Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion. , page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 07:58 AM by Lokey13
reply to post by FlyersFan


Prepare to be SCHOOLED

1.The baby has to be aborted before 24 weeks in massachusetts, according to state law, I understand thats later then when the heart starts to beat. (I may be somewhat against this if this is the case I need to read about brain tissue developement then I'd make a decision) The baby's heart starts to beat at 5 weeks. Yes extremely early but you should have realized your mistake by this time, don't need to be a genius to say, "hey I just made a bad decision last night and decided to have unprotected sex(or protected still at a higher risk if birth control is not in use), maybe I should get to the hospital before this snowball rolls into an avalanche".

2. So it's ok for me to strip your ovaries down and eat those eggs then? I don't know where your trying run with that.

3. Abortion is commited in nature all the time, animals kill animals constantly. How many pregnant animal mother's are killed and therefor the baby aborted, how many eggs are robbed from nests for sustanance among other animals, how many baby animals get eaten a year because they are the easiest prey or are just killed to cleanse the pack. Yes these all may be natural causes but more babies are murdered in the wild then near anything we encounter, the human population has no quota which animals seem to have, if giving a choice of an abortion is going to control partial population for bastard pregnancies then so be it.

4. What are your feelings if a woman is raped? Should she be allowed to have an abortion then? Or should she have to go through something that was forced upon her.

5. Next time your post could do without the sass.




[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 08:16 AM by Question
reply to post by asmeone2



I know this might be a little off topic OP. But your snippet on the costs of pregnancy are astoundingly ridiculous! I mean honestly, WTH???? What is wrong in this society where even bringing a new life to this world is going to end up costing you an arm in a leg at delivery? 200,000????? Ugh, guess I'm going to have to reconsider having a child. Not because we don't want to or we don't think we're not fit to do it. But the costs associated are ridiculous! I don't know, maybe I'll just become a canadian citizen and leave here. I honestly can't stand to look at the ridiculous costs for health insureance anymore! With the way the medical system is here in the U.S. I wouldn't even want to pretend to be an illegal immigrant to get their "free healthcare" (trust me, it's junk by comparison)

To give you an idea. My aunt had some severe illness she had to take care of through months of painstaking surgery etc. The paymentwas so ridiculous, she said "You have to ask if there's a discount, because if you don't, then they won't give it to you" Yeah, she got 20% off her bill. But the point of the story, and a point my father (her brother) made was, that he was sick to his stomach of the idea that she actually had to bargain for her own health and her own life, because the system is so messed up. It really makes me worried about my and my wife's wellbeing. What ever happened to the hyppocratic oath doctors are sworn to take? Are we going to have to re-consider it being re-written so that it involves more care? It's heartless, utterly heartless

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Question]


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 08:28 AM by Darthorious
In the end there's only one person who will make that decision maybe two if it's a couple.

The title of the thread is confusing. So you would rather be dead than have been adopted?

Some of you have this false ideal about what having a family is. I can say this because my family was, and some still are, way screwed up.

Lets see, I had to work to buy my own clothes so I worked 40hours a week, went to school, did chores, made my own food and washed my own clothes, forced to play sports, do church plays and play the clarinet (A guy should never be forced to play the clarinet it's just not cool).

This started very early in my life. My brother tried to shoot me 3 times, my mother attempted to drowned me, at 15 my mother disowned me from the family because I used god's name in vane and never spoke to me again (I was pretty happy when that happened). The list goes on and on.

Point is family is what you make it not what the parental figures in your life make it. That being said what did that screwed up childhood make me?

Independent for one I was never so glad to leave. My mom told me the day you graduate high school your kicked out of this house and not coming back. The moment I walked off the stage with my diploma I got in the car went to the airport and left 1000 miles away.

I made my life what I wanted it and could never be happier at this point. People complain about going to work and I have to laugh in the back of my head thinking "Work? bah this is the easiest money I have ever made".

When was the last time your parent said this to you, "I grounded you because your friend was naughty, I'm not punishing you I'm just punishing your friend and by grounding you he won't be able to see you."

Be carefull what you wish for because you just might get it.

Point is it's your life so do something with it.

This isn't meant as sarcasm or my life is worse blah blah blah it's just a point of live your life and don't worry about the past just enjoy the present.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 08:33 AM by pause4thought
We're always treading on eggshells in this debate. First thing I want to say is the keynote when addressing anyone in a dilemma such as an unwanted pregnancy has to be compassion.

As to the specifics of the current debate I do feel it cannot be emphasized enough that when a pregnancy is terminated, as they say, it is very often a great deal more than a blob of jelly that is in question. A great deal. Here's a little evidence from a previous discussion:


What are people legally aborting?




reply to post by Lokey13



What are your feelings if a woman is raped? Should she be allowed to have an abortion then? Or should she have to go through something that was forced upon her.


This is a direct reply I offered elsewhere:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My basic premise is:

Abortion should never be permitted, as two wrongs don't make a right. Killing does not solve rape. Such children can be adopted, for example.

Perhaps it was a reading of that debate that lead to this thread focussed on adoption per se? In any case this present debate is very welcome addition.

Sidenote - the end of that other debate, on p.10, touched on the reality of what the abortion procedure can mean, and what adoption can help avoid.

Just to add that I've found the personal testimonies in here very moving.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 08:40 AM by Jemison
reply to post by Darthorious






Some of you have this false ideal about what having a family is. I can say this because my family was, and some still are, way screwed up.


Wow. My heart goes out to you for what you have endured and I am impressed that rather than have a victim mentality as many in your shoes would, you seem to have taken charge of your life and have made wise decisions. Kudos to you!

I thought I had it rough when part of my punishment would be my Dad waking me up at 5 a.m. to weed the front yard ... and rather than do the work myself I would call a boyfriend who would ride his bike a mile to my house and do the work for me while I drank the diet coke he brought me! Actually, my Dad was a bit tougher on me than that but it was tough love, not mean or spiteful and I see why he was so hard on me and respect him immensely for it.

Jemison



reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 08:42 AM by FlyersFan
Originally posted by Lokey13
Prepare to be SCHOOLED

Right back atchya.

The baby has to be aborted before 24 weeks in massachusetts, according to state law,

I have no idea if that is true or not but either way ... so what?

The baby's heart starts to beat at 5 weeks.

18 days

Brain function at 40 days.
Response movement to stimulus at 6-7 weeks.
At 11 weeks the baby is breathing.
At 13 weeks the baby can taste!

Fetal baby pictures
Note at 8 weeks old the baby has all his fingers and toes and is not 'mush'.

So it's ok for me to strip your ovaries down and eat those eggs then? I don't know where your trying run with that.

It was said here that eating eggs is the same as having an abortion of a human baby. That's totally not true.

Abortion is commited in nature all the time, animals kill animals constantly.

Animals kill animals - but animal mothers do NOT rip their children from their womb just to make life easier for themselves. Abortion is not committed in nature except by humans and usually just for selfish reasons.

What are your feelings if a woman is raped?

Do not punish the innocent child by pressuring a mother to kill her unborn child. Rape counts for a VERY SMALL statistic of abortions in this country. It is still better for a mother to just suffer the anguish of a rape rather than compound the anguish by adding murder of her child to her mental health troubles.

Next time your post could do without the sass.

Thank you for your advice, however I'll post however I feel like.


Again - adoption IS a very good alternative to murdering the child.
I know perhaps a dozen adopted people and not one of them wishes
they were murdered before birth.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 09:05 AM by crmanager
reply to post by asmeone2



You are not "right."

The affect on the Mother who brought the baby to conception vastly pales to the affect of the aborted child.

I pray for your soul. You will need it.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 09:30 AM by nixie_nox
reply to post by asmeone2



Against what many people here feel, services need to be provided so more people are capable of keeping a baby.

If a lot of people had their way, there would be no abortion, no contraceptives at school, no wic or medicaid. So you have to have a baby and make it.

You can't have it all folks.

What needs to be done is like the PP, the reason for unplanned pregnancies need to be addressed, not the final solution.
Most teenage pregnancies have had abuse in their lifetime. They have lousy parents and basically an unhappy home. And no sex education.
There need to be ready access to birth control. Most people live more then 20 miles to a clinic. A 15 yo on the down low has no way of getting there.

A lot more education needs to be provided about abusive relationships. Most likely a teenage girl from a broken home seeks these out, not knowing how real love is supposed to be.

But in the case someone wasn't reached, a safe haven needs to be provided, including daycare and job training.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 09:35 AM by BlackMumba
reply to post by FlyersFan



Thanks for that, a lot of people think a fetus is just "mush" when in fact at 8 weeks it isn't , but that's an excuse many pro abortion supporters use because then they don't have to face the facts or deal with their murdering ways.


reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 09:54 AM by justgeneric
An excellent post Asme

As a single mother I had a few scares with my daughter when she hit 17. She never had her father around and fell right into the absent father routine easily (despite out talking about the syndrome and the effects of it).

It seemed she was damn determined to get herself pregnant.

We sat down and we talked about some very serious stuff. Some of which you pointed out here. It was an eye opening experience for me (and her).

I was shocked by how little of my teaching about safe sex, responsibility, love and the rampant hormones of youth, actually mattered to her when she first formulated this whole romantic notion of being a pregnant teen.

We talked about MANY things. it was a hard conversation but had to be done.

I was brutally frank with her about the effects on the people around her and the repercussions of keeping the baby. And about giving it up.

This is what I pointed out to her. It only takes two people to create a child. It takes literally hundreds to raise it. There were people who would have to factor in that she hadn't even considered. Impacts that she hadn't considered.

We talked about abortion and the effects of that. I have never had an abortion so I had her talk to my friend who had. A woman now in her 50's who had both abortion and given up a child up for adoption. It was eye opening for both of us.

In the end it turned out she wasn't pregnant (thank frank), and I am hoping that now she if she decides to have kids she'll remember all that she learned and do her best to ensure she's having a child with the very best intentions, not just for herself...but for all of the people who will be involved in that child's immediate future.

It's such a hard topic for people to discuss an generates many passions and fears for both sides of the argument.

I believe it's a woman's choice over all - for someone else to dictate that a woman be forced to carry a child to term as a means of "punishment" for having gotten pregnant in the first place is a ridiculous premise.

Abortion is a devastating event. There is no way around this. The woman's physical and mental state suffer.

However the effect of having a child under any kind of "forced" (be it social pressure, legal pressure, religious pressure etc etc) is a far worse fate for mother and child. There are so many other people who can be negatively impacted as well depending on circumstances by the "joyous" event.

My mother and her brother and sisters were put up for adoption. They were adopted out and suffered at the hands of the people who adopted them.

My friend who is in her 50's - put her son up for adoption and he had a wonderful life. The abortion she had she never forgot, but at the time it really was her best choice. The pain of giving up her son (in spite of his good success) remains and it's very hard for her.

My BF was given up and raised by his grands - a good but still difficult life being raised by people well past the age to have a rambunctious little boy dismantling their house

There are more points but I'm on my way out

I support choice. It is such a personal issue and so very defendant on individual circumstance that for a society to even try to put generalized "conditions" on the issue is extremely wrong.
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