Adoption is not a good alternative to abortion. , page 2

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reply posted on 10-12-2008 @ 11:23 PM by Good Wolf

reply to post by asmeone2

I had a long philosophical debate about this. The conclusion was that to aid prevention, society had to make it almost impossible to accidentally conceive.

The idea was that we put a safe contraceptive in the water, and when a couple wanted to conceive, they take an anti-contraceptive pill and then go bump-uglies.

Course the draw back is that such a system will be objectionable environmental types and religious groups who'll argue that it's playing God.
(and if you believe in the NWO, world elite, the system could be misused)

Frankly it seems like there is no real way to help people because they'll fight attempts.

Along with what you said, the other thing is just education, which I believe is already being tried but any results are going to be limited.

reply posted on 10-12-2008 @ 11:58 PM by Clearskies

reply to post by asmeone2

As someone who HAD an abortion, and the reason I didn't want to put it up for adoption were SELFISH (I will miss it, I'll have empty arms.. the effects on my body. )
(if I had a 'closed' adoption) I could make contact with that child!
But, no. I killed it.

I WAS a mess for 4 years, even spending 6 months in a mental institution where they almost killed me with Haldol!
Suicide attempts, overdosing on stelazine, not being able to sleep with the lights off and agoraphobia, also psychotic features.........
NO psychiatrist or therapist even put a dent in my traumatic life.
Until I asked Jesus to forgive me!
Deciding to put a baby up for adoption is a long process/
Decisions or signatures made BEFORE the birth of the baby have NO legal ramifications after the birth.
Adoption services

If you have been thinking about raising the child or placing the child for adoption, none of the decisions you made or the documents you signed prior to the baby's birth are binding on you. You have every right to change your mind as often as you want. However, as regards the adoption process, there are limitations in your ability to change your mind.

Women can opt for an 'open' adoption, giving her access to the child after the adoption.
Adoption

Choosing adoption means carrying your child to term, giving birth and then legally giving your child to another couple who assume all parental rights for the child. While in the past closed and completely private adoptions, whereby the birth mother knew absolutely nothing about who was adopting her child, was the norm, nowadays birth mothers have a choice.

More birth parents, as well as adoptive parents, are choosing to have an open adoption. In this type of adoption, the birth mother takes an active role in choosing the adoptive parents, meeting and interviewing potential couples. Often, the birth mother and adoptive parents are able to form some type of informal relationship and many continue this relationship after the child is born.

Adoptions.org
addresses the issues involved in the decision of adoption.

Placing a child for adoption is almost always a traumatic decision even when there are compelling reasons to do so. For some, the decision is made with a reasonable amount of planning and thought; for others, it's a decision made in crisis. As we learned from talking with birthmothers, it's always life-altering and it's always accompanied by fear - fears that will not be realized or dispelled until the actual placement is made - and for some, not until long after.

This is a good site that explains what an adoptive family can do if the birth mother closes the adoption; Here
A potential adoptive family pays for medical and living expenses.
Financial assistance for birth mothers
Also, I had my first live baby on Medicaid and it COMPLETELY paid for everything.
I got clothes at consignment shops or baby showers.
I nursed so my expenses were nill.
This site as a Christian adoption agency ALSO spells out how difficult the decision of adoption can be.

However, adoption is rarely, if at all, a simple decision or process. There are many issues to be dealt with, many choices to be made and many concepts to be understood. Depending on the circumstances involved, the process can get quiet complicated. We know that each person’s experience will be different. All of this underscores the value of receiving helpful support along the way from a reputable agency.

edit to add: I was wrong about the age of my aborted child. I could've met him/her last year! I had the procedure in 1989.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Clearskies]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:05 AM by Good Wolf

reply to post by Clearskies

This'll be one subject we generally agree on.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:11 AM by Clearskies

reply to post by Good Wolf

Thanks for that.
I used to NEVER talk about my abortion. Shame, guilt.
The world doesn't want to care about the effects on women who chose to do so.
Now, I am pro-active about it.
I have three children (Boys).

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:27 AM by Good Wolf

reply to post by Clearskies

And I'm glad. People like yourself, who've experienced these things, have more influence morally. Keep it up.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 12:41 AM by BlackMumba

I don't want to step on any toes here so let me just say the following is MY opinion only and is in no way meant to cause disrespect to anyone.

Firstly how about teaching young girls the responsibility of safe sex instead of giving them a ticket to kill their child and advising them that murder is better for them to deal with than adopting the baby out? What about the baby? is there no thought at all for the child that is growing out of lack of responsibility on the parents part?

Im sick of pro abortion movements. If anyone has seen what happens during an abortion it would turn any pro abortion supporters stomach a baby is a baby at 8 weeks regardless of arguments it is fact.

As for the women faced with such a struggle , where is the support for her in making the right decision? how is she going to know that 10 years down the line she made a mistake .

There is not enough support for women facing a choice of abortion or adoption these days, I have met countless women on both sides of the fence and all have psychological and emotional problems which are damaging their lives all because they didn't get the proper support they needed.

I truly think that if you are responsible enough to have sex you are responsible enough to raise any child that may come from your actions.

Human life is precious but nowadays babies in the womb are seen as nothing more than expendable objects that hinder a life.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 01:06 AM by ThePiemaker

Yea there's just too much negativity going around about procreation. It starts in the church, but it makes its way into other area's of life.

Parents need to be there for their kids even when they make a mistake. I don't understand why parents have to view their teenage pregnancy so negatively. Teenagers are damned if they keep the child, they're damned if they get an abortion, they're damned if they give it up for adoption. How about loving your child and grandchild and supporting them both as best you can?

What about schools? How do they view teenage pregnancies these days? Haven't done any actual research on the subject but I know I've heard lots of stories about teenagers having to drop out because they were pregnant. Maybe that's just catholic schools though.

Then you have the cost of living set at ridiculous levels, a lot of single mothers have to go into debt just to support their children. it's an unkind and unfeeling system we have. It might not be so bad if people had loving families to help support them, especially the teenage pregnancies. Like I said before, if you aren't going to love your children you might as well get an abortion. I mean, if you can't be there for them when they make mistakes i don't know why you even decided to have them. That is if you even decided to have them. I bet a lot of these parents had mistakes of their own, and yet they expect their kids to be perfect. Ha!

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 01:17 AM by BlackMumba

Originally posted by ThePiemaker
Yea there's just too much negativity going around about procreation. It starts in the church, but it makes its way into other area's of life.

Parents need to be there for their kids even when they make a mistake. I don't understand why parents have to view their teenage pregnancy so negatively. Teenagers are damned if they keep the child, they're damned if they get an abortion, they're damned if they give it up for adoption. How about loving your child and grandchild and supporting them both as best you can?

What about schools? How do they view teenage pregnancies these days? Haven't done any actual research on the subject but I know I've heard lots of stories about teenagers having to drop out because they were pregnant. Maybe that's just catholic schools though.

Then you have the cost of living set at ridiculous levels, a lot of single mothers have to go into debt just to support their children. it's an unkind and unfeeling system we have. It might not be so bad if people had loving families to help support them, especially the teenage pregnancies. Like I said before, if you aren't going to love your children you might as well get an abortion. I mean, if you can't be there for them when they make mistakes i don't know why you even decided to have them. That is if you even decided to have them. I bet a lot of these parents had mistakes of their own, and yet they expect their kids to be perfect. Ha!

Oh I totally agree here, if by chance children do make mistakes and get pregnant there should be an abundance of love and support in the home and at school, it is difficult enough for a teenager / adult / rape victim to be actually pregnant but to be chastized and belittled for it too? that is too much to bear for anyone going through it.

Every teenager/person is different and I think a lot of coucelling services fail to recognize that they are dealing with a human being NOT a statistic.

Don't get me wrong I don't agree with abortion and I do believe it is murder, does that mean I think people who get abortions are evil, nasty people deserving of horror and pain in their lives? NO!! NO!! NO!!

Love and support and empathy seems to go out the window these days, no one seems to have much compassion for the human soul.

There is a severe lack of understanding when it comes to adoption and abortion and the emotional factor and how they all tie in together. It's a shame and if God forbid any of my children were to come to me and tell me they were pregnant I would support them the best way I know how, I would advise against abortion and offer to help them raise their child and to face some responsibilities but also give them whatever emotional support I could so they can live the rest of their teenage years normally and feel emotionally secure.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by BlackMumba]

[edit on 11-12-2008 by BlackMumba]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 04:42 AM by toochaos4u

You might think that the folks so opposed to abortion would love to have sex education in schools but, no they are the ones that try to ban that from schools and open talk. Hence you had whole generations of knuckleheads running around whispering such stupid crap as Asian women have a sideways vagina. Grown women running around telling their daughters they have a monkey and their sons have a worm. It is no wonder they end up pregnant.

All in all though abstinence is a failure because most never practice it. I grew up in a religious school and I'm telling you nearly everyone was having sex there and apparently everywhere else. That is why my brother has told me to have the "sex talk" with my niece this Friday. Do I want to imagine her having sex? No I do not but, I would rather she get the talk and know what to do instead of having to choose abortion or adoption or even dying from a venereal disease.

As for abortion, if it is before the brain has formed I'm fine with that. Adoption also is available but, can cause problems.later on as stated. Both are better than being a teenager and living in a dump on welfare with small children. Better yet don't get pregnant!

[edit on 11/12/2008 by toochaos4u]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:10 AM by miriam0566

the thing is, its going to be difficult no matter what the decision.

aborting a baby is difficult and traumatic. i can imagine so is giving one up for adoption.

either way, an unwanted pregnancy is not something you walk away from untouched.

the thing that bugs me about abortion debates is the focus on the mother. what about the child?

like this quote from one of the testimonies in the OP

Now, let me get this straight: if we abort our child, we are evil. Yet if we "give up" our child to strangers who you deem to be more fit as parents, then we are "good." So you consider it "good" to rip a child from his/her natural mother's arms and hand the child to "more fit" individuals, thereby creating a life-long pain and trauma to the birthmother. You really think this is good? If so, it is YOU who are SICK!

i cant help but get the impression that she feels that if she had aborted the baby, then things would have turned out better.

does child feel the same way about it?

if you pregnant and you dont want the baby, for whatever reason, good reasons or bad, the child and you are going to be hurt no matter what you do.

so i dont understand why the discussion doesnt shift from trauma, to what is best overall

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:43 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by asmeone2

I totally agree but I believe adoption isn't a bad idea and neither is abortion, just a decision you have to make yourself. I understand both ways affecting woman mentally but facts are facts if you can't pay for the baby get rid of it, I don't need another 20 year old on welfare till shes 48 which is something many people miss is how to pay for a baby when you have nothing. Well the state will pay for your baby, well or I will inadvertingly through taxes. I believe the choice is always up to the mother and there are side effects to absolutely everything in life good or bad this is just another choice. I would also have to make the arguemtn that depression cannot be linked to aborted mothers because they haven't entered any sort of cycle yet and therefor no connection to the baby; I agree remorse could affect anyone but again your decision don't get knocked up when your 18, maybe your parents should kick the crap out of your boy friend and maybe they should actually figure out what your doing all day then you may miss out on an awful young pregnancy.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:45 AM by FlyersFan

THANK GOD my daughters birth mother didn't think like you people.

Adoption is ALWAYS a better option then murder.

Every adopted person I know is very glad that they weren't murdered before being born.

To whine that abortion is better because it saves a woman from having her body changed or stretched ... or abortion is better because birth mothers sometimes get depressed for awile because they gave their children up ... or ____________ is absurd.

Murder is never better for a child.

To say that adoption is not a good alternative to death is insane.

[edit on 12/11/2008 by FlyersFan]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:47 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by miriam0566

Have you aborted a baby? Just since your the only woman here at the moment I must ask; only because you refered to it as "Traumatic" which would insinuate that you've aborted a child before. Otherwise how could you call this traumatic unless you've actually been there and no I don't mean being by a friends side.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:51 AM by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Lokey13
Just since your the only woman here at the moment

*cough* ahem ... so am I.
AND I'm an adoptive parent.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 05:52 AM by Lokey13

reply to post by FlyersFan

Abortion is not murder per the fact that the "baby" which at the time of abortion is essentially mush so how is that a person exactly? Brings me to the theory of eating eggs; basically aborted chickens but you eat them no problem and one more day of being sat on and there you go your gonna have a chicken fetus in there. Abortion is doing nothing worse then what nature takes upon it self.

I was asking her about Abortion have you aborted a child? Which I would guess no do to your disposition and the fact you've adopted.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Lokey13]

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 06:08 AM by AccessDenied

reply to post by Lokey13

I agree remorse could affect anyone but again your decision don't get knocked up when your 18, maybe your parents should kick the crap out of your boy friend and maybe they should actually figure out what your doing all day then you may miss out on an awful young pregnancy.

Sadly, there are not as many parents who are actively involved in the lives of their teens as they should be, or once were. Many of these pregnancies come about due to teens who already have problems at home, or who are homeless.
There are definite socio-economic factors that come to play here as well, but that would be a whole other thread.
As for kicking the crap outta the boyfriend.... Responsibility is to be taken on both sides. It takes two..period.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 06:14 AM by FlyersFan

Take a science class.

Originally posted by Lokey13
Abortion is not murder per the fact that the "baby" which at the time of abortion is essentially mush so how is that a person exactly?

Wrong. The baby is not 'mush'. The baby has a beating heart very early on. The baby sucks his or her thumb. The baby sleeps and wakes up. The baby yawns. The baby plays with his or her fingers and toes. The baby FEELS PAIN. (doctors who perform surgery on babies in the womb give the children drugs to deaden the pain during surgery). The baby is a baby - not 'mush'.

Brings me to the theory of eating eggs; basically aborted chickens

That's just sooooooooooo wrong. A chicken egg is just an egg. It has not been seeded and there is no baby chicken involved. Not even close. A chicken egg and a human egg still in the ovaries is the same - not an unborn human and a chicken egg.

Abortion is doing nothing worse then what nature takes upon it self.

There is nothing natural about abortion. No animal in the entire animal kingdom on earth commits abortion. No other animals except humans rip their young from the mothers womb in order to painful kill the child before birth. Not only are humans the only ones to do this, but they do it for selfish reasons. NOTHING in nature is like this. It is not something that 'nature takes upon itself'.

Thats three strikes.

Any more 'wisdom'?

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 06:25 AM by smokingmonkey

I was adopted forty years ago. I don't care what affects it has on the mother, or anguish over not knowing biological parents. Having life is a greater positive that far outweighs any negative arguments about adoption.

reply posted on 11-12-2008 @ 07:49 AM by toochaos4u

reply to post by FlyersFan

The majority of abortions are performed way before the brain is developed so yeah I would call them brain dead mush/matter. You can see this same action you described with severely brain damaged victims. They too wiggle around and move a little which at times even has families fooled that they will just snap out of it.

If you buy your chicken eggs from a farmer/free range eggs or raise them yourself as I you will know that most of those are "seeded" fertilized eggs. When you crack an egg and and if you see a white bull's eye on the yolk it is indeed fertilized and have eaten a chicken fetus. Still makes an excellent omelet though.

As some women self abort (miscarriage) and lose precious eggs every month as well as discarded sperm that can be vaguely argued.

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