Barack Obama Is Qualified To Be President... Isn't He? (by Jim Marrs)

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I said IF he isn't eligible, then it's important to know because of the laws of the Constitution.

And I told you what the laws were. The Constitution contemplates the possibility for the President elect to not qualify. If Obama is not eligible he simply doesn’t qualify. Until he becomes President he hasn’t violated any Article of the Constitution.

Perhaps YOU should get a clue.

I hope you didn’t get offended, after all I was only commenting on the fact that you said you didn’t know what the law was.

Cheers.

reply to post by bmxkeeler

Coming from Jim Marrs I'm surprised I read it. Didn't anyone see the copy of his birth certificate he had posted on his site?

It’s really too much of a reach to argue whether Obama was or was not born in Hawaii. His BC has been on the website for more than one year. He has the abbreviated BC commonly used today to deny anyone (too nosy) the particulars about the parents that are unnecessary to establish the birth of the subject of the certificate.

The only genuine issue in the recent presidential campaign was whether John McCain was constitutionally eligible to the office of president. His BC has also been posted on the internet. With it or without it we have always known John McCain was born in Panama. But there remains ONE issue. Was he “natural born” as required by the US Con? Or just an American citizen. See Note 1.

This fine distinction is frequently avoided by asserting HE is a citizen of the US without actually using the key words “natural born” as if there was NO distinction between the TWO categories. But there is a real difference. In the original document the terms - citizen and natural born citizen - are both used.

Article 1 is the legislative branch article. In section 2, and clause 2, members of the House must be age 25 and have been a citizen of the US for 7 years. This means any immigrant who obtains his citizenship can be a representative after 7 years.

In section 3, clause 2, members of the Senate must be age 30 and have been a citizen of the US for 9 years. Again, this means any immigrant to the US can be a senator if he obtains his citizenship and waits 9 years.

Now we come to the crux of this over-long story. Who can be the president of the US?

Article 2 is the executive branch article. This one is different from the first two. Let’s look at the part which is different. In section 1, clause 4, it opens with the plain words saying “NO person except a natural born citizen shall be eligible to the office of president.” further in the clause it also specifies age of 35 and 14 years a resident within the US. This means NO immigrant regardless of his obtaining citizenship can be president.

Did the framers of the Constitution mean to make the office of president special? Yes, no doubt about that. They wanted a guy who was BORN in the United States and no one else. This is the only office under the US Con that requires birth in the US.

And one more proof the writes knew the difference in 1787 and that nearly 80 yeas later nothing had changed. Look at the 14th Amendment. Section 1. All persons born OR NATURALIZED in the United States . . are citizens . . . “ Again, I left out the excess for this argument.

In John McCain’s case, the question is this: Is Panama the United States? And even a 5th grader knows the answer is NO!

References
Article 1. Section 2, Clause 2.
No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state in which he shall be chosen.

Article 1. Section 3, Clause 2
No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant of that state for which he shall be chosen.

Article 2. Section 1, Clause 4
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.


Note 1. The Congress has full power to make rules for citizenship as found in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4. “To establish a uniform rule of naturalization . .

Congress has rightly so, enacted laws making any person who is born of American citizens OUTSIDE the United States while they are serving the United States a citizen of the United States from the date of his or her birth.

Congress can make you a citizen, but only GOD can make you “natural born.”

[edit on 12/9/2008 by donwhite]

Look I'm no great fan of Obama but all of this is beyond absurd . If there is any dis info out there designed to distract people away from the real facts you are seeing it right here and now with the matter at hand . McCain was the candidate who would have an awful lot of trouble claiming that he is a US born citizen !

The title of this thread is misleading to begin with because qualified and eligibility do not mean the same thing . I would be disappointed in so many chasing after what is at best fiction made up by a bunch of crack pots if I hadn't seen this sort of thing before during my time as a member of ATS .

Originally posted by danx
If somehow someone has forgot to check that is he even a citizen, it didn’t start with the Presidential election and Dick Cheney must have egg on his face, since he sworn into office an illegal alien...

Dick Cheney has more than egg on his face. Try nuclear bombs with a few million people ready to push the button, if you ask me.

And so? Illegal aliens are hired everyday here, big whoop. Hell, I just posted a story which got near zero response that one of our own friggin border and homeland security chiefs got busted for hiring an illegal housekeeper, even giving her ADVICE on how to avoid immigration officials.

His true immigration status would be an easy thing to miss or be fooled by for all but the most intent of investigators, if any of this is true at all. So in my mind, this is ENTIRELY possible that he made it this far, again if the allegations are true. Worse things have been known to happen.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Dick Cheney has more than egg on his face. Try nuclear bombs with a few million people ready to push the button, if you ask me.

Touché! And I’m with you on that.

His true immigration status would be an easy thing to miss or be fooled by for all but the most intent of investigators, if any of this is true at all.

For a private person, perhaps, but a politician? For a Senator and now a President elect? I don’t know if it would be that easy to miss for someone with this high of a profile.

So in my mind, this is ENTIRELY possible that he made it this far, again if the allegations are true. Worse things have been known to happen.

Assuming Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii, then the system needs a major overhaul.

I’ve said before that something like this should be checked before the election. I don’t know if the FEC looks into the eligibility issue at all, but if they don’t, clearly, they or someone else, needs to.

Even if Obama is eligible, it’s just a matter of time for this to happen again.

If Obama isn’t a citizen then he isn’t qualified to be President, period.

However anyone who wants to protest against him while using the constitution as their defense better go out there and protest against President Bush right now. He is still our President; he is the one who has spat on our constitution for eight years. He is the war criminal. He is the one who worked with the Telecom Giants.

If you aren’t willing to protest him but will be outraged by Obama because of citizenship issues while half of his family are US citizens, including his deceased mother, then you are certainly not just motivated by the constitutional issues- so stop using that argument for your fuming shtick. I’m not buying it.

I find these kinds of threads interesting because you can really see what people want out of this country. Some want it to conform to what they want specifically, and some want to work within the bounds of the Constitution and furthermore uphold it.

I like the Constitution myself. I would venture to say that the people who are defending Obama's decision to not show these birth documents are uncaring of how the consitution is upheld, or if it is at all.

By now most of us are aware of the 'natural-born citizen' idea. It is constitutional law.

It is time to follow the law, lest it be rewritten.

If you catch my drift.

Originally posted by xpert11
McCain was the candidate who would have an awful lot of trouble claiming that he is a US born citizen !

Most people would assume that when you are born on a US Military Base that would equate to US Soil. I fully understand this has been debated before.

But the US Senate still voted on, and approved a resolution declaring him to be a Natural Born citizen making him eligible for POTUS.

No such 'Official' action has been taken regarding Obama, even after the SCOTUS conferenced on this issue on OUR dime. Posting a JPEG to some Internet sites doesn't quite equal a Senate Resolution in my mind.

I want to see some closure to this as badly as anyone else does. The way I see it, and the way Obama the lawyer should see it, is the fact that there is Reasonable Doubt regarding his status as a Natural Born citizen.

www.snopes.com...

A birth announcement for Barack Obama Jr. was also published in the Honolulu Advertiser on 13 August 1961, reporting a 4 August 1961 birth date for the child of Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama:

The unverbalised accusation here is that State of Hawaii Officials are either incompetent or criminal in asserting that Sen. Obama was born on U.S. soil.

If copies placed on blogger and other websites were fraudulent, I would think in this instance an inquiry from the State of Hawaii's Attorney General would be forthcoming. I believe it is reasonable to assume state officials are keeping tabs on press and internet coverage.

Gov. Lingle's order is, I presume, intended to ward off unrelenting press harassment of State Officials, current and former hospital employees as well as the signing physician (if he is still alive) and his family.

The only entity that has the long-form in its possession is the State of Hawaii.

Are they planning to lodge fraud charges against state officials?

"The Obama campaign's response is an elitist, condescending slap in the face to patriotic Americans. No one is above the law and Team Obama cannot make the question of Obama's eligibility go away by disrespecting the American people," he added.

Except for president Bush and the banks that control the world.

Originally posted by sos37

The fact is, two illegal 13 year old immigrants can parachute into America, give birth the moment they hit the ground, and that child is an American citizen.

I expect you have been hearing complaints for years about this fact.

So there is no problem about the son of an American citizen and a legal immigrant, born in Hawaii in 1961, being a natural born citizen, because he was a citizen the moment he popped out without needing any law to make him so.

That might be the law now, but what about back when Obama was born? Obviously it's changed with the passage of time.

So you didn’t actually read the threads that you say you did and that allegedly made you accuse me of being “an unrelenting left-winger”, did you?

Because if you had you would know the answer to that question, since me and others have addressed this numerous times.

In 1898, in the case US v. Wong Kim Ark the Supreme Court ruled that Wong Kim Ark, who was born in the US to two Chinese parents, was a US citizen at birth, and the federal Government couldn’t take away his citizenship, even though at the time there was legislation (Chinese Exclusion Act) that specifically prohibited persons of the Chinese race to become US citizens or even coming to the US.

So to answer your question, it has always been perceived that someone who is born in the United States (except children of diplomats), regardless of the nationality, citizenship or even legal status in the country of the parents, is a US citizen at birth.

It was like this in the 1800s, in 1961 and it is like this now.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by danx]

Originally posted by AboveTopSecret.com

"When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, 'This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything—you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
--- Robert A. Heinlein, If This Goes On, 1940

Hawaii only issues one type of birth certificate, and that is the Certificate of Live Birth which we have all seen posted. Obama's birth certificate states he is born in Hawaii, and the information on the COLB is obtained directly from the vault copy.

The pixilated blogger on Youtube calling himself Polarik is not a credible "document expert," as we know neither his name nor his credentials.

Or, perhaps George W. Bush was right when, according to several credible accounts, he described the Constitution of the United States as "just a goddamned piece of paper."

This is typical of the misleading and unsourced information found in Marrs' article.

No account of Bush saying this was credible. There was only one original account; a blogger with a reputation for making things up, who would not name any sources.
All the other references to this outrageous "quote" link back to this one thoroughly untrustworthy attention-seeker.

Brilliant, disturbing and absurd.

A question from the childless.

Do people normally publish a birth in a city/state newspaper where the child was not born -
ie: Hawaii?

[edit on 9-12-2008 by spinkyboo]

I'm having my german birth certificate sealed and then I'm running for president in 2012.

Don't ask me to prove I'm not a US citizen 'cause I've lived here for 53 years.

This makes as much sense as Obama not proving he qualifies to be POTUS

Originally posted by OrganizedChaos
Most people would assume that when you are born on a US Military Base that would equate to US Soil. I fully understand this has been debated before.

Yes, it has, and it has been demonstrated that US Military bases abroad are not part of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment. A person born on a Military base abroad does not acquire US citizenship by reason of birth.

But the US Senate still voted on, and approved a resolution declaring him to be a Natural Born citizen making him eligible for POTUS.

Are you talking about this Senate Resolution?

It’s a non-binding Resolution, it holds no legal value whatsoever. Furthermore, Congress can’t declare someone a “natural born” citizen.

I want to see some closure to this as badly as anyone else does. The way I see it, and the way Obama the lawyer should see it, is the fact that there is Reasonable Doubt regarding his status as a Natural Born citizen.

Obama the lawyer studied and taught Constitutional law. I suspect he knows what he’s doing.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by danx]

My response to the above poster...
"Obama the lawyer studied and taught Constitutional law. I suspect he knows what he’s doing."

That's why he sealed his records. If one has NOTHING to HIDE then why seal your history?

[edit on 9-12-2008 by Muundoggie]

The only reason I even read and responded to this was the fact it was authored by Jim Marrs. While I admire his grasp of the fact as presented I am disappointed with the subject matter. These threads are a dime a dozen and in my opinion are not based on any noble belief in the sanctity of the constitution but at best partisan bickering and at worst fear of someone that looks different than the posters (racism).

As my grandmother was fond of saying "Waste of time, but you're welcome to it."

Jim Marrs what was your motivation. Do you believe Obama is a feriner??

Troll alert!

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
If Obama isn’t a citizen then he isn’t qualified to be President, period.

Well that statement is flat out wrong .

Qualified means that a candidate has had experience in areas that will help him/her with what ever job they are applying for . Eligibility is a set criteria that someone has to meet regardless of there qualifications . For example candidate has to be over the age of 35 regardless of there qualifications such as executive experience they have .

Originally posted by OrganizedChaos
Most people would assume that when you are born on a US Military Base that would equate to US Soil. I fully understand this has been debated before.

Umm no I think that you would find that US embassies not US military bases are American soil .

But the US Senate still voted on, and approved a resolution declaring him to be a Natural Born citizen making him eligible for POTUS.

Now why in the world would have given Congress that kind of power that contradicts the eligibility criteria they set out ?
This is getting more ludicrous as we go along .

No such 'Official' action has been taken regarding Obama, even after the SCOTUS conferenced on this issue on OUR dime.

Any judge who understands the US constitution on what is presumable a school boy level would have thrown out McCain eligibility in about five minutes . Instead the courts time has been wasted by a bunch of crack pots .

Look I'm not what you would call call a natural born NZ citizen . I gained my NZ citizenship from one of my parents . Since I was born in Perth I was not born on NZ soil . McCain almost certainly gained his US citizenship from one of his parents otherwise he would be a permanent resident .

Americans tend have a deserved reputation for insular but I never took some of them as being this dumb .






[edit on 9-12-2008 by xpert11]

Originally posted by Muundoggie
I'm having my german birth certificate sealed and then I'm running for president in 2012.

Don't ask me to prove I'm not a US citizen 'cause I've lived here for 53 years.

This makes as much sense as Obama not proving he qualifies to be POTUS

How is that relevant to our discussion? Please, produce a certificate of live birth as Obama has and a newspaper announcement of your birth in the US. Then I may believe the two are even comparable. How do you think Obama managed the following? Do you think you could honestly do so? If this supposed conspiracy is a reality it has been going on since before or just after Obama was born. Highly unrealistic, unlikely, and there is certainly not enough evidence to counter what he has already releases. His documents so far have been completely legitimate. I don’t know why he won’t release the other document, but that does not prove anything that people in this thread are trying to claim.