.
I did not set my OP up as an "Is it right or wrong?" question at all, I structured it as "This part of the abortion & adoption issue does not get as much airt time as it should." What I posted were personal anecdotes, not facts, so of course they are 'biased.
I take offence at your labeling me a far-left wing. If you have followed my posts through the rest of the board they will show me to in fact be against abortion, but attempting to lessen the numbers through social change, rather than sweeping laws.
I think you missed the point completely.
I did not set my OP up as an "Is it right or wrong?" question at all, I structured it as "This part of the abortion & adoption issue does not get as much airt time as it should." What I posted were personal anecdotes, not facts, so of course they are 'biased.
I take offence at your labeling me a far-left wing. If you have followed my posts through the rest of the board they will show me to in fact be against abortion, but attempting to lessen the numbers through social change, rather than sweeping laws.
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:51 AM by Lokey13
reply to post by Clearskies
I can see where your coming from because you've actually been there unlike Flyer'sFan, The people around my apartment are not illegal but instead are legal immigrants on welfar with 32 kids. The other point I'm getting at is we pay for every single child in foster care through state taxes, I think if people who were against abortion suddenly got a letter saying that they'd have to pay more in taxes yearly to keep children in foster care and also the welfare of children in homes because the parents for abortion weren't going to pay those taxes anymore, they'd all say whoa whoa whoa abortion is fine. Thats the problem, they want to have zero abortion let them pay the child's welfare and the child's welfare in foster care and then we'll see what happens.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]
I can see where your coming from because you've actually been there unlike Flyer'sFan, The people around my apartment are not illegal but instead are legal immigrants on welfar with 32 kids. The other point I'm getting at is we pay for every single child in foster care through state taxes, I think if people who were against abortion suddenly got a letter saying that they'd have to pay more in taxes yearly to keep children in foster care and also the welfare of children in homes because the parents for abortion weren't going to pay those taxes anymore, they'd all say whoa whoa whoa abortion is fine. Thats the problem, they want to have zero abortion let them pay the child's welfare and the child's welfare in foster care and then we'll see what happens.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:00 PM by Clearskies
reply to post by Lokey13
I got laid off from my factory job in February.
If there wasn't such a state with the automotive industry, I would still be there, probably.
There's a family near you on welfare with 32 kids????!
Why didn't they get a depro-provera shot or something like I did after I had my first child on medicaid???
That's S-T-U-P-I-D!
I donate to orphanages and used to volunteer with a crisis pregnancy center.
They receive donations and clothing for women who decide to KEEP their babies. The biggest donors are Christian churches.
They even help with job placement! As few as there are.
Abortion compounds the problems.
I got laid off from my factory job in February.
If there wasn't such a state with the automotive industry, I would still be there, probably.
There's a family near you on welfare with 32 kids????!
Why didn't they get a depro-provera shot or something like I did after I had my first child on medicaid???
That's S-T-U-P-I-D!
I donate to orphanages and used to volunteer with a crisis pregnancy center.
They receive donations and clothing for women who decide to KEEP their babies. The biggest donors are Christian churches.
They even help with job placement! As few as there are.
Abortion compounds the problems.
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:07 PM by asmeone2
reply to post by Clearskies
I need to point out that medicaid does not always pay all the bills related to pregnancy. I came up with quite a stack even though it was suppsoed to be a 'medicaid-covered' pregnancy.
That, and medicaid folks will often shuffle the pregnant applicants around; if they can keep them waiting that lessens what they have to pay for.
I need to point out that medicaid does not always pay all the bills related to pregnancy. I came up with quite a stack even though it was suppsoed to be a 'medicaid-covered' pregnancy.
That, and medicaid folks will often shuffle the pregnant applicants around; if they can keep them waiting that lessens what they have to pay for.
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:07 PM by Lokey13
reply to post by Clearskies
See such a civil conversation and you've actually had an aborted child. So much hatred coming from that other whatsherface, but any who I'm happy to hear they would help with mother's willing to keep their children. If there was a good enough foundation, that could help all the mother's in america I don't think abortion would be necessary. Yes adoption does make many things difficult, and I have a huge proglem with paying for foster care. The person living next door doesn't have 32, but she does have 4 and shes planning on changing the address of one of the children to keep herself on welfare because shes supposed to be having another child. Yes, I do believe forced abortions are sometimes the way to go, I believe everyone would look at it differently if you saw the lives these kids have and the total disregard for their wellbeing by their parents. They only care about the check, nothing else.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]
See such a civil conversation and you've actually had an aborted child. So much hatred coming from that other whatsherface, but any who I'm happy to hear they would help with mother's willing to keep their children. If there was a good enough foundation, that could help all the mother's in america I don't think abortion would be necessary. Yes adoption does make many things difficult, and I have a huge proglem with paying for foster care. The person living next door doesn't have 32, but she does have 4 and shes planning on changing the address of one of the children to keep herself on welfare because shes supposed to be having another child. Yes, I do believe forced abortions are sometimes the way to go, I believe everyone would look at it differently if you saw the lives these kids have and the total disregard for their wellbeing by their parents. They only care about the check, nothing else.
[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:28 PM by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by asmeone2
you guys are all correct, it is much better to deny a life than to let that child live and maybe do better with someone else than you could do for them. It sounds like the women referred to in the story and the postings all had mental problems before they became pregnant. This just shows that having and raising a child is for a mature person to do and not someone that is mentally still a child themselves. It is just difficult for me to understand how the killing of the child is better than letting the child live with someone else. Twenty-two years ago my girlfriend became pregnant. I wanted to get married right then, but she said no and had an abortion. To this day she regrets having that done, and now we are both in our 40s and childless. We split up 6 months after the abortion and it was because of it that we did. I told her before she had it done that I could never stay with someone that would do such an evil thing. At the time it hurt me tremendously but she seemed to not care. Now, it bothers her a great deal, just because she was sure she would have kids in the future after theabortion, but she was never able.
you guys are all correct, it is much better to deny a life than to let that child live and maybe do better with someone else than you could do for them. It sounds like the women referred to in the story and the postings all had mental problems before they became pregnant. This just shows that having and raising a child is for a mature person to do and not someone that is mentally still a child themselves. It is just difficult for me to understand how the killing of the child is better than letting the child live with someone else. Twenty-two years ago my girlfriend became pregnant. I wanted to get married right then, but she said no and had an abortion. To this day she regrets having that done, and now we are both in our 40s and childless. We split up 6 months after the abortion and it was because of it that we did. I told her before she had it done that I could never stay with someone that would do such an evil thing. At the time it hurt me tremendously but she seemed to not care. Now, it bothers her a great deal, just because she was sure she would have kids in the future after theabortion, but she was never able.
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:35 PM by chickenshoes
Originally posted by FlyersFan
No, the baby is not "mush", however, research indicates that fetuses are not able to feel pain until around 20 weeks, because before that time, they lack a certain neurotransmitter that would enable them to feel pain.
Now, here are the stats on average gestational age of abortions:
shine.yahoo.com...
So, as you can see, 99% of abortions are performed before the 20th week
And, the baby does all those things you described above, however, it does not begin sucking it's thumb until weeks 14-16, does not yawn until around 20 weeks, sleeping and dreaming around 6-7 months gestation, the heart does begin to beat at 21 days, and brain waves begin to be produced at around 8 weeks.
You are correct on this, somewhat, but so is the other poster. Chickens not housed with a rooster will still lay unfertilized eggs, however, fertilized and unfertilized eggs can be purchased at most health food stores, and of course, those with their own chickens and a rooster will be most likely eating already fertilized eggs from the chickens. And, yes, these fertilized eggs were all at one time potential baby chickens, which have been essentially aborted by you, the consumer.
I am of the belief that sometimes abortion can be the kindest, most responsible thing you can do, and no, that I am aware of, animals do not choose to abort or not. But, speaking as a vet tech, humans have the responsibility to chose for domesticated animals. We do pregnant spays at our clinic all the time, per owner request, of course, and the cats are always perfectly fine, of course barring post surgical infection or bleeding, which is a risk with any surgery. Domesticated animals do not possess the ability or reasoning power that humans do, and they depend on us. Therefore, we, being responsible for them must make those decisions for them.
It is part of the beauty of being human to have the ability to chose what we will do in any case. No one has the right to deprive another adult of that right. It's hard, but it makes our lessons all the more valuable.
And, I do have personal experience with abortion, in my own case, and having gone with friends to the clinic.
All of us believe to this day that we made the correct decision. I, for one, am grateful every day that I have been given the ability to choose. Some people don't have that. And, if we are wrong, we will find out soon enough. I for one believe that the energy it took to make a baby, if aborted, will go back to God. And, my decisions are my own, I own them and take full responsibility for them. No one forced or coerced my decision, and I am and always have been fully at peace with it.
And, to stay at least somewhat on topic, I applaud the OP for having the courage to start this thread. This is, obviously a hotly debated subject, and many people have strong and unwavering opinions. But, they are all just that, opinions, and as you know, opinions are like butts, everybody has to have one, and they all stink!
Wrong. The baby is not 'mush'. The baby has a beating heart very early on. The baby sucks his or her thumb. The baby sleeps and wakes up. The baby yawns. The baby plays with his or her fingers and toes. The baby FEELS PAIN. (doctors who perform surgery on babies in the womb give the children drugs to deaden the pain during surgery). The baby is a baby - not 'mush'.
No, the baby is not "mush", however, research indicates that fetuses are not able to feel pain until around 20 weeks, because before that time, they lack a certain neurotransmitter that would enable them to feel pain.
Now, here are the stats on average gestational age of abortions:
At what gestational ages are abortions performed:
52% of all abortions occur before the 9th week of pregnancy, 25% happen between the 9th & 10th week, 12% happen between the 11th and 12th week, 6% happen between the 13th & 15th week, 4% happen between the 16th & 20th week, and 1% of all abortions (16,450/yr.) happen after the 20th week of pregnancy.
shine.yahoo.com...
So, as you can see, 99% of abortions are performed before the 20th week
And, the baby does all those things you described above, however, it does not begin sucking it's thumb until weeks 14-16, does not yawn until around 20 weeks, sleeping and dreaming around 6-7 months gestation, the heart does begin to beat at 21 days, and brain waves begin to be produced at around 8 weeks.
That's just sooooooooooo wrong. A chicken egg is just an egg. It has not been seeded and there is no baby chicken involved. Not even close. A chicken egg and a human egg still in the ovaries is the same - not an unborn human and a chicken egg.
You are correct on this, somewhat, but so is the other poster. Chickens not housed with a rooster will still lay unfertilized eggs, however, fertilized and unfertilized eggs can be purchased at most health food stores, and of course, those with their own chickens and a rooster will be most likely eating already fertilized eggs from the chickens. And, yes, these fertilized eggs were all at one time potential baby chickens, which have been essentially aborted by you, the consumer.
.
There is nothing natural about abortion. No animal in the entire animal kingdom on earth commits abortion. No other animals except humans rip their young from the mothers womb in order to painful kill the child before birth. Not only are humans the only ones to do this, but they do it for selfish reasons. NOTHING in nature is like this. It is not something that 'nature takes upon itself'.
Thats three strikes.
Any more 'wisdom'?
I am of the belief that sometimes abortion can be the kindest, most responsible thing you can do, and no, that I am aware of, animals do not choose to abort or not. But, speaking as a vet tech, humans have the responsibility to chose for domesticated animals. We do pregnant spays at our clinic all the time, per owner request, of course, and the cats are always perfectly fine, of course barring post surgical infection or bleeding, which is a risk with any surgery. Domesticated animals do not possess the ability or reasoning power that humans do, and they depend on us. Therefore, we, being responsible for them must make those decisions for them.
It is part of the beauty of being human to have the ability to chose what we will do in any case. No one has the right to deprive another adult of that right. It's hard, but it makes our lessons all the more valuable.
And, I do have personal experience with abortion, in my own case, and having gone with friends to the clinic.
All of us believe to this day that we made the correct decision. I, for one, am grateful every day that I have been given the ability to choose. Some people don't have that. And, if we are wrong, we will find out soon enough. I for one believe that the energy it took to make a baby, if aborted, will go back to God. And, my decisions are my own, I own them and take full responsibility for them. No one forced or coerced my decision, and I am and always have been fully at peace with it.
And, to stay at least somewhat on topic, I applaud the OP for having the courage to start this thread. This is, obviously a hotly debated subject, and many people have strong and unwavering opinions. But, they are all just that, opinions, and as you know, opinions are like butts, everybody has to have one, and they all stink!
reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:54 PM by chickenshoes
reply to post by asmeone2
Right you are, and I do agree with you, that adoption is not the "panacea" it is made out to be.
You have included some very compelling stories to back up your points, and I am glad to see someone bringing it up, because it does bear looking at.
So often I have seen adoption touted as the cure all. For one thing, it is no woman's responsibility to provide a child for someone who can't have one. For another, obviously adoption has serious emotional consequences which cannot be ignored.
As I have said before, in any situation, when the person feels forced, pushed , coerced, or duped into doing anything against what they really want, or if they have not thoroughly searched what is truly in their heart, and they go against the grain of what is true for them, is where the problems lie. No one can tell you what is right or wrong in this situation. It is up to each individual.
Right you are, and I do agree with you, that adoption is not the "panacea" it is made out to be.
You have included some very compelling stories to back up your points, and I am glad to see someone bringing it up, because it does bear looking at.
So often I have seen adoption touted as the cure all. For one thing, it is no woman's responsibility to provide a child for someone who can't have one. For another, obviously adoption has serious emotional consequences which cannot be ignored.
As I have said before, in any situation, when the person feels forced, pushed , coerced, or duped into doing anything against what they really want, or if they have not thoroughly searched what is truly in their heart, and they go against the grain of what is true for them, is where the problems lie. No one can tell you what is right or wrong in this situation. It is up to each individual.
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