this has been going on way too long. second to seeing "the real" birth certificate all i wana know is why would anyone defend the leader to be when he refuses to defend himself?

a champion that does not defend the title does not deserve it

If this was a suspected illegal Mexican who had possibly forged a BC or their were doubts to the BC he presented, but yet got elected with half of Americans voting for him, would you defend him the same way you do Obama?

Just curious.

Originally posted by Rizen
We are concerned with the consequences of his/her actions regardless of who the president elect is.
You are concerned with OBAMA being the president.

Please don’t assume what I think or what my position is. I never assumed yours and it makes you look arrogant.

Please don't say you are not

So you already decided on what my position is huh?

because if somehow this happened and Bush was the president, you would be alongside with US, on THIS side, fighting yourself I guess.

I have ‘fought’ Bush whenever I believed he or his Administration had done something illegal, and I will continue to do so with whoever is President.

This is not a matter of personal preferences, it’s a matter of evidence. I believe many things about President Bush and his actions, and for most of them I don’t have any evidence that would hold up in a Court of law.

This obviously doesn’t prevent (or even demotivate) me from talking and debating about them, but it certainly doesn’t entitle me to think and act as if the Courts should hear my case because I demand them to.

My thoughts are these. If Obama is what he says he is, then why put the American public through all this? Why put his own supporters through this when many of them are also asking him to produce the birth certificate? Why spend so much money to keep THOSE WHO HIRED HIM from seeing the proof? He acts like he is the one in charge; not us! That's what we've had for the past 8 years! There are many in this country who don't get it! He works for us! All of us! It doesn't matter if you voted for McCain or Obama or timbuktoo! He works for all Americans! And if Americans are demanding to see the proof, he should do it! I hope the Supreme Court takes up at least one of these cases or it will NEVER die! I hope the electoral college has the courage to do the right thing which is what our founders intended for them to do. They are the last gate before a tidalwave can be let in. Sadly after everything I saw during this whole election, I fear they will not stand up for us. You know how you can watch a really really good thriller movie knowing there's going to be a moment of courage when everything works out in the end. I feel like this is a really exciting movie but will never end right; in fact the shame I feel at a country that has turned into what it has saddens me to no end. I didn't even celebrate July 4 this year because there really was no reason to. I'm beginning to feel as if everyone who died for this country died in vain.

How the hell does a President-Elect get into the position with the question of his eligibility based on a birth certificate still at large? This is precisely what makes America a laughing stock. We should just laugh at ourselves because we've become the dumbest nation on the planet and this just confirms how stupid we've become. I wonder what people from other countries think when they read this stuff. "Typical Americans, dumb as they are. They voted for someone who might not even be eligible to be the President." And this is only a mere highlight of our stupidity. First we had a stupid president. Now we're going to have an ineligible one, along with a broken economy, limited resources, and the dissolution of our government. After 232 years, look at all we've accomplished. A whole big stank of nothing! Congratulations America.

Thank you Mr. Marrs.

...'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,'

Jimmy Carter's most famous quote comes to mind...

Jimmy Carter, "Trust me, trust me!"

Originally posted by DarrylGalasso
I would even accept that; however, nothing is being shown or stated by the SCOTUS,

The Supreme Court only states something when it hears and decides on a case. Since no case has been accepted by the Supreme Court, it hasn’t ruled on this matter. They are not an investigation agency.

I am not trying to fight with you or anyone else in fact I agreed with you in my last post on credible citations; however, surely you must have some questions yourself. If you blindly believe what ANY agent of government says, why are you on ATS to begin with?

Of course I don’t blindly believe in every agency, just as much as I don’t blindly believe in everything that’s posted on the web.

What I do believe in though, is the law, and is exactly because of that that this should be done right.

You are assuming the Supreme Court (and other Courts) rejected the lawsuits because they are covering something up. What I’m saying is: look at the lawsuits, their legal arguments. I have, and frankly I found Mr. Berg’s lawsuit to be a joke for example.

I did however, found Mr. Donofrio’s case to have merit, and I’ve said numerous time before that I wanted the Supreme Court to hear it, so it could be settled once and for all.

But they didn’t. Since we don’t know why they didn’t hear it, I would firstly like to believe that it was because the case lacked some merit, or for some other legal technicality. I have no reason to believe a cover up. At least for now.

And I’m pretty confident that someone will file a serious well argued legal case which the Supreme Court will have no other way but to accept it and finally decide on something this important.

I just can’t expect the Courts to accept every case because I have some curiosity or doubt regarding Obama.

Originally posted by Mr Knowledge
How the hell does a President-Elect get into the position with the question of his eligibility based on a birth certificate still at large? This is precisely what makes America a laughing stock. We should just laugh at ourselves because we've become the dumbest nation on the planet and this just confirms how stupid we've become.

When I first started looking into this matter I also had this doubt. How in the hell could we get to this stage and no one checked if the people on the ballots could even be eligible?! After all if they were on the ballots there was a possibility that they might actually win...

This really frustrated me and made no sense. Surely there were rules in place to check this, I thought. But as far as I’ve been able to tell, it’s even more frustrating (and infuriating): there is no federal nation-wide law that demands this to be checked.

Yes this makes no sense, but apparently, a non-“natural born” citizen can run for Office, he just can’t be President (because of the Constitutional clause).

An example of this is Róger Calero, the candidate of the Socialist Workers Party. Calero was born in Nicaragua. He is a naturalized US citizen, just like Arnold Schwarzenegger is, and yet he was on the ballot in 5 states.

What I’m guessing is that some States, through perhaps the State's Secretary, do check or did check because in Calero’s case it was pretty obvious that he didn’t qualify.

But the fact that he was on the ballots in 5 states goes to show that there is no nation-wide law requiring them to check.

edit: spelling

[edit on 9-12-2008 by danx]

You are assuming the Supreme Court (and other Courts) rejected the lawsuits because they are covering something up. What I’m saying is: look at the lawsuits, their legal arguments. I have, and frankly I found Mr. Berg’s lawsuit to be a joke for example.

Not so long ago you asked another member:

Please don’t assume what I think or what my position is. I never assumed yours and it makes you look arrogant.

I am now asking you for that same courtesy.



[edit on 12/9/2008 by DarrylGalasso]

President-elect Barack Obama should present his Birth Certificate but it seems that it was presented to the officials already. How many president-elect birth certificates have you examined in all these years? That's what I thought. I like to think ahead and am now more understanding at where all this leads. You've never seen a president's birth certificate. I have never seen one and I still haven't seen one. So I will now take this time to bow my head in shame.

.
.
.

Ok.

Maybe it's being protected for good reason. What if it is tampered with and doctored by the opposition? Maybe an authentic copy has already been shown to the public. You know the one that is fake or part of "the" conspiracy. I don't find it that much of a problem. The man is a genius. He is the Ronald McDonald of our time. Over 600 billion served.



One more thing there is a reason why it is being held back. And it's because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!

Originally posted by jam321
Danx, got a question for ya.
Is no merit the same as having no standing?

No. Merit is when your claim has a valid basis, supported by facts and the right laws. While standing is whether the plaintiff has any interest or personal stake in the outcome. It means that just because you are citing all the right laws and have all the facts, doesn’t mean you are allowed to sue.

For example, in this case in particular, if John McCain had filed a lawsuit against Obama, and assuming he had presented all the facts that would support it, McCain would have both merit and more standing than anyone else, obviously.

This is why I’m telling people that just because the Courts are dismissing or refusing to hear the cases doesn’t mean there is a conspiracy. It might be for various reasons. They might have found the cases to be meritiless or that the plaintiff doesn’t have standing, or both.

When it comes to Mr. Berg’s case, having looked at his arguments, I found them to be meritless. Regarding Mr. Donofrio’s case I thought it had merit. but perhaps the SCOTUS ruled that Mr. Donofrio didn’t have standing to do so. We don’t know.

Anyway, as I’ve said before, I wish a good case comes along and the Supreme Court hears it, and not just because of this Obama situation in particular, but because I believe it is important that the Supreme Court addresses the definition of “natural born” citizen once and for all.

I mean, if it doesn’t get addressed, it’s only a matter of time that this will happen again.