Originally posted by Solomons
Can any person who knows much about the global warming phenomena answer my question about the permafrost in siberia? wheres melatonin when you need him....

Sadly, we don't get much from Siberian weather stations anymore.

In 1970, there were 15,000 stations reporting out of the then-USSR. Since 1990, and the fall of the Soviet Union, this number has been reduced to 5,000 reporting, very few of which are in Siberia. It appears that Russia let the Siberian stations fall by the wayside.

That's one reason GW climate figures show "additional heat." There's no additional heat, but a loss of some of the coldest-reporting stations we ever had available to us.

As you know, Siberia represents one of the most consistently cold climates on Earth. Without those thousands of Siberian stations, we can't assimilate these sub-freezing temperatures into our climate data.

Huge loss,no?

Originally posted by jdub297
You don't have to be afraid of warming, just that we've wasted time and money fighting something that doesn't exist when they could've been devoted to a real problem we could do something about.

It exists and it's REAL, if you've not been to other parts of the world for a span of time, you may not feel it all.

BUT it's also true that we've wasted time and money in 'fighting' the problem because we're doing it all wrong. Or possibly, it's too late to do anything about it. The problem is not money but the people who got the money and has kept the masses in the dark.

I think it's time now if they even care for their own survival for the future to step out and tell the truth on how and they kept the masses stupid and oblivious to anything but their own. We'll forgive them

After viewing "An Inconvenient Truth", I later found a couple of documentaries on what I now call the Global Warming "scandal".

Search the torrents for the following movie/documentaries:
"The Great Global Warming Swindle"
"Global Warming or Global Governance"

Both make great points with REAL science. There are former and current IPCC scientists in both movies. The second one listed goes deeper into the conspiracy behind it and even covers what REALLY could happen if carbon dioxide was to go up...more plant growth, faster plant growth.

You will learn what the IPCC is. Who actually writes the IPCC reports (it is not the scientists). You will learn that even though there are many scientists in the IPCC, they are members in name only and do not contribute to the "science" nor the reports. You will learn what gases are included in the term "greenhouse gases" and the actual percentage of each gas involved. You will meet a biologist that experiments with vegetables and fruits in a high carbon dioxide environment.

I am an American currently living in the Philippines. The Philippins is essentially one of the developing countries of the world. In some areas (Manila metro area), it is very modern. In most areas of the country, it is like a 3rd world country. The rivers are filty and look like garbage dumps, the electric grid is terrible, the water is not safe to drink, in many areas, the sewage system is nonexistent.

Pollution and the rape of the world's resources is a serious problem in most areas of the world. If I had my way, I would ban disposable diapers and paper towels. What happened to the "paperless society" that was talked about 10+ years ago with the computer invasion. Most companies are using more paper today then they did before the computer. The last time I was in the USA, I get more paper (mostly advertisements) in my mail box then I did before the computer. Last I heard, two of the fastest growing big cities in America was Las Vegas and Phoenix; both in the desert which requires even more diverting of the waters of the rivers. Not to mention that most of Southern California WAS desert.

What happened to the electric car? Solar Energy? Why do the European countries (especially France) utilize so much nuclear power? In 1979, I knew a guy that got 115 MilesPerGallon (MPG) with a modified V8 engine and I also heard of a guy in Florida that did the same thing.

Also look for a documentary called "Who Killed the Electric Car?". Excellent and fair...essentially blames everyone.

Ehm, I was thinking I will make a separate thread with this question, but I will first try to get some answers here...which would be nice n'all.

So What if There isn't Global Warming?
What is the so called swindle? What is being "swindeled"?
What is the scam?
What harm could it do to stop using fossile fuels?
What is wrong with stopping the pollution? Burning coal and oil does alot more damage than just CO2 emissions.
What is wrong with abandoning the wreckless behaviour towards our planet?

So to all of you who think that the whole GW-deal is a scam, hoax, swindle or whatever: what is the big issue? What is your fear? What could these policies harm, what does it threaten?
Personally, I can't see any reason, what so ever not to stop the pollution and move away from this dead-end that fossile fuel-addiction brings.

If GW is not real, why can't we just pretend that it is real, just to prevent it from ever becoming anything?

I think the denial of GW is mostly consistant of a) fear b) the need to be dissident just for the hell of it c) incompetence.

Many questions here, so you see why I wanted to start a thread...
If this post remains unaswered, I will do it.

Pz.

Originally posted by Raud
Ehm, I was thinking I will make a separate thread with this question, but I will first try to get some answers here...which would be nice n'all.

So What if There isn't Global Warming?
What is the so called swindle? What is being "swindeled"?
What is the scam?
What harm could it do to stop using fossile fuels?
What is wrong with stopping the pollution? Burning coal and oil does alot more damage than just CO2 emissions.
What is wrong with abandoning the wreckless behaviour towards our planet?

So to all of you who think that the whole GW-deal is a scam, hoax, swindle or whatever: what is the big issue? What is your fear? What could these policies harm, what does it threaten?
Personally, I can't see any reason, what so ever not to stop the pollution and move away from this dead-end that fossile fuel-addiction brings.

If GW is not real, why can't we just pretend that it is real, just to prevent it from ever becoming anything?

I think the denial of GW is mostly consistant of a) fear b) the need to be dissident just for the hell of it c) incompetence.

Many questions here, so you see why I wanted to start a thread...
If this post remains unaswered, I will do it.

Pz.

well..aside from the point that the truth is important...the scam is the coming carbon tax...maybe in the future we will travel restrictions...the poor countries are being kept poor...kids are being or ae going to be told to spy on their parents under the guise of preventing global warming....

theres scams all over regarding global warming...

Originally posted by alienesque
well..aside from the point that the truth is important...the scam is the coming carbon tax...maybe in the future we will travel restrictions...the poor countries are being kept poor...kids are being or ae going to be told to spy on their parents under the guise of preventing global warming....

theres scams all over regarding global warming...

Eh, what???

Let's tax the hell out of it. It will make us change focus and develop better, cleaner and most of all cheaper energy (at least in the long run). What can we possible lose from doing that? What grinds the gears are cheap, greedy people afraid of change. Just as always. It is my planet too you know!

The other factors you mentioned makes no sense at all. It sounds more like the worst case of ill-directed paranoia I have ever heard.

It is not communism we are talking about here. Get out from under whatever stone you are hiding beneath.

Poor countries are being kept poor for other reasons.

Originally posted by Raud

Originally posted by alienesque
well..aside from the point that the truth is important...the scam is the coming carbon tax...maybe in the future we will travel restrictions...the poor countries are being kept poor...kids are being or ae going to be told to spy on their parents under the guise of preventing global warming....

theres scams all over regarding global warming...

Eh, what???

Let's tax the hell out of it. It will make us change focus and develop better, cleaner and most of all cheaper energy (at least in the long run). What can we possible lose from doing that? What grinds the gears are cheap, greedy people afraid of change. Just as always. It is my planet too you know!

The other factors you mentioned makes no sense at all. It sounds more like the worst case of ill-directed paranoia I have ever heard.

It is not communism we are talking about here. Get out from under whatever stone you are hiding beneath.

Poor countries are being kept poor for other reasons.

so governments lying is ok?

odd...

'Poor countries are being kept poor for other reasons.'

that doesnt make sense...poor countries are being kept poor party BY the threat of global warming...not BECAUSE of it..

[edit on 12-12-2008 by alienesque]

[edit on 12-12-2008 by alienesque]

Originally posted by alienesque
so governments lying is ok?

odd...

'Poor countries are being kept poor for other reasons.'

that doesnt make sense...poor countries are being kept poor party BY the threat of global warming...not BECAUSE of it..

Lying governments are never ok. But first we need to see if there is a lie here or not. I see pictures of melting polar ice. I see melting glaciers in South America and in the Far East. I see entire nations in Micronesia succumbing to rising water levels. Can't you see that?

So you say that poverty did not exist prior to the GW-debate? And how would you develop the idea that the GW "scam" is causing poverty? It is not due to that GW causes misgrowth in crops? Because of more rain falling in places where those periods are heavier and vice-versa?

You posts are to little use, if any at all. None of my questions answered.

Originally posted by Raud

Originally posted by alienesque
so governments lying is ok?

odd...

'Poor countries are being kept poor for other reasons.'

that doesnt make sense...poor countries are being kept poor party BY the threat of global warming...not BECAUSE of it..

Lying governments are never ok. But first we need to see if there is a lie here or not. I see pictures of melting polar ice. I see melting glaciers in South America and in the Far East. I see entire nations in Micronesia succumbing to rising water levels. Can't you see that?

So you say that poverty did not exist prior to the GW-debate? And how would you develop the idea that the GW "scam" is causing poverty? It is not due to that GW causes misgrowth in crops? Because of more rain falling in places where those periods are heavier and vice-versa?

You posts are to little use, if any at all. None of my questions answered.

of course i see those things..i also see the south polar ice caps at record levels..and glaciers all over the world growing....we only however get to hear of the shrinking ones..

i NEVER said GW is causing poverty.. i said it can be used..and will be used..to help KEEP the poor poor...

the weather changes..it always has done...never heard of the ice age?..or the Medieval Warm Period?

Originally posted by ahnggk
It exists and it's REAL, if you've not been to other parts of the world for a span of time, you may not feel it all.

BUT it's also true that we've wasted time and money in 'fighting' the problem because we're doing it all wrong. Or possibly, it's too late to do anything about it. The problem is not money but the people who got the money and has kept the masses in the dark.

Whether its warming or cooling, man did not cause it.

We should focus on the things we have caused like polluted water ways and denudation of earth or excess nutrient runoff. These are serious and people can fix them.

The real point of the piece is that IPCC and GW advocates are wrong on two counts: Cause and effect.

Man did not cause the alleged GW, and the measured effect is actually global cooling.

I'm pretty sure one of the long term agendas of the "Global Warming" movement is to tax people for the air they breath. The Al Gore electrostatic towers for example. Assorted rationals for why people must eventually pay to breath air. This really translates into life time slavery like property taxes and the like.

Originally posted by ReelView
I'm pretty sure one of the long term agendas of the "Global Warming" movement is to tax people for the air they breath. The Al Gore electrostatic towers for example. Assorted rationals for why people must eventually pay to breath air. This really translates into life time slavery like property taxes and the like.

Well, we need water to live just like air. But in the UK we pay through the roof of water taxes and bills. If you don't/can't pay they come to cut your water supply.

WTF.

[edit on 12-12-2008 by Jinni]

So if global warming isn't real, why did the north pole break up over the summer?