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Thoughts on God

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posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 03:18 AM
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I'm hoping this is an appropriate thread for this forum. It seems like it is, but I apologize if I'm mistaken.

I've been thinking a lot about God lately, about what I believe in. I guess I am what is considered agnostic, although I often tell people I'm atheist to avoid having to explain my beliefs. This might sound crazy, but at 28 years old I'm still figuring out what I believe, I have a feeling it may be a lifelong journey. I find that idea pretty exciting.
I can tell you what I don't believe in. I don't believe in any of the organized religions. I feel they are another way for the powerful to control and exploit the weak. I feel that organized religion provides a crutch for people so that they don't have to think about the universe and their place in it. And I think that's a shame; learning and discovery about who, what, why, where, and how we are, is probably the most fulfilling experience in life, and one that should be embraced.
I don't believe that God created the entire universe, and then made us the only intelligent beings in it, that's just silly. I also don't believe that we were created "as is". I think God started the ball rolling, but let things develop naturally. In that sense, even through evolution we are seeing God's work.
It's difficult for me to imagine a being so powerful that it could create everything from the tiniest cell, to the infinite universe, and all the life in it while at the same time being so petty and egotistical. It doesn't make sense to me that there is this being out there, a being who created everything, a being who knows and sees all, a being that loves us so much, but is willing to damn us to eternal suffering for the slightest infraction, or for simply not believing in and worshiping it. That kind of thinking is very "human". It reminds me of something a king would do, not a God.

So what do I believe in? I do believe that God created everything, including us. I don't believe in heaven and hell, I believe that when we die we return to God. I don't believe that we are separate from God. I believe that we, and everything around us are pieces of God. It makes sense if you think about it, everything from rocks, to bugs, to people at the base level are made up of the same stuff; atoms, molecules, and other things that I should have but didn't learn in science class :-). So I believe that everything was not only created by God, but is actually made from God. In that sense we are all God. It also means that all of us are connected, and connected to everything.
I also believe that everyone sees and experiences God in their own way, even if they don't realize it. People of faith do it through their holy books and their prayer; "New Age" people do it through meditation. Even atheists who reject spirituality and embrace science experience God. They experience God through scientific exploration and discovery; they just don't realize that they are in fact seeing God and God's work, and that's okay. God doesn't care if we acknowledge and worship.
I believe we are here to learn and experience. Although we have our own rules and morals; our own rights and wrongs, they have no impact on the afterlife.
I think each of us have probably lived many lifetimes; possibly hundreds or even thousands. I believe each time we live, we learn more. We take our experiences with us to the next life, although we don't consciously remember them. I think eventually, when we are ready we stop coming back as humans and we move on to something higher; perhaps some kind of alien life form, or something else we can't even imagine. I really don't know. What I do know is that we're always learning, always experiencing, and using those experiences to get to the next step, whatever that is.

[continued next post]




posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 03:18 AM
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Just because I don't believe in organized religion as a whole, doesn't mean that I disbelieve everything they have to offer. For instance, I believe there were "prophets"; such as Jesus, Mohammed, and Buddha. I don't believe however, that they were sent here specifically by God to teach us, or to die for our sins. I believe they were normal people, just like you and me; the only difference being they had attained a much higher level of awareness and understanding. Did Jesus perform miracles? I don't know. I suppose it's possible that with a higher level of awareness comes the ability to do things that we would consider impossible or supernatural. However, I think it's more likely that like in the childhood game of "telephone", things have been greatly exaggerated. I also think that their messages and teachings have been twisted and skewed and perverted over time to fit the needs of those who wish to control us.

Okay, I'm done rambling now. This is just one man's opinion. I'm sure things are not as clear as they can and should be, so if you have questions please don't hesitate to ask, I'll be happy to elaborate on anything. If you disagree with me that's fine, but I'm not going to get into an argument or debate with anyone about what the Bible or any other holy book or writings say, that's not what this was about. This thread is about sharing of ideas, not a "I'm right and you're wrong" kind of thing.


Thanks for reading.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by NoArmsJames
I don't believe that God created the entire universe, and then made us the only intelligent beings in it, that's just silly. I also don't believe that we were created "as is". I think God started the ball rolling, but let things develop naturally. In that sense, even through evolution we are seeing God's work.



Urantia Papers
The morality of the religions of evolution drives men forward in the God quest by the motive power of fear. The religions of revelation allure men to seek for a God of love because they crave to become like him. But religion is not merely a passive feeling of "absolute dependence" and "surety of survival"; it is a living and dynamic experience of divinity attainment predicated on humanity service.

The great and immediate service of true religion is the establishment of an enduring unity in human experience, a lasting peace and a profound assurance.

With primitive man, even polytheism is a relative unification of the evolving concept of Deity; polytheism is monotheism in the making. Sooner or later, God is destined to be comprehended as the reality of values, the substance of meanings, and the life of truth.


The truth is out there! It's been delivered to mankind.
www.urantia.org...



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 04:11 AM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


in general, i think that your opinion has something in it. i guess it feels so because i think quite alike. there was another similar thread, i guess it was this one. it may be useful for you.


Originally posted by NoArmsJames
I don't believe in heaven and hell


well, i guess there would be lot of defining to be done if we wanted to understand words like 'heaven' and 'hell'. i personally think that these are merely metafors for a being-state, which means something like state of mind everyone is, or the level of subjective acceptance of reality; if i am satisfied with myself and surrounding world, i am quite likely in heaven. if my life if sufferings due to my own actions, i'd be in hell like condition. but who am i to explain meanings, for most people have their own pre-dominated conseptions.



posted on Dec, 7 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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I'd say that your philosophy is spot-on. There are many different routes to the truth, or more importantly, versions of the truth. It takes a lifetime to uncover the truth, but some folk don't bother.

There are aspects of the truth in all religions, but they probably don't contain much more than a percentage of it. I have no religion, or belief; but I know God exists and over the years I've developed a personal spiritual philosophy, not far removed from what is contained in your post.

I mention the following links which you may find useful, as I have, if you choose to investigate further.

The first is to a small and modestly priced book 'A Course in Spiritual Philosophy' by Madam Amanda Valiant. It tells you about our Creator, The Lord God, God, the other inhabited planets and the various levels in the Afterlife or Heaven; as well as the Natural Laws. It also contains interviews with the Spiritual Hierarchy. It contains no religion, and tells the real story about Jesus Christ.

www.sphere8.com...

The second link is about Kryon of the Magnetic Service, who is channelled by Lee Caroll. It takes you to the Free Audio Downloads page and I can recommend these interesting seminars.

Kryon is responsible for the Magnetic Fields of Mother Earth and his talks are totally spiritual about God, Mankind and the nature of our relationship with Creation. Again, it has nothing to do with religion. There are over 60 hours of free audio files to download.

www.kryon.com...

The Kryon Home Page is: www.kryon.com...

If you choose to investigate either of these paths, I'm sure you'll find them helpful. I would point out that I'm not connected in any way with the organisations concerned.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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I've tried to get into Urantia a few times, but I just can't get it. It doesn't click for me.
I wish there was a "for dummies" guide



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


I believe the only stance that should be taken on religion is an individual one. In other words, read and interpret the Bible for yourself. If you go to Church, you hear the Church's interpretation that they want you to believe. The Catholic Church is the worst of all and massacred hundreds of thousands of non-believers, and still to this day threaten eternal HELL for any non-believer.

Look, if there is a God he gave you self-awareness so that you can make the right decisions yourself. Religious groups are a nice way for people to fill their bank accounts. The Catholic Church requires 10% of your income for you to be saved. If this does not show their true intention than nothing does.

If the Bible is true, you simply must accept that Jesus Christ is the savior of Man-Kind to go to Heaven. Whether or not Heaven exists nobody has any clue, but the point is Jesus Christ IS the savior of Man-Kind. He showed us that you can stand up against the government, fight for what is right, and not be afraid to see your last day. I think that is a pretty noble cause and although a lot of evil has come about Christianity, it is not Christ's fault. It is man-kind which is evil and has extorted his teachings.

In conclusion to my opinion towards God is that you must discover God yourself. Do not waste away fearing life after death. The gift of life is what he has given to us and would not want us to waste it fearing him.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by NoArmsJames
I've tried to get into Urantia a few times, but I just can't get it. It doesn't click for me.
I wish there was a "for dummies" guide


What needs to be realized is that the "Urantia book" isn't a book at all. It's a collection of 197 papers. I don't know what went into the logic projection for the line of of the papers into a book, its that they are trying to offer the infomation from a topdown perspective, but who ever was in charge of that failed to understand humans view the cosmo from the ground up.

It's very much a requirement to get into the urantia book that you realize it isn't a book but the Urantia Papers. You should then search through the papers, mostlikely in section 3 or 4, for a paper that will intrest you. This is really the only way to get started without having your mind fried.

Paper's I'd sudgest are
Paper 77 www.urantia.org...
The Midway Creatures: a very intresting introduction to the creatures that exist half way between the spiritual and phyiscal realms. The "fallen" of these creatures became known as the demons of religious lure. It also tells of how the midway creatures started from the "alien astronaughts" and does an intresting little side history of to show how the 1st degree (more spiritual) and 2nd degree (more physical) midway creatures share interesting links.
Paper 67 www.urantia.org...
The Planetary Rebellion: In ancient sumerian documents it tells of creatures that came out of the heavens, but when they tryed to take over mankind man rebelled and distroyed them. Those Sumerian documents were not really avilable to the public before 1935, when the Urantia Book was published, so how is it the book details the fall of those superhuman beings and the distruction that fell upon them when they tryed to turn the whole world over to the rebellion? It also shows the positive side, strange echoed also in the most of the world's most ancient "mythological" historical documents.
Paper 75 www.urantia.org...
The Default of Adam and Eve: the story's your momma never told you, because she just didn't know. The snake on the tree of life was the peanus of the decendances of the staff of the planetary rebellion. Adam took a bite too after eve, and this story spins out a wild ride of things you always wanted to know. Nothing like washing your loincloths in public.

There's so much truth in the urantia papers it's know as the book of truths. There is no to really offer a negitive perspective on how the book is untrue because unless someone searches for something false and then takes something out of context, having not read the book nor cared to do the research, because anyone that does good research and reads the book realize the book is for real. I should know. I thought I'd "debunk" the book in less then a couple of passages. However the more I read the more I realized the book is real. I was like



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



I guess I am what is considered agnostic, although I often tell people I'm atheist to avoid having to explain my beliefs.


You shouldn't feel the need to explain your personal beliefs to anyone. However, I'm surprised that you are willing to refer to yourself as an atheist since that is no where close to your views on faith.

Part of the personal belief system you described is referred to as Intelligent Design, and despite what others might say, it falls squarely in the realm of metaphysics and not science.


I think each of us have probably lived many lifetimes; possibly hundreds or even thousands. I believe each time we live, we learn more. We take our experiences with us to the next life, although we don't consciously remember them.


There is nothing quite like philosophical musings. You should find a wealth of intelligent conversation and discussion in this forum.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Isn't Intelligent Design a Christian belief?

Or has that name been hijacked by the religious right as well?



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


Thanks Incarnated, I'll check out those papers this evening.

Just be prepared, I will probably be back with lots of questions and interpretations.



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 



Have you see the free MP3 website yet? Personally this is the only way to go as I'm conserned. I don't know if you have an mp3 player, but they are easy to use and most affordable these days. The download is free and you just pop it into the player and listen.

urantiabook.org...



posted on Dec, 13 2008 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


I coulden't say it better. I have long been facitated by Hindu cosmology, which treats the universe in much more realistic terms, as with age. Reality is made up of an endless cycle, where the universe is created and destroyed, etc. But what ever religion you want to talk about, at least as far as I'm concerned, if one follows the teachings of Christ or the Buddha, you won't go wrong..

As far as what God is? Since I have no idea, I'll guess though this was already said by the above post. I would say the entire universe, in all its incarnations, is a single humungus organisim, like the Earth is refered to as Gaia, a single organisim. All life is a part of the whole. One reason perhaps we should not defame or waste it. Our wanton murder of each other (we call it war), and total disregard of this planets life, will come back to haunt us in spades.

What happens when people get sick? They throw up. The Earth may just do that to us. Who is to say the entire universe does not follow the same rules? I view God as aware but operating more by instinct then design. At some point, God may come to the conclusion; "Hey guys, I gave you a shot and you made a royal mess of it. Time to wipe the slate clean and start over.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


No, Intelligent Design is not a Christian belief, although it is being championed by the religious right in a thinly veiled attempt to allow Creationism a foothold in the public school system.

Simply put, ID is the belief that an unknown higher power had a hand in the creation of the Earth and all forms of life. It's a little more complicated, but that's the gist of it.

However, your particular belief system varies greatly in its range and depth, and cannot be so easily pigeonholed.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 14 2008 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


Well, I just read your post, very interesting. however, I do disagree with you that it sounds silly for a God to be so powerful that He could create everything and be in 100% control of everything that He created and that He can see all 24/7. That's exactly what I do believe in. I believe with all my heart that there is such a God as that and He is the true and living God, the only God that is worthy of our worship and our praise and our honor. I really believe that God, our Father God in heaven is the creator of all things. I do believe that for those that don't follow Him and trust in Him as their God and their Father in heaven and praise Him for He is worthy of our praise, I believe that there is an eternal place of torment for all those that have rejected Him and His Son, Christ Jesus ~ King of Kings and Lord of Lords. See, if anyone would read the bible with a real desire to know God and understand Him in the way we are required, then things wouldn't be so confusing and people wouldn't see our God as impossible or cruel or anything else other then wonderful, amazing, loving, full of grace and mercy. We a;; have opinions and we very rarely can ever see anything the way someone else sees it. I see our God and the Almight God of heaven and earth, creator of all, I see our God as the most wonderful and real and most reliable, most trustworthy, most excellent of all. I can't imagine my life without having my God to rely on and help me from one day to the next. My happiness and my health and my whole everything for being who I am and where I am comes from my most wonderful and loving creator in heaven, My heavenly Father in whom I trust with all I am. Now to feel that..... WOW! It's the greatest feeling.



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 12:55 AM
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Yeah I guess there are similarities between my beliefs and ID. I just take it further and say that God did it (at least here) through evolution.



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by motherof2twoSee, if anyone would read the bible with a real desire to know God and understand Him in the way we are required, then things wouldn't be so confusing and people wouldn't see our God as impossible or cruel or anything else other then wonderful, amazing, loving, full of grace and mercy. We a;; have opinions and we very rarely can ever see anything the way someone else sees it. I see our God and the Almight God of heaven and earth, creator of all, I see our God as the most wonderful and real and most reliable, most trustworthy, most excellent of all. I can't imagine my life without having my God to rely on and help me from one day to the next. My happiness and my health and my whole everything for being who I am and where I am comes from my most wonderful and loving creator in heaven, My heavenly Father in whom I trust with all I am. Now to feel that..... WOW! It's the greatest feeling.


See now, to me this God you describe is the epitome of cruel, and is devoid of mercy, grace, or love.
I'm assuming by your screen name that you are actually a mother of two. If one or both of your children decided not to obey you would you torture them without mercy their entire lives? I bet not. Now if you; an imperfect sinner are not capable of that kind of cruelty, then why is your perfect, loving god?

[edit on 12/15/2008 by NoArmsJames]



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 01:09 AM
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Originally posted by NoArmsJames
Yeah I guess there are similarities between my beliefs and ID. I just take it further and say that God did it (at least here) through evolution.


Physical beings plant a physical injection of biological life upon a planet made ready. They then watch and protect as that life grows and evolves. However there are already within the biochemical make-up of the life implantation a series of steps to be followed in the "evolutionary" growth.


Life does not originate spontaneously. Life is constructed according to plans formulated by the (unrevealed) Architects of Being and appears on the inhabited planets either by direct importation or as a result of the operations of the Life Carriers of the local universes. These carriers of life are among the most interesting and versatile of the diverse family of universe Sons. They are intrusted with designing and carrying creature life to the planetary spheres. And after planting this life on such new worlds, they remain there for long periods to foster its development

Life Carriers




The Satania Life Carriers had projected a sodium chloride pattern of life; therefore no steps could be taken toward planting it until the ocean waters had become sufficiently briny. The Urantia type of protoplasm can function only in a suitable salt solution. All ancestral life--vegetable and animal--evolved in a salt-solution habitat. And even the more highly organized land animals could not continue to live did not this same essential salt solution circulate throughout their bodies in the blood stream which freely bathes, literally submerses, every tiny living cell in this "briny deep."

Life Establishment on Earth


[edit on 15-12-2008 by Incarnated]



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by NoArmsJames
 


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


You describe yourself as agnostic, but then turn around and attest to a belief in God.


Perhaps you are referring to agnostic theism?


Agnostic theism, also known as Spiritual Agnosticism is the philosophical view that encompasses both theism and agnosticism. Per theism, an agnostic theist believes that the proposition at least one deity exists is true, but, per agnosticism, believes that the existence of gods are unknown or inherently unknowable. The agnostic theist may also or alternatively be agnostic regarding the properties of the god(s) they believe in.


As far as your views regarding evolution, what you are describing most closely resembles Intelligent Design.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 12/15/2008 by maria_stardust]



posted on Dec, 15 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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I'd never heard of Agnostic Theism before today, but it does seem to fit me.
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