Christians need to face the facts!

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posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Truth is about understanding. It's not about accepting a certain group of words as truth, it is about understanding why that certain group of words speaks truth.

There is absolute truth, but it can never be expressed in just words. The words themselves can never be the absolute truth. Only the understanding behind the words is the absolute truth. So you can speak the truth all day long, without understanding it is not the absolute truth, and as we can not give everyone understanding, it is not the absolute truth because not everyone can gain understanding from those words. But for those who can find understanding in those words, they will be able to see the absolute truth in what is said.

The truth is not bound to specific words, many things can be used and said to express that truth. But the understandings under it are the real deal.

On this particular topic, I do believe god is inside. God is not external, he is inside. Where you can go wrong and get caught up in "self" is if you think that he is only inside you personally, and not in everyone else. In which case, you would be turning your back on god for the small piece that created you. Just as Jesus recognized that bit of god inside himself, and then was able to let it flow through.

And for those who say otherwise, can you please explain John 14:20?

Also, when it comes to removing the mote for your eye. Sorry, but justamomma is right. Once you have removed the mote from your eye, you should be able to remove it from theirs. And you do that by giving them understanding, not by saying "I am right, deal with it". To say you are right and to deal with it and provide no understanding is to keep the mote in your eye, as then you just have 2 people with motes in their eyes screaming I am right, and providing no understanding.




posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
reply to post by justamomma
 
I apologize for assumptions I made of your beliefs. I am truly sorry that I jumped the gun, that was wrong of me to do so.

I take interests in some of what you said pretaining to the differences in the OT and the NT.

I do find it so ironic though...we have some very spiritual people discussing in this topic, they all feel (including I ) that they have found a understanding of 'what God is and what God wants'. Each path might be unique in what that soul needs to gain from this life here. I am not going to be quick to judge and say anyone is truly 'wrong' but yet, I believe each comes to an understanding that helps their soul find peace and progress in growth.

Peace,
LV


Well, part of what shows our ego comes via the assumptions we make and I have made more than I would like to admit. The apologies should be made to G-d when we assume we should interpret what G-d has said... not to me.

The difference between what I am saying and what the OP is saying is that mine is based ONLY on what G-d has said. I make no interpretations, but am rather just repeating what He has said and saying I believe it regardless of whether anyone else believes it or not.

The interpretations are based on ego. The point is, the interpretations are given because man didn't want to believe that G-d meant what He said and that there must be some other meaning. Rather than submitting to His instructions, we make up our own. HOW much MORE egotistical can we be than to say that G-d needs US to interpret what He said.

This is the ONLY way to decipher His Truth from man's self centered "self god" deceptions. *I* don't have the Truth in me, but I accept the Truth as it is laid out by the G-d of Moses. To me, anyone can argue and it is no sweat off my back. I do feel EXTEME sadness for the rejection of G-d because I see His mercy, but I understand that He alone possessess that perfect balance of mercy and justice. I lean not unto MY understanding anymore, but rather I trust Him and His words fiercely!!! How could I not when He answered the questions I had with His words and NOT mans?

I have offered out G-d's words over and over to SHOW you that this is NOT MY interpretation; this is NOT MY message and I gain nothing nor do I lose anything if ppl don't believe me... these are G-D's words. You do as He commands and turn to Him and NO OTHER. YOU can not do this through yourself. YOU do not know HIS thoughts nor do YOU have ANY understanding save what He has allowed you to have. If you are confused and feel you need to find the "hidden" meanings, G-d has given you over to your understanding because that is what YOU want.

Man can NOT interpret G-d period. There is no hidden meaning in His words. It is cut and dry. When it feels hidden, YOU have been allowed by Him to follow after self for the time being.

He is, has, and will be; and we "are" only because He has allowed us to be, thus showing His mercy. He is your Saviour and there is no other... you only *think* there is because that is what you want; whether it is a another man or yourself... if you are still alive, search what G-d said and not what man has said. Thus, the New serves its purpose as intended.


Remember, lean NOT unto YOUR OWN understanding. Trust G-d with ALL your heart. When you do, you no longer need the interpretations. I DO however get mad, such as at the OP, for thinking they can interpret G-d as though they were G-d. That is sick and wrong! G-d can interpret Himself and the only ppl who don't see that are the ones who don't want to.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia On this particular topic, I do believe god is inside. God is not external, he is inside. Where you can go wrong and get caught up in "self" is if you think that he is only inside you personally, and not in everyone else. In which case, you would be turning your back on god for the small piece that created you. Just as Jesus recognized that bit of god inside himself, and then was able to let it flow through.



Where does G-d say that He is in us? He says that He is WITH us, but I am hard pressed to find where He tells us that He is in us. We are *made* in His image. Are YOU in the image that stares back at you in the mirror? One place where *G-D* says Himself that He is in us is all I ask, please.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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I have never disregarding 'Gods word' because I didnt like something that was written or because I couldn't find wisdom or understanding in it. When I sought guidance from the Spirit....I was lead down a path. It was not MY path, it was what the spirit needed from me for Thee's will. I dont claim beliefs because they are easier for me to accept....this road I follow has been one of the toughest things for me to do. The humbleness the spirit had me work on was intense and was not of my will....it was the will of Thee. The more I followed, the more I saw, this was a path of no return.

Ive handed my life over to Thee...I asked Thee to work through me and for ONLY Thees will...not mine. I have no will but what Thee needs and has planned.

To claim one 'makes things up' just because they cant deal with the REAL teachings is absurd to me. The angels have shown me things, Christ has shown me things...The Holy Spirit is what fills my being. I know longer do my will...I do the will of Thee. Thee has shown me there is a bigger picture and Thee will work through many. We are worthy. This I know, and all are worthy...and only God knows if one comes to Thee for the right reasons or selfish reasons.

All the more so, since you follow the God in the OT.....I could say the same as you say to me....how lost and misunderstood your view is.

The spirit does show me that the God in the OT didnt kill babies in Egypt and also was not the one who brought the flood ridding of people. Also was not the Most High who instructed the hebrews to claim a land that was not theirs. The Most High will never work through seperateing mankind int o a chosen specail land.

Thee's temple is man. Thee can only dwell in a temple of life...not of material. The God of Moses was prideful, greedy and lost hope in many people...with his command(against his law) he orderd man to kill thousands of people in the name of God. This is what the Spirit has guided me away from. This was not the Most High who did those things. The prince of this material world was.

Serperating man and making man believe that there is a chosen land and a chosen people is against what God is. God teaches unity. I know this because through the Spirit....this is what I am shown. I dont need agreement from anyone...but I know I will awaken some...this is why my path is always forward, Thee let me know right away...to take this path means action, to take this path means I must stand sure footed.

The path of the peacekeepers is not a light path with no burden. Its not a path that one needs gratification from others. Its not a path that leads me to be full of myself...there is no ME....there is only I AM> \

Its been interesting, this convo...thanks for the time and insights to all and from all.

Peace,
LV



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


I have never claimed God is only inside me 'personally'.

The ability to see this is in ever single soul.

I only share my experience of how I have come to KNOW Thee and to know we are all worthy of seeking within. To seek within and to find the nature of Thee is for all, not just one person. I encourage other to seek within and listen to what the spirit has to show you, what the will of God can do if you allow yourself to be an instrument to Thee.

The only reason I speak up in these forums is to let all know...they are worthy. This is one of the main teachings the spirit laid on me heavily. There was no doubt that the spirit showed me, Thee is within and will shine...if you humble yourself that it is not about the 'you' its about the will of God within you. Letting that will shine and not your own will. I went through much ridding of the 'self'...there is no self in me except the I AM.

Peace,
LV



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo To claim one 'makes things up' just because they cant deal with the REAL teachings is absurd to me. The angels have shown me things, Christ has shown me things...The Holy Spirit is what fills my being. I know longer do my will...I do the will of Thee. Thee has shown me there is a bigger picture and Thee will work through many. We are worthy. This I know, and all are worthy...and only God knows if one comes to Thee for the right reasons or selfish reasons.

All the more so, since you follow the God in the OT.....I could say the same as you say to me....how lost and misunderstood your view is.


Support any of this with Scripture? We are told to test spirits with G-d's word, so I would like to see that you have done so.

And funny that you would say I'm misunderstanding when what I have said is merely a repeat of what G-d said, the G-d of the Bible. You say "since you follow the G-d in the OT" ... does this mean that you have found another god? hmmm.. who *is* this god? There *is* only one G-d and even the New testifies to this fact, but the ego can't see this and thus, as Jesus said, it will divide those who believe in the one and only true G-d, our Saviour from those who would rather trust their salvation to their own hands or the hands of a man; thus is the brilliance of our Creator.
He DOES want to know your heart and had turned that perversion of the Truth into something that will seperate those who seek Him from those who seek self.


Edited to say: Those living for death will die by their own hand. There is no blame on me and there is no blame on your Creator, the One you obviously have rejected. It's your choice. You can leave it in the hands of those spirits speaking to you and you will, indeed, die by your own hand.


[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:33 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 



There is also the adversary which lives in mans ego. I do believe the Old Serpent is the one that led those teachings of separation and killings. I have no doubt that this was the Serpent that is in the minds of man....

You know a vine by its seed....the vine in the OT is not the seed of Thee Most High...like I said, my path is solid, more then its ever been. I accepted the OT for YRS. Word for word...I accepted it. I received no growth from it. I do believe the OT is what is misleading the masses. That Old Serpent has long been at work and can also claim himself as God. God does not loose hope in anyone nor strikes them down for not coming to him on his command. Thee is not forceful...that is why this process of mankind evolving is sooo long. Its not by force...its through patience Thee waits us to seek with a pure heart. We can offer our lives to Thee...but Thee does not want us to come out of fear or force.

LV



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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I dont seek 'self'...my self is I AM.

Ive enjoyed the convo, but its late and Im sure Ill regret staying up late in the morning when I need to wake kidos up for school.

Im out for now...catch up with you all another day...

Peace to all,
LV



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


The "Thee" that you are using is merely a metaphor for "us"... I am not blind and reject the meaning of "Thee." I put my trust in G-d and not the god you call "Thee." That is deception and just another way to say that we are gods. You still have shown me NO Scripture that anything you have said is of G-d.

Edited to add: I am with you on the staying up late and needing to get in bed. I have however enjoyed this because it is in these conversations that my faith in Him is solidified since I look up these things you all say and always find the opposite things found in what He says. It IS about Him and not about the "Thee" or us. "I Am. That I Am" is not meant to be interpreted as us. This is obvious in other things He says. I doubt many of you have even bothered in reading the Old Testament wholly. In fact, I am QUITE confident as is evidenced in your posts. But anyway... if you wanted to know, you would know. So, I leave you to revel in what you want to see.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


Sorry, I wasn't accusing you, just stating my opinion on the topic. I agree with you and was just trying to say why I agree.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by justamomma
 


It's a matter of persceptive. Evidence that god is inside us is all over. John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you". It doesn't say that is when he "enters you", that is the day when you find out he is inside you.

Consciousness is not of this universe. This universe is all about action and reaction. You do not get consciousness out of action and reaction. It doesn't happen, I've worked on the logic behind doing such a thing - which is one of the things that made me realize this truth and got me to knock.

Why is breaking a commandment a sin against God and not just sins against other people? Because God is inside that other person.

Why is the body a temple of god? Because god is inside the temple.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 02:13 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


Yeah, I guess that all depends on if you subscribe to the "self" that is seen in the NT or the G-d of the Old Testament. What I see is the supposed words of a man. The only thing I see of G-d in the NT is the way it is set up to divide those who would worship self over Him. This very thread is evidence that many search for their interpretations and reject the G-d of the Old Testament.... who IS the only G-d. You are *of* Him and the soul is merely a "point" of communication that can only exist when one walks in His ways. IT *is* there, clear as day that what I speak is not my truth, but His Truth. He is not IN us and He is only WITH us should we choose Him over self.



[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by justamomma
Yeah, I guess that all depends on if you subscribe to the "self" that is seen in the NT or the G-d of the Old Testament. What I see is the supposed words of a man. The only thing I see of G-d in the NT is the way it is set up to divide those who would worship self over Him. This very thread is evidence that many search for their interpretations and reject the G-d of the Old Testament.... who IS the only G-d. You are *of* Him and the soul is merely a "point" of communication that can only exist when one walks in His ways. IT *is* there, clear as day that what I speak is not my truth, but His Truth. He is not IN us and He is only WITH us should we choose Him over self.


I disagree. God is inside me. God is my consciousness. God is that part of me that is I AM. I can logically create everything about intelligence except 1 thing. Consciousness and that knowing what it means to "be". I think, therefore I am. It is nothing more than an illusion of intelligence, and not true intelligence. The only true intelligence in this existance is and always will come from God. You can not program consciousness, you can not get consciousness from a universe based on action and reaction. It is eternal, and can not be destroyed, it can only return to source or have it's perception limited. The only one with free will is God, and it is also the spark of God inside us that gives us our free will - another requirement for intelligence.

God is the sum of all consciousness, both past and present all over the universe(all knowing). It is impossible for us to see the entirity of god, as to do so would completely destroy us - you've probably heard this before, now hear why. It would destroy you because if you were to see all of god at once your limited perspective would be lost. It is something none of us could ever handle. If you did so, you would lose all sense of your individual self as the perspective is changed.

If I say the ocean is a whole bunch of little drops of water, then that is true. If I say a single water drop is part of the ocean, then that is true. Only if I try to claim the single water drop is the entire ocean do I tell a lie.







[edit on 9-12-2008 by badmedia]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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If I am not mistaken Justamomma does not believe in Jesus Christ and the NT.
Is that right ? ....Are you a Orthodox Jew ?



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by badmedia
 


You can disagree with *me* all you want and this matters little to me. It should just be made clear though that G-d does not make this claim. Again, He says He will be WITH of us if we cling to Him with all of our hearts, but that does NOT equate to "He is *in* our hearts." It becomes less confusing when you start reading what HE said rather than basing everything on what a man interprets Him to be saying, even if that man is in the NT.




[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 08:43 AM
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You see this is where I see that you (Justamomma and Leo) are missing out on the PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with GOD ....through CHRIST >.

Leo calls him thee (so impersonal) and Momma calls him G..d (impersonal)...it is as if God is unreachable and impersonal to both of you .
This is just not so ,...that was why CHRIST came to connect us PERSONALLY with the Lord GOD ..through him ...we can come boldy before the throne of GRACE through Christ and have a one on one with GOD the father ..

And Momma ...he wont be within you ,...if you have not allowed him in ..that is for sure ....
He comes WITHIN when you allow CHRIST within ...then he works from within you ..not just outside of you ..



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:05 AM
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Originally posted by badmedia God is the sum of all consciousness, both past and present all over the universe(all knowing). It is impossible for us to see the entirity of god, as to do so would completely destroy us - you've probably heard this before, now hear why. It would destroy you because if you were to see all of god at once your limited perspective would be lost. It is something none of us could ever handle. If you did so, you would lose all sense of your individual self as the perspective is changed.

If I say the ocean is a whole bunch of little drops of water, then that is true. If I say a single water drop is part of the ocean, then that is true. Only if I try to claim the single water drop is the entire ocean do I tell a lie.
[edit on 9-12-2008 by badmedia]


The first part, can you give me the references that have led you to say "It would destroy you because if you were see all of G-d at once..." because this is not found in the Old Testament and in fact, it says something quite different.

"If you did so, you would lose all sense of your individual self as the perspective is changed." You have clinged to something that G-d did not lay out at all.. This is part of a man made religion that worships the god of self. You will have a hard time finding verses IN CONTEXT that will support such imaginings.

What you have said, in essence, as is evidenced by your example is that we (our perpectives) make up G-d. You are wrong. Every single human being that has ever been, is now, and will be on this earth could be erased from existence and G-d, the true G-d, our Creator, would STILL exist. He was, He is, and He will be. YOU "are" but this is only because He has let you be for now. That big ocean you are saying is G-d is NOT G-d, but IS mankind as a whole.... but no suprise it would be referred to as god since that is man's favorite past time. Worship of self, the ego, MAN.

We are seperate from G-d and it is said specifically that only the upright can walk in His presence. God is Holy and Righteous and THAT my friend, is why man cannot see Him in all of His glory; because man is far from righteous and holy.

That is why man has turned to saying that "god is in us" thus trying to eliminate G-d from the picture. But how does one eliminate its source?? You breathe because He lets you. You speak because He lets you. YOu are alive because He allows you to be. You just don't realize the impact on your life because you are right with "self" and that is good enough in your eyes.

Psalm 140:
1Deliver me, O LORD, from the evil man: preserve me from the violent man;

2Which imagine mischiefs in their heart; continually are they gathered together for war.

3They have sharpened their tongues like a serpent; adders' poison is under their lips. Selah.

4Keep me, O LORD, from the hands of the wicked; preserve me from the violent man; who have purposed to overthrow my goings.

5The proud have hid a snare for me, and cords; they have spread a net by the wayside; they have set gins for me. Selah.

6I said unto the LORD, Thou art my God: hear the voice of my supplications, O LORD.

7O GOD the Lord, the strength of my salvation, thou hast covered my head in the day of battle.

8Grant not, O LORD, the desires of the wicked: further not his wicked device; lest they exalt themselves. Selah.

9As for the head of those that compass me about, let the mischief of their own lips cover them.

Read that last verse, think about what you said, and then, if you WANT to know, you will go to read what G-d said and forsake what makes you *think* you are "right with G-d." You are only right with god.

Again, the difference between what I am saying from what most of you on this thread are saying is that I do not "assume" or trust a man's interpretation, even if it is my own. Our hearts are SO deceptive that we don't even realize that we are elevating ourselves instead of giving our Creator His rightful place as the only true G-d. I don't trust your words for in them, I see a god that exists only so long as man exists. I DO trust the words of G-d; and the foundation He has laid with those words is a solid foundation that needs not our interpretations. Foolish pride.....

[edit on 9-12-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:11 AM
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I dont think I 'invented' the idea that "THEE" as a term to associate to God.

To me, calling Thee 'God' has been polluted by many, I find it more respectful to say Thee.

No one could prove any time that when I use the tern Thee that I refer to a 'us' of 'me'. I dont refer to myself as 'Thee'...but as a part of 'Thee'. If you go back to any posts of mine and try to replace my term 'Thee' with the word 'us' as that was assumed is how I am using this term, it will not work, it will not fit.

Psalm 199 verse 10
With my while heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
verse 11
Thy word have I hid in my heart, that I might not sin against thee.


The only difference in my use of 'thee' is that I capitalize it.

I do come through Christ...just not under the same understandings as most. Christ has brought me to my knees many times over. Christ is the one that showed me the angels were waiting for me and all of us. Christ is the one that helped me know I was worthy...just as he was worthy. By learning through Christ...this is why I am where I am today. The understanding that God did not require Christ to die....this was only the effect from the cause of man doing a unjust act...and Christ being righteous..the highest embodiment of God, had to remain righteous...the only choice Christ had was to not fight man and showed mankind what remaining righteous meant. So Christ made a offering of his flesh...for us to learn how to turn the other cheek truly.

So many say they walk Christ path....but so many also will not remain righteous when they have the choice of 'fighting' or 'giving'. Christ got tied to the OT of wars and prophetic separation of mankind. Now everyone awaits for his return to 'fix' things he didn't fix the first time. He showed us what we are to do. He showed us war was not the way. He showed us....now we can do just as he did...to go out amongst others and act in righteous ways...through love, mercy, peace and grace.

As always, just personal thoughts,
LV



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:19 AM
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Im going to speak for badmedia becaue I KNOW he did not ever state that God is ONLY mankind as a whole and without us, God would not be.

Its not right to take something out of context and twist it because you dont understand it.



posted on Dec, 9 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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So many extremes here ..
One is absorbed in a godself mentality..and the other is absorbed in God is unreachable.

We are not gods ..we have god within *Through Christ Jesus ....that does not make us god ..it makes us one with God .....it gives us the heart of God ..it helps us relate with God ....it gives us a personal one on one with God where we can know the heart of GOD and what he requires of us ..(which is not much but to LOVE HIM and if we love him we will OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS and we will LOVE OTHERS as we love God and ourselves) ......(through the Holy Spirit of God sent by Christ Jesus ) .....he teaches us what PERFECT LOVE IS .....
He is outside of us ..but with Christ he is now within us ...and as he is within us we are now also within him ..thereby we can KNOW HIM NOW as he is ...and we can be like him ..but not be him .....just understand his heart ...his way ...his understanding (which is so not like our understanding of things)


I hope that made sense .....it is really difficult to explain that if one has no idea what it means to KNOW HIM >.personally .....

Some of you are outside of him trying to know him by knowing yourselves .(this cannot be done because we are in his image but we are also in the image of the world ..(earthly) and cannot even comprehend spiritual which is what God is ...only through Christ (the spiritual one ) can we even begin to know GOD >...we must look with spiritual eyes and spiritual hearts in order to understand him ......
This is being missed by many Christians in our days ..





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