Homes With No People, People With No Homes

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective

Homes With No People, People With No Homes

www.commondreams.org

Rameau is an activist who has been executing a bailout plan of his own around Miami's empty streets: He is helping homeless people illegally move into foreclosed homes.

I like it. Max's plan shows some pizzazz.

The government won't help anyone except the rich, so the people should help themsleves. It's what America is all about. Reach out and sieze your own piece of the American pie.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by In nothing we trust]

reply to post by micheshi


I do not trust my fellow man whether or not they are government or just the average citizen. Letting someone live in a home they do not own is stealing. If they live next door to you what is keeping them from stealing from you in any of the ways I have mentioned. If you want some thief living next to you great. I for one do not want someone who is a criminal living next door to my family flat out. When they start to trash the place or more rabble comes in and starts to hang out the neighborhood goes downhill. This is the mark of ghettos in the making.


The article can state he is only doing foreclosed homes and maybe he is (but I have yet to see proof). But what about the guy that sees this and thinks hey if they can do this why can I not do it this way. Again accepting criminal activity in one area leads to criminal activity in another area.

Raist

reply to post by rcwj75
You are a non empathetic person.

Some people have worked their whole life and had one "medical issue" or some other unforseen incident that has wiped them clean of everything they own.

Millions of people out of jobs, with no health insurance and the rich keep getting richer off the backs of everyone else.

You evidently never had really bad luck hit you.

Not everyone who is homeless is addicted and lazy. Many should be in metal institutions (but Regan / Republican) closed most of these down in the 80's.

Now days, many mentally and handicapped people (some veterans) are homeless.

WAKE UP and try to be a little understanding and kind.



[edit on 10-12-2008 by ofhumandescent]

I feel sorry for those that have genuinely been screwed over by the financial collapse but to those that took on more than they can chew I say lesson learned.

Don't worry about these empty homes. Thanks to all the China-Mart shoppers, the Chinese can afford to buy all them empty homes. Sell China part of the dying American dream to pay off all that national debt. And, as they migrate over here, unemployed Americans can immigrate to China to take those vacated iToy factory jobs. Wow, what a perfect win-win solution, eh?

reply to post by sc2099


You do not need to prove ownership of a dwelling to get the utilities turned on or phone. As long as the bill was paid up, they don't check.

reply to post by sc2099


Actually it isn't anyone's property. The banks do not offer anything valid as collateral for most mortgage agreements and homeowners have won cases against banks wishing to foreclose because of that fact.

Besides, who should have the home? A bank? A nebulous financial entity that isn't even human? Or a person who needs it?

How morally depraved must one be to side with the banks?

reply to post by k-string


The financial institutes got their money with the bailout. It does not make sense to leave a home empty while a family needs a home. I am not in favor of breaking laws, but I do see this as a step into something deeper. Perhaps the families that wre kicked out should reclaim their homes. Unfortunately, I heard that these homes in Miami were actually SECOND homes (aka vacation homes) that people could no longer afford and a mere handful were families primary residence.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
You are a non empathetic person.

Yes I am...and at the same time I am also willing to help those who TRULY need it. Not those who put on a show. Your KINDNESS..and my REALITY are where I can tell the difference. My line of work, my life experiance, and actually dealing with these situations is why I know for a FACT many, yes many of these situations are self inflicted. Just because I made the right choices in life and didn't jump on the social decay bandwagon doesn't mean I don't understand it.

Some people have worked their whole life and had one "medical issue" or some other unforseen incident that has wiped them clean of everything they own.

Millions of people out of jobs, with no health insurance and the rich keep getting richer off the backs of everyone else.

I agree...and thats why I am all for programs to help those (as I said above) WHO NEED IT!! If you show that your medical issue, or something to that affect is why your in such diar straights then hell yes..I am more then happy to use tax dollars to get you back on your feet. But as you know we just hand out money to lazy no good scum DAILY! We hand it out to liars, we hand it out to deadbeats, we hand it out to illegals, etc...and after awhile when you work your butt off, pay taxes, work overtime, sacrifice time away from home to pay your own bills when some screw off is just sitting back looking for handouts...you just say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

You evidently never had really bad luck hit you.

Well if by BAD LUCK you mean a major medical issue, then NO..thank god. But as I stated...in MY experiance with the MANY homeless I have to deal with it has NOTHING to do with medical anything. It has to do with drugs, alcohol, running away from home because parents were to strict, lose it all because you live outside your means to impress other idiots, etc...

Not everyone who is homeless is addicted and lazy. Many should be in metal institutions (but Regan / Republican) closed most of these down in the 80's.

Now days, many mentally and handicapped people (some veterans) are homeless.

True...not all are..but MOST are! And being a veteran I know all about homeless veterans...I also know why many are homeless, and you and many others wouldn't believe the reasons why if I or some other veteran who knew told you the truth.

WAKE UP and try to be a little understanding and kind.

Understanding...already am
Kind...I am when its warranted

bottom line is people like you who want to help everyone and have this "soft" spot for everyone will never open your doors to all these people. Whens the last time you invited one or two of them in for dinner? Offered your bathroom for a shower? Let them borrow your car so they could go somewhere? Why are you not being kind? I'll tell you why I don't...because I see first hand the lies and cons these people pull for handouts, and for free stuff, I see the choices they make. I have see them offered jobs at local car washes, lumber yards, etc....and they turn them down, yet complain they can't find work. Saw them skip meals and instead spent the $10 they got from passer by's on cigaretts, alcohol, or drugs....at some point YOU have to be responsible for YOU and your choices, actions, and decisions!

If you deserve it...and fall on tough times..I am all for helping anyway I can....thats that

RCW, your personal experience has twisted your perception. Even dead beats have rights but apparently you don't think they should have them. Because of you limited experience you cannot see the bigger picture. The one thing you don't understand is that not all men are equal and in an unequal world that causes the very problems that you claim to deal with. No one decides to be a criminal or a drug taker.

A chain of events occur that get the individual to that point, yes there are a tiny minority of people who don't want to conform to the norm but the 4k closures a day in the US are not made up of deadbeats or criminals. It is societies actions or lack of them that lead us to these points. In a well developed and stable society crime etc. is low in an unstable society crime and disorder is high.

The facts for these examples are there for all to see. So instead of attacking and blaming those at the bottom as you and others have been conditioned to do start looking up at those who causes these problems in the first place.

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by micheshi

 

I do not trust my fellow man whether or not they are government or just the average citizen. Letting someone live in a home they do not own is stealing. If they live next door to you what is keeping them from stealing from you in any of the ways I have mentioned. If you want some thief living next to you great. I for one do not want someone who is a criminal living next door to my family flat out. When they start to trash the place or more rabble comes in and starts to hang out the neighborhood goes downhill. This is the mark of ghettos in the making.

The article can state he is only doing foreclosed homes and maybe he is (but I have yet to see proof). But what about the guy that sees this and thinks hey if they can do this why can I not do it this way. Again accepting criminal activity in one area leads to criminal activity in another area.
Raist

ya, like accepting criminal activity in the area of government and banking/real estate has led to homeless people moving into repossessed homes (which, well, all this bailout money could have bought half the flipping mortgages in this country...we will all be paying soon for that, including these homeless people!)

he banks repo the houses, weather they are rental units or previously owner occupied. the people, who you can paint anyway you wish really. but there's people who were evicted out of their rental unit for this, their rent was paid up, there is no evidence whatsoever they did anything wrong. the had less time to move that those owner occupied owners get, so, maybe probably didn't have the time to find someplace to stash their stuff. they've lost their home, part of a month's rent, their security depostits, and well, quite possibly much of their personal belongings. and you blame them how?

if this is the same place that I heard about, law enforcement is refusing to act until the owners come and initiate the proceedure, since that is what the law demands.
only, try to find out who really owns the house you are living in! heck, you might be the owner of one of these houses and not know it. this is just a giant mess! loans can't be renegotiated without the owners okay, and.....squatters can't be evicted unless the owners initiate the proceedings.
ya, I know, even if you owned one of these homes and didn't know it, someone is collecting the rent for it, and they have successfully evicted the previous tennant. and they may have even listed it with a real estate company. but...the ones doing this are doing it for many, many houses. and well, if these people manage to stay in that home they are squatting in for so long, they will be the owners. and guess who has to deliver them notice that they have to leave......the owner!
the banks and such messed it up, they didn't properly record all these transactions as they occurred, and well......prove to me that the one griping is the owner or a representive of them and well...then I will move!

otherwise, well, sorry, but cheer up!! that nice trillion or so dollar bailout was meant to offset the loss anyway, and well....got a feeling that my share of that by the time it's done will be way more than what I own on any real estate!

I bet the system is in such a mess, most of these homes will be sold by the community for unpaid sales tax. the thing to do would be start up investment groups in your community, pool the money together and well, buy them back then when they are going for half cents on the dollar.
it's gonna take a long time to straighten this out, and well.....it takes time for these repod houses to be turned around. longer the worse it gets. maybe some will change thier tune as to what this guy is doing when half of the homes and apts are vacant, boarded up, and they are wandering the streets along with all the other previous occupants with no place to live.






[edit on 11-12-2008 by dawnstar]

[edit on 11-12-2008 by dawnstar]

People who keep looking down their noses and judging these folks havent had the misfortune to have to walk a mile in their shoes...YET.


These arent drug and alcohol addicted bums or mentally ill people, most of the homeless these days are middle and lower income people who had a home but lost it due to hardship, illness, loss of job, or simply had their backs broken by all of the constant and mounting fees and charges and bills that add up so quickly.

You get sick, you end up in the hospital for a week or two, you lose your job, you have no health insurance, and just like that you are unemployed and $20,000 in the hole...instantly.

Those of you who are judging these people claim to be proponants of helping the working and middle class, well here they are. Your neighbors, your co-workers, the people you thought could never end up on the streets are now living on the streets. It is easy to point your finger and spit upon these folks while you sit in your warm house or apartment with a full stomach and a warm shower.

If you think just because you are ok now that you wont feel the effects of this stagnant and sinking economy down the road you had better wise up and think again. What will you say when it hits your home? What will you do when the job is gone, the mortgage is late and the cupboard is bare?

Welcome to the new America...this isnt a reality show or a game...it is real life decent folks being put into serious and desperate situations. And for all of you Christian types who thump your bible and cast your judgement upon the less fortunate ones...remember judge not less yee be judged.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
RCW, your personal experience has twisted your perception.

7 Years in law enforcement...there is no perception anymore..only facts. The only perception is people who read newspapers and listen to the news and THINK they know whats actually going on yet have NEVER dealt with it in person..not even once!

Even dead beats have rights but apparently you don't think they should have them.

They do have rights...but getting handouts and free stuff and NOT having to work for it like the rest of us because they are lazy, or refuse to do their share...then yes your right...they don't deserve them. Tell you what I'll quite my job and you just mail me $800 a month while I sit back and let you do all the work...you willing?

Because of you limited experience you cannot see the bigger picture. The one thing you don't understand is that not all men are equal and in an unequal world that causes the very problems that you claim to deal with. No one decides to be a criminal or a drug taker.

WOW...your kidding right. No one decides to be a criminal or drug taker. Hmmmm so in your world people are FORCED to get high, buy crack, coc aine, heroin, pcp, lsd, pot, ice, meth, etc....people are held down and beatin and told to take these drugs and become addicts. People are told to take every last scent they have and spend it on an addiction THEY chose. I am so sick of people treating alcoholism and drug addiction like its a common cold and something you catch...its a choice..a choice made by YOU the individual....When I was in college I was at parties where there was coke, pot, meth, alcohol etc...and guess what I said no...wow..so hard..so tough. When I lost my first job to layoffs I didn't find the answer in a bottle, in a baggie or look for handouts...I applied elsewhere and found a crappy job until I could get what I wanted.

A chain of events occur that get the individual to that point, yes there are a tiny minority of people who don't want to conform to the norm but the 4k closures a day in the US are not made up of deadbeats or criminals. It is societies actions or lack of them that lead us to these points. In a well developed and stable society crime etc. is low in an unstable society crime and disorder is high.

Agreed....and that stems back to the originally argument. Don't live outside your means, have some common sense to know that if times get tough you saved and were smart with your money, you didn't blow it on societies COOL stuff like drugs, alcohol, expensive clothing, etc...you instead thought things through and took care of YOURSELF and your family...

The facts for these examples are there for all to see. So instead of attacking and blaming those at the bottom as you and others have been conditioned to do start looking up at those who causes these problems in the first place.

I will agree many problems start with the top (i.e. big business) and their greed. But along with that WE as a society have become greedy as well and its costing us. Huge Homes, not because we need them but others will think we are rich or someone important....SUV gas guzzlers...not because they are needed, since 99% of them never even see dirt, but because its a social stigma that if you drive an escalade or an expadition your automatically "successful"....Material BS like 5 carrot diamond rings, because the bigger the ring the better the marriage and proof of love right? ....clothing from stores only celebraties can afford, but you gotta have it too because god knows if "SO and SO" is wearing it or is seen with it WE have to have it too....

We live in a society that views people who shop at walmart as trailer trash, and those who eat at cheap steak houses as redneck, or if they drink out of plastic cups their ghetto, etc..just watch the crap on TV..."real housewives of atlanta, new york, orange county" or better yet, "sweet 16" on MTV and plenty of other trashy shows....WE as americans have decided that material things, social status, fame, and fortune were more important then family, love, morals, etc...and look where we are now.....so yes we have fallen on tough times...but maybe its needed...now maybe people will go back to understanding whats IMPORTANT...

EDIT TO ADD: I hate our government and their bailout plan. These companies should have failed and gone belly up for their greed. They were foolish with their success and it cost them..so yeah..they shouldnt have been helped.....hell in my book every TAX PAYING citizen..remember TAX PAYING citizen should get a stimulas check for $500,000 bucks...the state of the economy would turn around over night...morgages paied off, loans paid off...companies getting their money, companies making money because people are spending..etc...but until then..I make the best out of what I got and what I get...

[edit on 12/11/2008 by rcwj75]

RCW, As, you don't know anything about me or what I do I can cut you a bit of slack.

No one is arguing that those who could work should not do so. And it is too simplistic to state that people make choices/mistakes and therefore should suffer the consequences. No one usually whitingly makes the wrong choice, a person who enters the armed forces do not intend to come out of it a human wreck.

People can fall on hard times for many reasons most of wish can be bad luck, bad planning or ill health but very few wish to be in that position. yet once in the gutter it is very difficult to get out of it. The perps who run the show want things a certain way and ensure thats the way it is. Couple that to a class or fuedal system of wealth then inequality follows. People who have worked hard all their lives who stayed within their means are not protected from the deads and actions of the perps.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
RCW, As, you don't know anything about me or what I do I can cut you a bit of slack.

You must not be feeling well... lol..

People who have worked hard all their lives who stayed within their means are not protected from the deads and actions of the perps.

I agree 100% with that. And as I said before I am more then willing to give back and help those in need WHO NEED IT. I have...and still do..BUT just like me not knowing you, you don't know me..and the things I see and deal with DO NOT boad well for the people in these positions. In my experiance it really has been due to everything but true hardship. And when you see that EVERYDAY..and hear them make excuses EVERYDAY...after while...your just done with it.

Originally posted by rcwj75
We hand it out to liars, we hand it out to deadbeats, we hand it out to illegals, etc...and after awhile when you work your butt off, pay taxes, work overtime, sacrifice time away from home to pay your own bills when some screw off is just sitting back looking for handouts...you just say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

You do realise that whatever amount is dedicated to wellfare and social programs are literally dwarfed by the amount we spend on politicians, bankers, and all the other cogs in the worldwide web of corruption?

I for one rather have my money go to people who usually nééd it then those who claim the sky will fall down if we don't submit to their extortionism..

True...not all are..but MOST are! And being a veteran I know all about homeless veterans...I also know why many are homeless, and you and many others wouldn't believe the reasons why if I or some other veteran who knew told you the truth.

The thruth, like those banks 'loaning' you your paycheck you're expected to earn while in the service, at interest rates up to 380% ? What a great service to the servicemen, neh? (I think I saw it in a docu called 'in debt we trust', availlable on video.abovetopsecret.com for free)

Or the thruth like the soldiers coming home suffering from DU-poisoning and other service-related trauma's who don't have the physical ability to work anymore?

There will be people in the service who have become drunks and addicts, sure. Maybe, if I had seen what they had and experienced what they had, I might be, as well. And when they return, they have to fight tooth and nail even to get recognised as a victim, while all they had is gone allready.

I recognise there will allways be bad apples, but I do not feel the need to throw away the basket.

I hope I never grow that callous.

[edit on 11-12-2008 by Phatcat]

reply to post by WyrdeOne



You are being fooled to think that allowing/accepting criminal activity in one area will not bring about the acceptance of it in other areas.

You say that some or even many might do other criminal activity but the cops will be called if they do. Who is going to call the cops in neighborhoods that have been emptied? Who will call the cops if the only neighbor that was there legally gets invaded?

You make it seem as if all of these homes are one per neighborhood with that thinking. There might be a few but most neighborhoods where the bank took over are neighborhoods that have many empty houses. These houses that are empty and then filled breed crime. I drive past homes that a few years ago were nice and now have become a pool for criminal activity. Neighborhoods around here have gotten ten times worse in just three years. I hear about another shooting and more drugs on a daily basis. People accepted the minor crimes and the major crimes grew from that, they always will. Someone says well they are doing it and nothing is happening so I might as well do it too.

If you are so concerned open up your home to these people go out and put up signs with your address as a place they can come for refuge. If they are truly as innocent as you think they are you and your family will be fine. You might be lucky and get a few that are really decent people out on their luck. But I would bet that you get more criminals than anything else.

reply to post by dawnstar



I am not sure exactly what you are going on about. But yes accepting some criminal activity is what has caused a criminal government that has caused the financial crises if that is what you are asking me. By saying okay I will vote for the least of the two evils you are saying that their criminal activity is okay. By saying well their criminal activity is okay you show others in society that criminal activity is okay.

As for the rest of your post the best I can make out to answer your post is to say this. If they are someone who really did get a bum deal like being a renter that got foreclosed on I agree they need help actually let them move back in and rent to own from the bank or whatever. Just let them have their house back. If they lost their house because they lost their job for reasons not their own let them have a house. For those who really need help and can prove their situation I agree they need help to get back on their feet and I will gladly pay taxes to help these people or help in another way.

If they are the type who signed a loan knowing the risks of the variable or knowing they really could never afford the home, well sorry they need to find a place they can afford. If they lost their home because they lost their job because of drugs or alcohol let them get fixed and then let them find a job and a home they can afford. If they are in their spot because of their own choices then they need to do what they can to fix those choices. I made plenty of bad choices when I was young, I messed up a lot. But I turned things around, I fixed my past mistakes. I took responsibility for my own actions which is all I ask that others do. Once you take responsibility for your own actions you can fix things. It might take time and you might have to work some really low paying crappy jobs to get there but you can turn things around. When you start at a crappy job start putting in applications in other places until you get a better one, you might need to do this multiple times though. As for jobs I still see them in the newspaper. I know someone personally who refused to work at “McDonalds” as he put it because it did not pay enough. Well guess what some pay is better than none, but people for the most part are lazy and believe they deserve the best right now without working for it, they are wrong. If you want respect, or things, or whatever, you need to earn it.

I’ll offer you the same as I did the other poster. If you are so willing to help go post signs with your address in the places the homeless hang out. See how many criminals you get and how few decent people you get. I bet you see a large number of criminals knocking at your door. If all works out well you and your family will remain safe physically.

Raist

reply to post by Raist

Originally posted by BlackOps719
People who keep looking down their noses and judging these folks havent had the misfortune to have to walk a mile in their shoes...YET.

Regardless how bad thing ever got for me, I doubt very much I would revert to criminal behavior as the solution. Some people may think it okay to steal what they don't have and need, I do not. Theft would only bring me more bad luck, something I wouldn't need more of in such a situation. There is no excuse for theft, not even hunger or homelessness. Maybe such lack of morals is what is keeping some of these people from succeeding on their own.