Suicide and its consequences

This is a topic of great importance as it is something that relates to a very large amount of people.

First of all, there is nothing right nor wrong about committing suicide, which is ending ones own life. However, that does not mean there won't be consequences for doing such. Everything in the universe exists within specific set rules and laws, divine principles if you want, and ending ones own life is killing a living being, in this case ones own physical body.

What is the implications of doing so? Well, that all depends on ones personal spiritual development and understanding, for the majority it would not be a wise thing to do, as they would end up in lower astral planes after such an event, possibly even in the negative hostile realms where suicide victims often tend to find themselves.

But, there is not a golden rule to what happens, as said it depends on the person. You may have heard of native american indians custom about going out in the desolated woods alone and lying down to die as they get old? If not, that is at least the case with certain tribes - as they reach their final year they go out and simply let death come , in a peaceful and harmonic way out in nature. You may call it a "final out of body experience / astral projection", where they consciously let their astral body (soul) separate from their physical body as the physical body dies.

There is however always a reason for people ending up in situations where they get desperate enough to do such a thing as suicide - and this is what really should be worked on, people need to understand that what they get is what they deserve, no matter how cruel that may sound, because they are not properly living in harmony and balance with the universal laws and themselves. If they had done so, they would not have ended up in such a situation in the first place. And, once in such a situation, there is always a way out of it, and I am not talking about suicide - but re-balancing oneself and getting back into harmony and peace with oneself and existence.

This may not be easy for most people though, mostly due to the problems of accepting such a reality and understanding it, so most people tend to get stuck in their situation, and often make it worse, by focusing negatively instead of positively. A healthy, positive, pure mind will give a healthy, positive and pure life and physical health and wealth.

The Law of Attraction, the Law of Cause and Effect, the reality of Thought Forms and the power of our Mind is all things that play a great role in our destiny and how our lives turn out.

You get what you give, and you give what you get. Of course there are external influences that play a role, but these are possible to shield oneself from - or in the case of positive influences one can harness them and take them in advantage. All this can be learned, if the principles of the governing laws are understood, followed and lived by.

So, with that said, I would not advocate or recommend suicide, rather I would try to get a person whom consider such a thing to re-consider his condition and try to see if there may be things in his own life that has caused him to end up in the situation he is in, and if it thus is possible to reverse this condition by changing the patterns of thoughts, lifestyle, behavior, harmonizing and balancing oneself towards greater heights of existence until the time comes naturally.

A lot of the spirits I mentioned in my previous post about Ghosts and the afterlife are suicide victims, those whom roam the earth in lower astral realms, stuck there and either not knowing what to do, or trying to get in contact with their loved ones, filled with shame and regret for what they have done to themselves and their friends and family and so on, and the majority of suicide victims will not experience an immediate joyful after-life scenario.

With best wishes, and profound peace
IX-777

I have a huge problem with your post and I am very qualified to speak on this topic.

First of all, my Father has at many times been suicidal. There is no other way to say it other than he is miserable. He had something very traumatic happen to him when he was young and his Mother never protected him from whatever it was. He in fact says she advocated it. Now, knowing the woman the way I do, I can tell you I have no idea how he even made it this far. She is the most negative, mean spirited woman I know. He was an only child and had noone else. He was brought up with her mind games and of course when brought up in such a manner you have no reason to believe other than the way you were raised. He struggles daily with demons, low self-esteem, and any other negative thing you can imagine as well as health problems. When you can't trust your own mother and get love from her who can you get it from???? Well, he has us but we have never been able to help him overcome it. My Dad will never truly be happy and it's not his fault. I can truly say noone would choose to live that way. Since i was young I have waited for the day he could take it no more...and what a shame because he is a kind and loving man with a good heart.

The other reason I feel I am qualified to speak on this is that when I was 25 years old I met a man who's wife had committed suicide 3 months prior leaving him and a precious 4 yr old son who I now have adopted and call my own. I did not know her but the story goes that she was a very strong young woman who found encountered health problems. She foudn that she had Cushions Syndrome and there was a rumor that she had a tumor but it has never been substantiated. Everyone said that she and my husband were inseperable and he and our son were her world. My husband is not one that deals with things. He believes if he doesn't think about it then it is not happening. She hid her illness from him for whatever reason. Did her own research and after a time of battling chronic pain and uncertainty she ended her life. I can tell you it was hell for the ones left behind. And everyone that knew her said that the only reason that they can think of that she would have done it is to prevent her husband and child from suffering and not being in a right frame of mind. They had started her on anti-depressants and other meds and it could have very easily been the reason for her actions.

My last reason....I myself have suffered from a chronic illness and because of the fact they have been on different meds. When I started taking one particular medication it altered everything about me. I could have watched you slit someone's throat in front of me and not shed a tear. I had no feelings whatsoever for my husband or children. I had thoughts i have never had...I too thought it wasn't worth it. Luckily, my mother noticed that something was not right and immediatley brought it to my attention and I demanded a change in meds.

You can't judge everyone's situation. I am strongly against suicide...I have lived with the fear of it growing up and I have dealt with the results with my family. It was 12+ years ago and I am happy to say that my son is a very well adjusted young man. But to throw a blanket of judgement out there is just not right. Some people don't have a support system. I'm sure you meant well....i'm just saying it's not as cut and dry as it may seem.

the only thing that gives humans the right to claim suicide shouldn't happen is the fact that humans do every single stupid thing imaginable. animals don't kill themselves and they don't murder either. it's irresponsible for humans to claim that suicide is harmful while at the same time it makes perfect sense.

people don't commit suicide in a vacuum, either their families or their lives are jacked up. they're probably right, this world blows goats and it's gonna stay that way for a LOOOOOOOONG time. if someone wants to off themselves it's their stupid "right" to do it. the same people telling them not too will be billing them mountains of cash out the back door.

I never said suicides would not leave pain for those left after the suicidal victims - that is of a completely different topic and has nothing to do with the suicidals themselves, but those so called victims.

As the last poster said, for some "life blows goat", and that is because of their own actions -mostly- and nothing else.

If people lived in true balance and harmony they would not end up in such a situation.

Living in false balance and harmony and still ending up in a negative situation do not mean they did their best - no matter how cruel or false that may sound to you.

With that said, all will go to Love when their time comes no matter what, so rest assure that anyone whom have ended their own life on their own will be good in the end in any case. And my condolances to anyone whom have experienced this.

I may seem a bit cold, due to my connection with the spirit world and the ones you call "dead", but that does not mean I do not understand your feelings, in fact I have had several friends during my lifetime here committing their own acts of suicide. This do not bother me however, it was their choice.

Peace profound.
IX-777

I'm not one crying easily (guy btw), but I couldn't help reading your reply, anonymous ATS. Thank you so much!

Thanks to IX-777 for this thread, you have given me a new perspective for life.

This is a subject that I am qualified to comment on. My husband committed suicide five years ago. I watched him go from a smart, healthy, productive member of society to a sick, deranged shell of a person in one years time. He tried 4 times to kill himself and finally made it on the 5th try. Eleven doctors still can not tell me what was wrong with him or what caused him to do it.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Suicide is the most selfish act a person can do.

It is a known fact that if one person kills themselves someone else in their family will eventually try to do the same thing. They not only destroy their own lives they negatively alter the lives of everyone that knew them. The guilt it causes is almost too much to to carry.

Most people can be helped. Some people can't. For those that are left behind.... DON'T accept the guilt. YOU did nothing wrong.

Originally posted by Shystargazer
For those that are left behind.... DON'T accept the guilt. YOU did nothing wrong.

Well said, and something I have considered for my hypothetical note for a very long time, if I can be frank. I'm glad to see a thread on this topic, because it's one of the few subjects left with a real stigma. Mention it to your friends and alarm bells instantly start ringing. If you actually end up doing it, then they're a party to it, and responsible.

Ultimately, though, they're going to feel responsible either way. And thinking about that, and the scenario that Shystargazer described is more or less what's kept me here so long feeling this way. That and fear I guess.

Anyhoo, it's definitely a quandry, and I hate to think about it - and hate to make anyone who might read this feel in any way responsible (please don't). I'm trying to find something to help, but I hate shrinks and meds and there's so much other crap out there and so much of it, I believe, is just that - crap.

reply to post by TheStev


I managed to get my husband to the hospital 4 times. I still feel guilty for the 5th time. On the 3rd time the police officer that responded to the emergency call took me aside and said to me..."Next time that this happens Don't call, just go for a very long walk." Everyone responds differently. His family forgot about the 4 times I tried to save him. They blame me for the 5th time.

If you ever need someone to talk to.........I'm here.

If anyone needs someone to talk to......I'm here.

reply to post by IX-777


I think you are way off base on what happens to suicide victims.

However, as far as how they get to that place, I think it's always so easy to just blame that person. Balance is required in everything, including blame. Society is to blame for suicide just as much as the person that takes their own life.

Until the environment changes, people cannot truly change to a balanced life. You cannot live without other people and be balanced. You are leaving a part of life out.

Depression...it is a scary thing and when you suffer from it as I do, you can't control it easily, no matter how happy you are in your life. It is chemical. You get down for no reason at all sometimes and you can't explain that to anyone.

I take medication for my depression but it took me years to seek help. People who have never had it all their life have NO idea what it is like. I repeat NO idea! It's like you are in a dark place and there is no light, and no matter what anyone says - you can't get out of the hole. It's not until you start to feel little better that getting out of the hole can occur.

I had a friend who used to always tell me to 'snap out of it' until he himself suffered a nervous breakdown after some personal issues. He took pills for a while and now he is fine and only needed medication for the during of his depression. He does not have to deal with it on an hourly, daily, yearly basis like many of us, but he finally understood what it felt like to be in that state.

Yes suicide can be seen as selfish but to many people it's the only way to make the pain stop, and unless you live with that constant feeling of hopelessness all the time (due to chemical imbalances) you can never know what it feels like to NEVER feel happiness.

I don't judge those who have taken their own lives because I know just how painful life can be when you are depressed and can't even begin to try getting out of the hole. If people tried to understand just how debilitating depression can be instead of telling people to 'get over it' etc then they may be less suicides today.

Originally posted by Mozzy
the only thing that gives humans the right to claim suicide shouldn't happen is the fact that humans do every single stupid thing imaginable. animals don't kill themselves and they don't murder either. it's irresponsible for humans to claim that suicide is harmful while at the same time it makes perfect sense.

Don't be so sure. Animals don't have as high of an understanding of self as humans. However, it's been proven that they suffer from cognitive and emotional disorders just as humans do. The difference is animals live so much more by instinct than humans, and they are not forced to live in a completely backwards, subjective society the way people are.

An abused dog will "murder" other dogs, I've seen it happen. That dog was probably raised in a fearful and violent environment, just as emotionally unstable humans are. Animals have varying degrees of emotional development, which in some cases leads to self-destructive behavior, even suicide.

I can't believe the lack of empathy in this thread so far. IX-777 have you considered the fact that there are some who commit suicide because of a mental disorder?

You can honestly say someone deserves to suffer in your interpretation of the 'afterlife' or 'spirit world' because of a chemical imbalance? People with mental disorders cannot simply choose to be in 'harmony' with the universe, especially if they don't even believe in universal harmony in the first place.

No offense, but that entire OP has no grounds for people who don't believe in life after death--especially considering your particular view is not very common. It seems as if you not only expect everyone, including people with mental disorders, to not only suddenly have an epiphany about living harmoniously with 'nature' but you expect them to believe there is an afterlife, ghosts roam the Earth, and suicide is selfish.

I do not expect you to agree, or find me cuddly or comforting.

Regarding mental disorders, people have them for a reason. It is not as simple as your science want to have it such as your medical institutions and psychiatry would tell.

It is irrelevant if you, or anyone, believe in the after-life or not, as the same Laws and Principles are in place for all of us, regardless if one believe in them or not.

I never said anyone deserve to suffer, they certainly dont. Everyone deserves the best, and in fact that is why I am here to try teach people more about how they can get more of the Good in Life and less of the Bad.

However, I do see that my viewpoints and what I say could be felt as offending or rude to some people, and that is fair enough and my apologies to those.

With that said, I will not continue this specific thread as I can see it may step on someones toes and be misunderstood and leading to negative reactions in some readers.

May love be with you all, and great blessings
IX-777

Originally posted by Shystargazer
His family forgot about the 4 times I tried to save him. They blame me for the 5th time.

That would honestly be deeply heart-breaking if my heart wasn't already broken. And that was the gist of that section of my hypothetical note: that if you have to blame someone please blame me. I'd like to meet you all in the next life and don't want you to hate me there, but I don't want you to hate yourselves, and I don't want you to hate each other, so please blame me if you have to blame someone.

Strange that I keep posting in this thread when I'm drunk and therefore more honest. I don't even know why I'm posting to be completely honest, although my best mate just told me, as a part of a much larger conversation, that 'in a lot of ways I'm a suicide waiting to happen'. Made me think of this thread.

Anyway, Shystargazer, I truly hope that your husband's family lets go of that blame and sees everything you did for your husband. I'm not trying to say that suicide is justified for me because I'm lonely, but if I'd had a wife, any wife, even the worst wife in the world, I don't think I'd be in this place. I may not be happy, I'm willing to admit that - discontent might be inherent with the level of awareness I have - but I wouldn't be in this place.

In vino veritas. I'm gonna hit Post Reply now before I change my mind, close Firefox, and this whole rant is lost forever.

Spiral Out.

I found out my friend commited suicide Oct 20th,and I will say she always tried to put on a front that she was well off,always envious of others as well as being arrogant,she was broke had to live at an ex boyfriends house,several; failed relationships,She wouldn't get a job at a Target store because she thought someone might see her,in the end her vanity took over,now her kids are left without parents,btw her husband put gun in his mouth and blew his brains out in front of then 4 yr old son,cowards way out,just goes to show you,life isn't always riding on top,everyone has to hit bottom one time or another

I frequently post on ATS, but (obviously) not about suicide.
My husband committed suicide 12 years ago this February.
Time heals *all* someone said.
That someone lied.
Time does not heal.
Time does not take away the pain, the questions, the torment.
Time does not clear my mind of the vision.
Seeing the gun to his head, his finger on the trigger, the slow motion *snap* then the blur of matter splattering my nice white new high tops.
Time will not tell me why I hid those sneakers behind the bathroom door under a towel and found them days later.
Time will never give back the love that was there and ripped out of my heart as the bullet ripped out of his skull.
Time does not heal the fact I couldn’t even hold him because there wasn’t anything recognizable from the head up to hug and hold.
Time will not heal the guilt that I was TERRIFIED of his corpse in that 14 minutes between the time he killed himself and the Paramedics arrived.
Time does not heal my questions why his death certificate reads *near immediate* and I’ve still not been able to search out what *near immediate* could mean. Did he hear me scream his name?
No, time will not and can not heal that question, any questions.
Time will not go back and remind the coroner to pick up the instruments of her trade instead of leaving them in the shed for me to clean up later.
Time will not heal my loss of innocence, belief in others, ability to open up, or believe in anyone again.
Time cannot take away the smells that give me flashbacks of him... Warm skin... Crest toothpaste... His deodorant... Fresh cut grass stains on blue jean knees... The thick smell of blood mixed with urine and semen and excrement that vacated his body at death.
Time will help me come to terms with the few handfuls of gray gritty dust that once was everything in my life to me.
Time will not heal my inability to control my reflex to loud noises, my eating disorder, alcoholism and self inflicted injury behavior - all falling on me since his death.
Time will never explain to me why he didn’t take me with him.
Time will never ever ever convince me it wasn’t my fault, I could have done something more, fought harder...
Time changes nothing, heals nothing, is nothing but something that goes on as if he never existed.
But I know he did.

People have a right to suicide you say?
Sure they do.
Should they act on that right?
Depends on their situation I guess.
I'll not take their right away, but don't ask me to support it either.

If you or anyone around you is suicidal, please, get help...


On Line Suicide Help/Hotline

peace

reply to post by IX-777

With that said, I will not continue this specific thread as I can see it may step on someones toes and be misunderstood and leading to negative reactions in some readers.

You started it - you should have the guts to keep the thread alive.

Next time before you post something controversial - especially with an uncommon point of view, please check first to see if you have it in you to keep it going.

...peace...



[edit on 11-12-2008 by silo13]

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
cowards way out,just goes to show you,life isn't always riding on top,everyone has to hit bottom one time or another

I agree it's the cowards way out. To many people have had it bad in their life but they made it through one way or another. Some people have the gutts to stick it out while others don't. Suicide is just an excuse they should call it coward and if you commit it then that's what you were.

Silo13: Have it going? As said, my intention was not to come and offend anyone, thus I see no reason to continue the thread as people seem to be offended, and perhaps even hurt from what I say - or would have said.

I could have continued, but I don't feel this is the right place for this discussion - should you want to discuss it with me feel free to privately message me and I would be more than happy to do so.

With that said, I do stand at the same viewpoint as stated in my original post

Blessings
IX-777

Originally posted by IX-777So, with that said, I would not advocate or recommend suicide, rather I would try to get a person whom consider such a thing to re-consider his condition and try to see if there may be things in his own life that has caused him to end up in the situation he is in, and if it thus is possible to reverse this condition by changing the patterns of thoughts, lifestyle, behavior, harmonizing and balancing oneself towards greater heights of existence until the time comes naturally.

Looks like you have no personal experience with long term, hard core clinical depression.

You can't just "think positive" and have it all get better. That is like saying if you are dying of terminal cancer, just "think positive" and if you still die you just weren't trying hard enough.