Detained at Wal-Mart When Innocent. Cops called for cursing.

I have a young friend who was kept at walmart with a group of her friends and not allowed to leave, suspected of shoplifting. I only know what she told me about the entire thing, but she's a very smart and reliable girl. She's a senior in highschool now, but has been attending University since she was 15. I have never been misled by her, and she has never exaggerated anything.

She and a group of friends were hanging out in Wal-Mart, harmlessly, and when they were heading out the door they were stopped by a bunch of Wal-Mart employees. The employees said they saw them stealing on the security cameras, they had proof, etc. My friend and the rest of the girls emptied their pockets, purses, everything and showed the Wal-Mart head of security they had nothing. They still wouldn't let this group of girls go, saying they couldn't leave until they "got to the bottom of this." Finally, my friend addresses the Wal-Mart head of security and says "Look, we emptied our pockets. We don't have anything. You don't have any authority to keep me here, I'm leaving." The Wal-Mart head of security then blocked the doors and wouldn't let her leave. My friend then said "We don't f****** have it!"

The Wal-Mart guy asked for her ID, but she refuses to carry ID, she says it creeps her out. He asked for her cellphone and she said "Hell no." And cursed him out. (Hahah, teenagers. She is very smart, but she's still a teenager.) Then he called the cops. My friend and the rest of the girls had to sit in the cold for 45 minutes waiting for the cops.

When the cops got there, they quickly patted everyone down and took a peek in their purses and (surprise!) found nothing.

While the cops checked for the stolen item, the Wal-Mart employees all taunted my friend. She said they were "Insulting, loud, immature, condescending, etc." My friend sat there and took it for a while, and finally told him to "Stop wasting taxpayer dollars because a teenager mouthed off to you. You're 40 years old, why are you standing here trying to argue with a 17 year old? Grow up, go do your job and stop insulting me."

I guess the Wal-Mart employee wanted my friend arrested for profanity, but the cops laughed with my friend about it and told her what a "hot head" the Wal-Mart head of security is. She said she got the feeling the cops thought the whole thing was ridiculous as well. Anyway, since she was a minor her parents had to be called to pick her up and she is never allowed at Wal-Mart again.

I apologize for the long post, but I would rather include more detail then less. What do you guys think of this? Was Wal-Mart right in [physically] restraining my friend after she proved her and her friend's innocence? I wonder how many tax dollars were spend in this little incident over a $3 bottle of lotion the girls were suspected of stealing? Why is it that the few that stand up for themselves end up being punished for it, shouldn't this be admired?

Just crazy.

Nice post. Are you really sure they did not steal anything, use it, then dispose of it somewhere, like a trash can, and then try and leave later?

[edit on 7-12-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

check this one out.

i got arrested and sentenced to probation for sitting in a park and being a teenager.

yep thats about it. some idiot was smoking an illegal substance like 30 feet away from me and my friends but because im a teenager i got arrested and probation. i had nothing on me except a pack of cigarettes and a lighter and when i took a drug test i was clean


go freedom and justice

[edit on 07/17/2008 by N. Tesla]

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities


It's doubtful. I suppose they could have carried it around and set it on a shelf somewhere, but this girl has never stolen anything and I can't imagine her starting now.

Originally posted by garayn
reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

 

It's doubtful. I suppose they could have carried it around and set it on a shelf somewhere, but this girl has never stolen anything and I can't imagine her starting now.

Oh ok. What about the friends of the girl. You do not know them that well do you? Maybe they took it and set it down somewhere before leaving, hence getting 'cold feet'.

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities


Again, that is possible. I don't know her friends. However, that doesn't change the fact that the item was still in Wal-Mart, every much un-stolen.

Originally posted by garayn
reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

 

Again, that is possible. I don't know her friends. However, that doesn't change the fact that the item was still in Wal-Mart, every much un-stolen.

True but if the camera men saw her covet and put something into her pocket, purse, etc., then I could see why they were stopping you from leaving. If they did not see her put it back due to 'cold feet', then they were just ignorant of the truth. I mean, obviously the girl's friend is not going to say, "I put it back" to prove she did not steal anything. I feel as if that is incriminating herself.

I am not a criminal justice expert so I do not know if attempting to steal is an offense of any kind.

Just felt I should play antagonist here, getting into the minds of those who stopped you.

Originally posted by Unlimitedpossibilities
Maybe they took it and set it down somewhere before leaving, hence getting 'cold feet'.

That doesn't apply. There are several aspects that have to be met before detaining someone for shoplifting. One of them is passing the opportunity to pay for what's in your possession. As none of the kids had anything to pay for they couldn't be detained. Walmart could very well have a civil suit on their hands for unlawful detention. The cops would actually be witnesses for the kids.

Walmart has a policy of not stopping anyone if the object being stolen is under $35. It's not worth the time or money to have someone arrested and taken to court. Teenagers are a big problem at Walmart...they pick things up, carry it around the store, play with it, and then leave it in a section of the store where an employee has to put it back up. We who work at Walmart call them Wal-Monsters! I do believe that the security guy did over-react though. The most stolen item? Condoms and pregnacy tests!

I did loss prevention and then security consulting for a big corporation to put myself through junior college a few years ago. It sounds like the Wal Mart security messed up a bit on that stop. First of all, he should have brought the teens to the LP office, not interrogated them out in the open. Second of all, security should never make a stop unless absolutely certain the person still has the merchandise. When I was doing it I had five steps I had to follow before I could grab someone.
1. See them enter the area
2. See the person select the item
3. See the person conceal the item
4. Keep eyes on them the entire time
5. Only make a stop after the person had passed all registers, showing clear intent to steal the merchandise.

To me it sounds like the guy missed step 4 at least. If they had no merchandise on them at the time of the stop, and the police then confirmed this, there is absolutely no case. I hate to say this but I have a feeling one of the girls friends did steal something and then ditched it at the last minute. The average settlement for a bad stop is $20,000. That's a lot of pressure on security to not mess up. It doesn't really matter if the person ditched it, if it can be proved your young friend was not in possession of anything. The only times I have ever seen a bad stop, and I traveled to a lot of stores, was when someone ditched the product before they got to the door. I still remember wrestling a guy to the ground, getting cuffs on him and not being able to find the merchandise for about five minutes, he shoved it up his sleeve when I grabbed him.

If I were you, I would suggest the family contacts a lawyer. Get the report from the LP guys, if there is no report, they are in deep poo. Get a copy of the police report, and all video evidence. I don't normally advocate suing anyone, but when an LP acts like this he needs to lose his job. I would also warn this girl that messing with LP's is a bad idea. You may think you won't get caught, or that you can't get in trouble for what a friend does but you will and it's not fun. I saw some pretty tough guys start crying when we slapped the cuffs on them and waited for the police to show up.

reply to post by intrepid


I'm not so sure, I do believe that suspicion of theft is enough for detainment by the security guard until such time as a LEO can arrive and make the call.

Otherwise anyone that had an object well hidden enough that a security guard could not find it would be able to just drive away with shoplifted goods before a LEO could show up.

Originally posted by intrepid
That doesn't apply. There are several aspects that have to be met before detaining someone for shoplifting. One of them is passing the opportunity to pay for what's in your possession. As none of the kids had anything to pay for they couldn't be detained. Walmart could very well have a civil suit on their hands for unlawful detention. The cops would actually be witnesses for the kids.

Well since we are going on speculation only, it does apply. When looking from the perspective of security and imagining that one girl did have the lotion and perhaps set it down getting 'cold feet', then it how is that not a probable scenario? It was not too long ago when I watched my fellow friends do the same thing many times.



[edit on 7-12-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities


See Raustin's post above. Much more detailed but it's spot on.

reply to post by niteboy82


Right. I agree. So they kept them there in order to let the police handle it. I mean, unless these WalMart employees are extremely bored, I do not see a reason to falsely accuse someone of stealing.

I am no WalMart advocate though

reply to post by Raustin


Ok, thanks.

So he would have had to know without a doubt that the person was shoplifting after leaving behind every possibility of purchasing an item.

I'm pretty unfamiliar here about how that all works, as we have police officers that work details for security at Wal Mart, and I very rarely actually go there.

My wife works retail security in indiana, and I know at least in this state, it is illegal for security guards to detain someone, even if they believe they have stolen something, unless the person volunteers to stay in their posession.


in other words, if a security guard wishes to detain someone for shoplifting, the person being detained has to "volunteer" to remain. Of course, this is not well known, so people automatically assume that if they are stopped, they can be detained. But if they wanted to, they could walk right on out, get in their car, and drive away, and the guard, legally, can do nothing to stop them.

In fact, if the guard touches the person in any way, it can bring severe repurcussions on the guard.


I am not sure how it works in other states, but that's how it is here. I suspect it's similar where your friend lives, given how the story went.

Originally posted by intrepid
reply to post by Unlimitedpossibilities

 

See Raustin's post above. Much more detailed but it's spot on.

Wow that was a great post. Thanks Raustin!


So intrepid. I am confused. Are you now conceding to the "set it down somewhere before leaving" theory? I think we were in agreement all along.

reply to post by Jomina


Wow, I didn't know that at all!

Good to know just as its important especially these days for people to know what rights they do or do not have in these matters. Otherwise we'd never realize when they are taken away because we'd assume they're already gone.

If that is the case in this state, then I would have to agree that yeah the guard was wrong.

reply to post by Jomina


It usually isn't illegal to go 'hands on'. Usually it's just store policy that limits physical force. When an LP detains someone, it is considered a citizens arrest and generally speaking some physical force is allowed. The company I worked for had a pretty loose policy against physical contact. A retailer a few blocks away was not allowed to use any physical force and called us daily to warn of people that threatened them with violence. When we got threatened, they got cuffed. If they fought, we fought back. It usually comes down to how many times the store has been successfully sued for excessive force.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by Raustin]