"Kop Busters" in Odessa, TX

I would be willing to bet that there was maybe one of those policemen who invaded that home who was actually involved with obtaining the warrant.

I would also be willing to bet, that if we had 3 or 4 of these types of operations in problem areas like Odessa that we would end up with a much tighter police force.


To be honest, we should have tax payers dollars paying for stuff like this just to help ensure privacy and that the LEO's don't overstep.

reply to post by Tiloke


Signed with who? I don't have such a contract with the electric company, or the local police.

It is easy to understand that Odessa, along with Midland, Big Springs, Monahans, Andrews, and the other towns located along state highway 385 which runs north to south starting at I-10, crossing I-20 and goes up into Amarillo and through Lubbock and hits I-40, is a perfect trade route for drug trafficking. Odessa is considered to be the "hub" point for it, and sadly enough, it is.

It is also a hub point for a huge portion of illegal immigration. There are "cyote" clans that are based out of Odessa..ie those who fill up their SUV's and vans and bring over illegals and have safe houses for them scattered all over Odessa.

But just because someone happens to have a collection of sunlamps lit up in their home, or are lighting up something like a scene for some home movie they are making, or even to just light them up, gives absolutely no reason for cops to "assume" that drugs or pot is within the house.

The drug dealers, meth makers, pot peddlers out there are WAY smarter than that...trust me. WAY smarter.

And it is quite foolish for the police to assume that within this particular home, where it seems to have a large electric bill, to go through the trouble of getting a warrent, and rading the house over a large electric bill!! And thus..you have the end result..a huge embarrasing, national coverage event of a blunder that occurs quite alot in Odessa.

Now had the cops focused on real investigative technique and gathered up more evidence, like patrol the area, put the house under survellance, tracked who comes and who goes, then maybe they would have saved themselves alot of trouble and alot of embarrassment.

To put it simply..they F'ed up....again!





Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by Tiloke


I highly doubt that a town with a whopping 90,000 population even has a police helicopter, much less a million dollar system like FLIR.

Odessa, Midland, and Big Spring are EXTREMELY well funded for drug investigation. You are talking about the coc aine capitol of the US. At least 75% of the population smokes pot. No, that is not a statistic, it is my assessment based on living here for my entire life (and knowing what the roughnecks in the oilfield are like).

I am from here. I know what it is like. People come up missing VERY often, and even though the police will search for them, everyone knows where they went: the Mexican drug cartels were owed money.

13 years ago, the LEO in Big Spring had a big dust up. The Drug Task Force officers were found to have their hands in the cookie jar. 1 is in the witness protection program, the other was demoted and had to work his way back up the system again. His replacement was found 4 years later in a small shack near Marfa. He was face down in half a kilo of coke, and had a gun shot to the back of his head. Around that same time, half the force was fired for steroid use. Our cops are VERY crooked.

You talk an aweful lot of ignorance and doing some simple investigation. You should start by saying that into the mirror.


BTW, the police helicopter is provided via a joint task force with the Permian Basin Drug Task force and the DPS (state police). Odessa/Midland may be small....but it is an area with a LOT of wealth. Oil brings a lot of money.



[edit on 8-12-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Neither here nor there really, but I've got to give a big for the several members who have brought their unique and sometimes local knowledge to this thread. Safe to say most of us have shed a bit of ignorance in the course of this thread.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Tiloke

 

Signed with who? I don't have such a contract with the electric company, or the local police.

Yes you do. Do you really think the electric company would supply you with power without some sort of agreement?

Originally posted by Tiloke

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Tiloke

 

Signed with who? I don't have such a contract with the electric company, or the local police.

Yes you do. Do you really think the electric company would supply you with power without some sort of agreement?

I do not believe that TXU has you sign an agreement or contract. When you get power you just put up a deposit (or not, if you have decent credit). Then pay your bill.

Later i can scan the paperwork that comes with my TXU bill if anyone really wants to read it.

But that means little, as they may be using one of the other providers (Texas is deregulated, and you can use others like Reliant or CapRock in this region....it is all from Oncor, anyway, you just choose a different middle man).

Originally posted by Tiloke

Do you really think the electric company would supply you with power without some sort of agreement?

You have a good point and it's a loop hole of our civil rights that needs to be plugged.

I'm certain that the electric companies have no interest in what thier customers do with the power they sell them as long as they are paying their bills. It's LEA's who have wrongly used the power companies to provide that information in order to streamline the process and negate the need for a warrant.

As far as I'm concerned those type of contracts should become illegal and maybe it's time we write a consumer bill of rights to protect us from corporations and their little agreements that form alliances with LEA's for the purposes of bypassing our civil rights.

There are many commodities that we all need to survive. While I'm sure if LEA's had access to everything we buy, everywhere we go, they could easily construe that many people are doing things that are against the law.

In that world everyone becomes a suspect and it is only by investigation that people are cleared. That's not the type of world I want to live in. It's just wrong and evil.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by verylowfrequency]

I think that what Barry done out in Odessa, Texas needs to be done in several jurisdictions all over the United States. It just goes to show that most local agencies think that they are above the law. What this group has shown us is that most of these agencies are illegaly setting up search or arrest warrants on false pretenses.

The sad thing is that most judges go along with it thinking that the arrests will get supposed drug dealers off the streets. When, in fact, they can be putting innocent people behind bars for ten to twenty years or more.

The attachment of agreements which essentially forfeit rights are a common element of employment agreements and service agreements, however when this happens it is usually minor things or else financial in nature, such as agreeing to binding arbitration by a firm chosen by the company.

It does open up a significant loophole that always seemed right on the hairy edge of being a matter of durress (though I can see the imperfect logic whereby the courts might be concerned that the natural end of setting such a precendent could be communism).

It bears mentioning however that many service providers, online and other, including google use implicit consent to terms that they hide from you, (google's privacy policy is the smallest item on the search page and written in the smallest font- the average person doesn't even recognize the presence of the link if they aren't specifically looking for it) and sometimes exceed even those terms by actively cooperating with LEOs rather than simply abiding by their responsibilities when required through due process.

Just because you were never made aware of a contract's existence or asked to sign it doesn't mean that you aren't legally considered contractually bound.

It's a bit of a two edged sword.
On the one hand, there is a clear and systematic effort to bury personal freedom beneath a mountain of legalese and technical loopholes (including a "do what we say or you have no right to participate in society" mindset- which suggests that you have the option of not entering these contracts by not seeking a home, a job, or any services- but that doesn't really stand up to reason considering that vagrancy is a crime in many places). In short, it's a complete affront to liberty.
But on the other hand, there are certain aspects of law enforcement abuses which are technically within the letter of the law.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
There is no legitimate way that I can come up with for the cops to get a warrant for a place that not only isn't really a growing operation, but in fact is a sting, without Kop Busters actually being guilty of a crime.

An informant who reports being told something rather than personally observing something cannot give admissable testimony- it is hearsay as Darthorious said. He would have to observe something on his own.

The only way I can see it being legit is if Kop Busters actually DID commit a drug crime and then cleaned up the evidence in a hurry to sucker the cops. That seems unlikely, as the cops would have immediately realized what had happened and nailed Cooper on the crime that was used as "bait", in order to protect themselves.

So that's all I've got- either Kop Busters committed a crime or the Cops did- and so far it looks like the cops did.

I know your a moderator and all, (and forgive me if this has been covered in pages 3-7) but it appears your ignorant to the police state. You need to read up on the growing trend of police curruption that has led to unlawful seizures of not only millions in cash, but also hundreds of millions in assets.

Most often, a person can have any semi-large amount of cash on them, and because of this the cops can then seize the money and claim that it was suspected profits of crime. This is where you say "HEY! NOT IN AMERICA!" Yah, well yes, in America, when it comes to abuse like this, you are guilty until proven innocent. The burden of proof falls upon the citizen, and not the government. They can seize your assets with no evidence, no charges, and on mere suspicion.

Articles:
www.npr.org...
stopthedrugwar.org...

Cases like this happen all over the country any given day, but actual coverage of them is only a small fraction of reality.

1992 Ventura County millionaire Donald Scott was gunned down on his property by the swat team who was raiding his 100+ acre farm on suspicion of a grow op.

What was uncovered after his death, is that because he refused to sell his land to the government. They attempted to get it for free using forfeiture laws.

en.wikipedia.org...(Malibu,_CA)

Wikipedia Quote

Early on the morning of October 2, 1992, 31 officers from the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, Drug Enforcement Administration, Border Patrol, National Guard and Park Service entered the Scott's 200-acre (0.81 km2) ranch. [2] They planned to arrest Scott for allegedly running a 4,000-plant marijuana plantation.[1] When deputies broke down the door to Scott's house, Scott's wife would later tell reporters, she screamed, "Don't shoot me. Don't kill me."[3] That brought Scott staggering out of the bedroom, bleary-eyed from a cataract operation -- holding a .38 caliber Colt snub-nosed revolver over his head.[4] When he emerged at the top of the stairs, holding his gun over his head, the officers told him to lower the gun. As he did, they shot him to death. According to the official report, the gun was pointed at the officers when they shot him. [1]

Later, the lead agent in the case, sheriff's deputy Gary Spencer and his partner John Cater posed for photographs arm-in-arm outside Scott's cabin.[4]

Despite a subsequent search of Scott's ranch using helicopters, dogs, searchers on foot, and a high-tech Jet Propulsion Laboratory device for detecting trace amounts of sinsemilla, no marijuana -- or any other illegal drug -- was found.[5]

This is just one case that lead to death. But often the unlawful forfeiture laws destroy people as large sums of cash are taken and are never returned. The cost of taking the government to court, even if the amount is $20,000, becomes pointless when you consider the costs of court.

Another instance involved a Landscaper who was flying out of state to purchase shrubbery with cash at wholesale. After a teller at the airport noticed he was carrying a large amount of cash, police officers quickly approached him and asked to search his person. He agreed and upon finding $9,600 it was seized as suspected of being linked to the drug trade. Even though he claimed that was not the case, and the police had absolutely no evidence of it.

Willie Jones story here.

Now I can't seem to find the article/video of the TV news show, that investigated this. They sent people to the airport with hidden cameras and large amounts of cash to purchase tickets. Sure enough the tellers (who are paid to give tips of people carrying large amount of cash, or are acting suspicious) had told authorities of their presence. They were quickly approached and asked for permission to search, upon attempting to seize the cash, they revealed they were working for (insert new agency) and the cops immediately dropped it, and left them alone, ONLY cause they were national media.

So these people are left with no recourse. Barry cooper featured in OP article has talked about these realities on many occasions. He is an EX DEA agent and by his own accounts 'the rap and tap' method, of knocking on someones door and forcing entry into the home was successful 90%+ of the time.

Officers, once they have your door open and are communicating face to face with you, will use every dirty tactic in the book to get you to AGREE to them searching your house. Any resistance and they quickly change their tune to how much trouble you are going to be in if you make things harder then they already are.

Once in your house, absolutely any trace, of anything could be used as evidence against you, and it was all obtained without ever getting a warrant.

Furthermore, once they catch someone Cooper himself claims that he had a 95% success rate in turning people in rats, with threats of major prison sentences, people quickly start incriminating other people, whether its true or not since they fear the consequences of not cooperating.

To get back to the original point, that law enforcement will use any tactic, legal or illegal, to get someone if they want someone. If they have to lie, to get a warrant they will, if they have to entrap people, they will, and they will write the reports how they want them to appear.

Its a sad time we live in, the police state is approaching.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by king9072]

[edit on 8-12-2008 by king9072]

reply to post by king9072


King I believe you have misunderstood me. I said I did not believe there was a LEGITIMATE way that a warrant could have been obtained without kopbusters committing a crime.

My logic was that a warrant was obtained, kopbusters was not busted for any crime, therefore I believe the warrant was obtained by illegitimate means. I can see how you may have misunderstood and believed me to be saying "they wouldn't have been raided if they weren't guilty" but I have argued against that very point at length in the pages which you did not read.

No worries though, it is perfectly acceptable to disagree with a mod. No harm no foul, but I'd be quite pleased if you would be a little slower to call me ignorant though.

Originally posted by The Vagabond
reply to post by king9072

 

King I believe you have misunderstood me. I said I did not believe there was a LEGITIMATE way that a warrant could have been obtained without kopbusters committing a crime.

My logic was that a warrant was obtained, kopbusters was not busted for any crime, therefore I believe the warrant was obtained by illegitimate means. I can see how you may have misunderstood and believed me to be saying "they wouldn't have been raided if they weren't guilty" but I have argued against that very point at length in the pages which you did not read.

No worries though, it is perfectly acceptable to disagree with a mod. No harm no foul, but I'd be quite pleased if you would be a little slower to call me ignorant though.

Well, your right on, I did think exactly that. But after reading up to your post, I felt compelled to reply. I hope you read my post in entirety cause I didnt just say your ignorant... PEACE! I did elaborate on reality.

But I still think your claim is kind of a catch 22, because in this case its obvious that there was NO legitimate reason to be searching. But they obtained a warrant (some how) which the articles on this video show that they did try and get the affidavit that apparently contained the incriminating evidence, but their request was refused.

Its gangster cops, at their best, on reality TV. I LOVE IT! Apologies on the misinterpretation.

No probs man. Incidentally, and I don't mean to be self promoting, but if you're looking for a quick down and dirty on what all I've said here, you can trim a thread down to only what a single member has said in it by going to their Profile then clicking on the Posts link at the top, find the right thread in the list there, then click the thread posts link there.

Because you're right, I've hedged by bet a bit towards the back end of this thread- it is my trademark to start out rather fire and brimstone (sometimes rather cleverly I dare say) but then cool my jets a bit and start hashing out the technicalities in the interest of consensus.

Long story short, the cops almost certainly used FLIR, and for lack of a drug operation could not possibly have had probable cause to get a warrant to use FLIR from an informant, even though some kinds of hearsay are admissable for that purpose.
So it is almost a slam dunk that the cops fraudlently obtained the warrant. No argument there- I've been round and round that issue with SuperTruper.

But when it comes to the electric company reporting usage spikes and the possible wrongdoing by the judge and DA, there is information missing from this thread on those subjects and so I've hashed out some possibilities on both sides.

Good show with the level of detail in your posts by the way.

is their website back up yet? I've been trying to check it out but every time it says due to extreme traffic yadda yadda yadda etc. etc. if someone is able to get on please post some screen shots

this guy is amazing. i went to a marijuana march he held in dallas, tx and cops were following us everywhere we went, it was hillarious, right across the street from the federal building and fox news

This area of texas is the drug capitol. It has escalated over the past months with drug families even having drug wars... The cops here are so worthless that they still wont focus on what is going on and instead focus on petty crimes like trying to set up speed traps on every dang street. I do know people on the inside of the drug force here, and i bet the sh!t hits the fan soon... And yes, the cops here are crooked.

I dont know where one poster thinks there are only 90,000 people in Odessa, but your WAY off of even being close.

Odessa, including WEST Odessa combined is well over 125,000.

And you know what else...they have THREE police choppers, and that was back in 2006 when I lived there. They may have more than that now.

BFFT is right, they got a huge financial resource for fighting the drug hub of Texas and you can bet your longhorn bull that they will spend a good chunk on all the necessary tools they need to combat it in the very place its centered.

But again, just because someone has a large electric bill, doesnt mean that the law is right in saying "oh they must be growing pot in there to justify such a huge electric bill.

I suppose anyone or any buisness with an electric bill over 80 bucks could be considered growing pot then and the entire city would be under a siege.

TXU/Atmos does NOT require any contract to provide utility to anyone. You simply call them up, tell them where you need service, they charge a deposit, usually around 120 bucks, and unless the power is already on at the place where you need it, it usually takes less than 2 days for them to go out there and plug in the meter. Most of the time, the power is already on, it just gets put into your name when you request the service.

Sheesh, I love how some people who dont even live there, or have ever lived there, try to spout their BS and think they know what the heck they are talking about. Ive smelled better foul air from a west texas vulture than this!!!!





Cheers!!!!

Originally posted by RFBurns
I dont know where one poster thinks there are only 90,000 people in Odessa, but your WAY off of even being close.

Odessa, including WEST Odessa combined is well over 125,000.

Really? Not according to EVERY piece of information I could find.

Odessa's population was 90,943 at the 2000 Census, with a 2005 census population estimated projection of 93,546.

And you know what else...they have THREE police choppers, and that was back in 2006 when I lived there. They may have more than that now.

Really? Their website goes into detail about their patrol divisions, SWAT teams, K-9 units and even their animal control units, but there is not one single peep about an air unit.
www.odessapd.com...

I suppose anyone or any buisness with an electric bill over 80 bucks could be considered growing pot then and the entire city would be under a siege.

Now who has no idea what they are talking about? Not "any business with a bill over 80 bucks" could be considered growing pot. The house that has a 2000 watt jump that lasts exactly 12 hours every day for 2 months could be though. Without going into too much detail, there are very specific lighting conditions you need to strictly maintain if you are growing pot. It is THOSE PATTERNS that they are looking for, not the total amount of your bill. Your argument here is completely invalid.

TXU/Atmos does NOT require any contract to provide utility to anyone. You simply call them up, tell them where you need service, they charge a deposit, usually around 120 bucks, and unless the power is already on at the place where you need it, it usually takes less than 2 days for them to go out there and plug in the meter. Most of the time, the power is already on, it just gets put into your name when you request the service.

Really? I found this on your own power companies site;

It is important for to be a well informed consumer so if a problem arises you know what steps to take to protect yourself, so make sure to read all paperwork that you receive from your energy company. The Terms of Service will detail fees, contract terms, billing and payment information, credit and deposit policies and cancellation of services. The Your Rights as a Customer disclosure will outline financial assistance options, slamming, cramming, disconnection and restoration of service, complaint resolution and contact information.

www.electricitytexas.com...

So that argument is untrue, pure and simple. Here in Denver there is a cell phone company called Cricket. In their ads they say you don't have to sign anything, and you don't. However, their is still a contract between the company and the customers. The customers still have to pay their bills if they want a phone and abide by the companies terms and conditions. The fact that he is using the phone and that they are letting him constitutes a legal agreement, just like the power companies, and all with no actual contracts signed.

There are over 20 different customer agreements with 4 appendixes listed on my power companies website. I am expected to abide by the terms set forth in those agreements, even if I havn't even heard of them.

Sheesh, I love how some people who dont even live there, or have ever lived there, try to spout their BS and think they know what the heck they are talking about. Ive smelled better foul air from a west texas vulture than this!!!!

Cheers!!!!

And I love how apparently people who have lived there can't even be bothered to check their facts before attempting to berate another member.




P.S. did you notice how I avoided phrases that are only used to insult and belittle and add nothing to the thread like "Spout their BS". I also did it without having to compare you to a vulture fart, try to do the same.



[edit on 8-12-2008 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by Tiloke
See? I'm sure you had a decent post after this opening statement and may even have made some good points, but I didn't read it. Maybe try to ACT civil towards another human being, don't turn into an insulting jerk because you don't like cops.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by Tiloke]

I don't know if you actually read the entire thread, but Super Truper has been wrong on quite a few different points concerning the law. I don't know about you, but I prefer the police officers that protect me KNOW the law. And if they don't, they need to QUIT and go work at BK. I have no issue with cops, a buddy I went to school with is a cop. I've never been in trouble with the law once in my entire life (speeding ticket once, even that was a pleasant experience!). I whole heartedly understand and respect what cops have to do every day. So maybe you should act civil towards me and not turn into an insulting jerk because you obviously have no idea why I said what I said? You're right, I made a few good points and if you read them you might not have been so far off base....