Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion. , page 4

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reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:04 AM by Akuryotaisan16

I was adopted from South America when I was six months old, and I am very grateful to my birth mother for making that decision. If she had tried to raise me herself, I would probably be dead right now.

I love my parents with all my heart. They have provided me with the best of everything, and I consider myself extremely lucky to have found such wonderful people. They are my "real" parents even if they didn't conceive me themselves.

Adoption is like most things in life, it can be good or bad. Many other people I know that were adopted from the same country as I was weren't so lucky as I was. They were not able to form a strong attachment with their parents and thus have not led very contented lives in the family department.

Even though I am glad to be alive (most of the time anyway

), I still consider myself pro-choice. Everyone should have the legal right to abort, no matter what the reason. Some could then argue that my birth mother could've aborted me instead of giving me up for adoption. If that had happened, then so be it. In my humble opinion, everyone should have a choice.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:10 AM by toochaos4u

At 8 weeks some involuntary brain sections start to develop. It is still brain dead matter about the size of a grape. It begins taking a little bit of human shape but, that is because that is what it will become eventually. Around 20-23 weeks there is a complete functioning brain.

If you can remove this pebble nugget from a womb and it live on then I would consider it alive.

Of course I don't support any over the other. It is with whatever the mother thinks best. Personally I would say teach sex education and avoid most of it. Too many children are sitting in orphanages and foster homes already.

Since all wish to drag on heart strings. There was a girl at my High School that did have an abortion. Her father came home one night very drunk and beat and raped her several times. At the time she was only 14. You would have caught hell if you would have tried to convince her to keep that. She was so traumatized that when her physician recommended adoption she basically told him that she would cut the thing out with a knife by herself if she had to.

[edit on 11/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:30 AM by veranda

After watching two posters who had had abortions debate in another thread

An abortion debate? The slaughter and death toll must have been enormous. I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you, and I think you are a very strong person. A lot of people would have cracked under such hard circumstances. I completely respect your opinion on abortion and adoption (just as I do every WOMAN'S opinion on those matters)... although I don't agree with you, as I feel every individual has such different experiences concerning these matters a blanket rule just wouldn't work for all women. Still, I hope things work out for you and things with your birth mom work themselves out sometime in the future. Good luck and happy holidays!

p.s.- I said "woman" above because men should have absolutely no say in these matters whatsoever.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:33 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by toochaos4u
Too many children are sitting in orphanages and foster homes already.

There is a very long waiting list for those who wish to adopt.
When we decided to adopt the list was 8 years long.
We decided that we didnt' want to wait that long so we went overseas
(Bolivia) to adopt.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:35 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by FlyersFan

Well theres no getting through to you and you posted complete bs scientific evidence, the baby doesn't have a beating heart till week 5 thats 35 days do the math, and there is absolutely no brain function until 23-24 weeks which would be 161-168 days (If you'd like you could show me accreditted sources that state your way to be a truth). So I don't know where your grabbing this 18 days and 40 days from because thats complete BS per every science book I've ever read and read today (I suspect you may have looked up heart and brain developement which does take place earlier but they are not working organs till week 5 and 23). The baby is in fact not functioning until 24 weeks so I have absolutely no problem with the states abortion rating. You should quit trying to force your biased opinion on something that clearly isn't your decision. Let the woman do what she wants.

O and one more question, what do you tell that child, conceived by rape when he's old enough to ask about "daddy"? would you tell him daddy raped me and your were the blessing, I'm sure that'd go over well with the kid probably ruin his/her whole life. Absolutely no sympathy toward a raped woman I'm surprised your a woman at all.

Also one more question where are you from? That would probably settle everything.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:36 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by Good Wolf

I totally agree with you. This adoption issue goes both ways. I have a cousin that was adopted and I see and love him as my true cousin. My aunt and uncle also see him as his true son and they love him. The same goes for my friend's cousin that was adopted. The reality is that sometimes life is hard and unfair adopted or not.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 10:57 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Lokey13
So I don't know where your grabbing this

Read the links. The books and documents are listed.

You should quit trying to force your biased opinion on something that clearly isn't your decision.

Isn't that what you people are doing to the child?
Forcing your deadly bias upon them? Yep.

My providing information is not forcing bias. It's providing information.
Sorry if having information and truth that goes against YOUR BIAS bothers you so much. Try some tolerance.

Let the woman do what she wants.

Let the baby live her or his life.

what do you tell that child, conceived by rape when he's old enough to ask about "daddy"?

When the child is old enough, the child would be told that the birth father was indeed a rapist. That in no way effects how people feel about the child. And a child who has been raised in a secure invironment will not be destroyed by that knowledge. The sperm provider is very different from the father who raises him or her.

I'm sure that'd go over well with the kid probably ruin his/her whole life.

1 - It would not destroy the child.
2 - It would not make the child wish that he or she had been murdered in the womb.

You make the birth parents a bigger deal then they really are.
I can see you have had no experience with adopted children.
And you dont' have any psychology training either, right?

Absolutely no sympathy toward a raped woman

Actually you people are the ones with no sympathy toward a raped woman. Pushing a woman who has been raped to kill her child just adds to her mental anguish. That child is hers. You want to add to her mental burden.

I'm surprised your a woman at all.

whatever.

Also one more question where are you from? That would probably settle everything.

Where I'm from doesn't have anything to do with anything at all and it certainly doesn't 'settle anything'.

I was born and raised in Connecticut. I spent a few years in Texas. A few years in Alabama. 3 years living in Japan. And almost 10 years in the Philly area.

My personal information has NOTHING to do with the fact that killing a child is NOT better than that child being adopted.

NOTHING. And I'm not the subject of this thread. Check your T&C rules.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:08 AM by toochaos4u

reply to post by FlyersFan

Not here there isn't a waiting list. Also part of that waiting list you mentioned is for someone to produce a baby that is according to specifications of the adopters as well as much red tape. Heck these teenage mothers here with no sex education try to hide pregnancy with baggy clothes and throw full term babies in the garbage. One woman hid 7 full term babies under her sink.

I have nothing against adoptions. I would adopt myself (even older kids that literally fill orphanages and foster homes) if it were you know legal and all in South Carolina for me to try and not have to go to war with the Southern Baptist Church.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:08 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by FlyersFan

O yes your personal information does, I'm from new bedford, massachusetts and I see about 200 children born every year around my house by teenage mothers because young parents are exceptable with minority families around here. So if you can't do the math, and those are the new children I see; so how many mouths does that add into the welfare system of the country? I believe if you can't have a child a forced abortion should be in order, can't pay don't play; and whether you'd like to think this way or not we pay for all those children in foster care many that never get a family and are free at 18 but we have to pay for them till then. All those people we pay for, you know the ones. But if your not from a city like mine you would have no idea, especially because I live in the projects right in the middle of it. Also how are you to say what a child would think if they new their father raped their mother? Do you have personal experience with this? Because first off my personal feeling would be that I wasn't supposed to be born and that I only was because of 1 man's terrible act, the act which I was a product of; no offense to me Ms. phycology but that it major on the scales of emotional trauma. I'm just going to agree to Ignore yet another person, such a BIASED view is not worth my time. O and one more thing the baby isn't alive till 23 weeks so again these aren't babies being aborted, their nothing at all, you just stay with that opinion and since you love it so much how bout we send you the welfare bills, you can afford it for everyone right? By the way I absolutely am positive your not a phycologist, so why ask if I'm one? Get out of the house more often some LIBERAL thinking may help you out.

Also your "information" is from a against abortion website, try finding me something done by the American Medical Association. That page also notes exceptions that have happened, such as brain waves have been recorded at as early as 40 days thats not the norm.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:12 AM by Akuryotaisan16

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Lokey13

You make the birth parents a bigger deal then they really are.

Are you adopted yourself? Do you really know what its like to not know who your "birth" parents really were? Even though I love my parents, I have always wondered about the two people who conceived me, and what they're doing now.

Don't make generalizations like this when you can't speak for everyone.

[edit on 11/24/2007 by Akuryotaisan16]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:15 AM by Clearskies

reply to post by Lokey13

FORCED ABORTIONS???!
Are you from China?

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:16 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by Clearskies

No I'm not from China but if you can't afford a child, why should I be the one to pay for it? Forced abortion would only be for woman under 18, I'm also for eliminating the welfare system. So esentially if the welfare system was eliminated, let everyone have as many babies as they want, till then I don't need an extra water bill. I would just like everyone who is against abortion to sign a waiver saying they'll also pay all the welfare for this country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:18 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by Akuryotaisan16

Totally agreed, she just has a Biased view because she thinks she's empowered because she has an adopted child. I think she needs a parenting class because number one point about children, they'll never tell you everything.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:25 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Lokey13
O yes your personal information does,

No. Personal info asking is against T&C. Read the rules.

how many mouths does that add into the welfare system of the country?

Adopted children do not suck the welfare system.

Also how are you to say what a child would think if they new their father raped their mother?

Your entire rant about what you expect adopted children to feel is just that - your biased rant. Based on nothing. And you DEFINATELY are placing too much importance upon the birth parents of adopted children. Those very few children who were adopted, and who have a rapist in their biological heritage, aren't suddenly going to wish they had no life and were dead.

There is NOTHING to back that biased rant on.

That's absurd.

O and one more thing

Preach much?

the baby isn't alive till 23 weeks so again these aren't babies being aborted, their nothing at all,

You didn't read any of the information did you? Pity. If you had educated yourself you would see that preborn children are alive throughout the entire process.

By the way I absolutely am positive your not a phycologist,

I have my BS in psychology. Not an MS. A BS.
And again - my personal information is not the subject of this thread.

The OP stated that 'adoption is not a good alternative to abortion'.
The children are better off dead than alive.
That's BUNK.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:27 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by FlyersFan

You didn't answer any of my major questions, plus I am not saying the adopted children I'm saying all the ones not adopted and on welfare. Your rant was also just as Biased, more biased actually. Thank you for answering my critical questions which I new you wouldn't. O yes and I know your degree is complete BS.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:29 AM by Clearskies

reply to post by Lokey13

Welfare will be abused by some people no matter what, without reform.
In my state, Georgia, our governor, Sonny Perdue, has made it harder for illegals to get welfare, which is a step in the right direction.

But, what about NAFTA, and exportation of jobs? There needs to be a lot of work done.

When is it easy to afford a child???
I had my abortion at 3 months and I thought it was a blob of flesh(otherwise, I wouldn't have done it)
I saw a demon on the recovery table and I was talking to it when I came to, the nurses were freaked out a little, although I don't know what was said.
I went and threw up, then they gave me crackers and lemonaide.

I didn't think it would be a REAL baby until I felt it move in me, but the hell I had to go through made me realize it WAS MURDER. I WASN'T RELIGIOUS AT ALL.
I even went to a few rock concerts while I was pregnant, drinking and doing drugs.
When I went to the health department (can't remember why) the nurse asked me something and I said, "It doesn't matter, I'm going to have an abortion" and I felt nothing like guilt or shame at that point. Not till I had the procedure and EVERYTHING went down from there!

I agree people shouldn't be playing fast and loose with sex.
I thought 'pulling out' was a good method for non-pregnancy!
Oh well.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:35 AM by asmeone2

reply to post by miriam0566

That quote was from a page in which the author of an artcle (which I also linked) discusses some of the comments from an article he wrote about birth mother's satisfaction with the adoption process. THey were posted anonymously.

I think she is commenting upon the way that society deems women "murdereds" if they have an abortion, but as good woman if they give it up for adoption, with no cosideration tht they may still have emotions surroundign the child their entire life just as they may have from an abortion.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:37 AM by asmeone2

reply to post by Clearskies

Ultimately I would like to see society become more conducive to those who do have children while they are young. I think most of them (including you) would have rather kept it and raised themselves, but for many that is not an option.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:40 AM by asmeone2

reply to post by FlyersFan

Thank you for providing a loving home to a child!

I never said it should be outlawed or discouraged in the OP. I in fact questioned the way that it is often portrayed to a painless and easy alternative to abortion.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 11:43 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by FlyersFan

"I know perhaps a dozen adopted people and not one of them wishes
they were murdered before birth."

I would just like to say: I'm 23, I was adopted when I was 5 months old by two wonderful people. I'm currently pursuing a degree in graphic design. I love classic rock, art, and reading. My favorite show is Seinfeld.
I am VERY thankful that I was given a chance to enjoy life.
Cheers!