I'm sick of these new age people.

Here here, it seems as though the ego gets carried away with itself in people. Quite amazing really.

rogerandre.weebly.com...

reply to post by Frankidealist35

Real science is the study of life the Universe and everything using PROVABLE FACTS.

as opposed to unprovable facts?

:-)

the scientific method - hard to argue with that

the thing is - it's only useful in science

the only reason I felt the urge to pipe up here in this thread is that you used the word hate - and came right out and said that you're sick of these new age people

I was curious about that level of disdain - as if a crime had been committed

it's a recurring theme here at ATS - People of the Scientific Method vs. People Who Like to Wonder About Stuff

as if it matters - as if someone can actually win

you'd have us believe I suppose that science could function without wondering

and, I would like to suggest - on the subject of scamming - that it's possible during the course of human history that we have been scammed by science as well

people being what they are - someone's always looking out for number one

so, during the battle between science and fanciful thinking - everyone should try and remember

they're just ideas amigo - no reason anyone has to get hurt

reply to post by Frankidealist35


They are all full of BS. It's a mixture of the naive, stupid, and con artists. They just need to keep their BS to themselves, and stop trying to mix it with science to try to give their new age BS legitimacy. They also need to keep their BS out of the whole UFO thing. Actually, they just need to keep their BS to themselves.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


Actually, science has provable facts. You should look at scientific journals. They have lots of them! Now, they're provable in the sense that they work. However, these new-age things DO NOT have provable facts, only speculation.

My problem with these new-age people, is, once again, that these are just fanciful thinking, and, it's okay, but they don't need to put their spiritual side on science. I would like my science to stay away from spiritualism... these spiritualism can go study science on their own if they like and do that... but... I like my science pure thank you. I feel enlightened enough. I don't want someone shoving their own version of enlightenment down my throats.

[edit on 7-12-2008 by Frankidealist35]

reply to post by SpacePunk


I personally think they are damaging the credibility of some very credible fields... to say the least. I share your view.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


We live in very strange times.
The most important thing is ,IMHO, what appears in dreams and visions.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Do you really think that theories like those expressed in "What the Bleep" are damaging quantum physics?

If you look at those scientific journals you mentioned, I doubt you will find a reference to the new age vibration/dimensional reality/law of attraction stuff in any article.

If anything, it introduces quantum physics to a whole demograph who would never encounter it otherwise. And if it's a simplified and warped view of quantum mechanics, those who are genuinely interested will find that out as soon as they look at the Science section of the bookstore instead of the Spirituality section.

I also think it's misleading to say that science deals (only) with "provable facts".

Science deals with observations, hypotheses, and theories. In the case of something like "string theory", science mostly (as I understand it) deals with mathematical predictions.

Generally, science is concerned with whether the observations we make are consistent with the predictions we make based on our hypotheses about how things work.

If you don't like science-flavored spirituality, that's fine. I don't either. But it works for some people, and no one's held a gun to my head and made me buy into it yet.

To go from disliking the application of misunderstood quantum physics by a couple authors to "I'm sick of these new age people" is both an ad hominem argument (attacking the people not the idea), a gross generalization (quantum physics is a small part of the new age movement), and also runs the risk of "throwing out the baby with the bathwater."

And while I'm sure quantum physicists are sometimes annoyed at cocktail parties by people who want to talk about dimensional reality because they've just seen "What the Bleep," I wouldn't worry about it as a threat to theoretical physics.

reply to post by americandingbat


I see. I was just afraid that this new age movement was becoming so popular that it would have an effect on the work that scientists do. I think Quantum Physics is remarkable in itself and that you don't need to make it spiritualistic to appreciate it. Do you see what I'm saying?

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I do see what you're saying. And I can see how you'd worry about that, considering the problems anti-evolutionists make for teaching scientific biology in schools.

But the situation with new age and quantum physics is a long way from that still

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Hello Friend

A cross section of society who are into spiritual development, those who are 'sensitives' or intuitively astute, or the multitudes of people who have had life-changing Near death experiences cannot be shoe-boxed as 'new agey' unless you wish to be seen as lacking discernment first of all. All due respect. You need to make the connection that spirituality deals with consciousness and that quantum mechanics (especially William Tiller's amazing research) factors in consciousness in the equation of physics.

It means that the knowings of these Truth in the minds and hearts on the spiritual path now have the representative examples in science. THAT's why they're speaking of it so frequently and passionately. These ideas of the idea of Universality being of the One and of Love and intelligent Lightand within All things are eternal and ancient.

Other people are having ET encounters where by way of their experience, they have gleaned the understanding of the concepts by the very way it altered relationships. It's a new way of perceiving our part in all this and so much more.

Are Crystal children or Indigo children I wonder, wanting to be 'new agey' because of these concepts? For What? The zen here is the fact that your words and expressions behind them convey negativity, hate, separatist, selfish, reactionary. So by way of your awareness gap of the way we know so much of the these mechanics, perhaps learning the science behind the ways we've discovered how mind & heart.

Who am I? How am I to speak on this? As a contactee, (consciously so since 2001).
What they showed me and had me come to understand and use these concepts with them.

If this time period requires some research to really discern the Truth. The Truth is not is ANY for of negative bullhorn, know-it-al- stuff. Because sir you do not. Again all respect to you as a friend. The 'new agey' people are the ones putting the integrated connectedness
putting it to use. The skeptical, those coming from typical human awareness are doing them a disservice, are doing them a great disservice. Applied physics is now of the mind. Outside of limited logical and intellectual understanding. We exist with limited 5-sense paradigm belief. That's an illusion and keeps you in separation, judgement, and sustains that which has served to make a man's consciousness, grey and not 'worthy'. Your worthiness would be your true self. Phds, top artists, scientists etc etc etc. I could never lump into some convenience response pattern anything I do not understand. To all those nuts and bolts UFO
researchers, get with it. The mind, consciousness, the heart, intention affect our world, affect us and can be seen by ETs. I have had upwards of 200 interactive experiences, so I
know whatever new agey people you may dismiss, you also come off as not too informed or
someone who doesn't understand the interconnections which are everywhere, and what that understanding and application opens up for open-minded, positie, Loving and sincere human beings.

I read this thread and believe I can explain what happens to make people believe they are enlightened.

For several thousand years Yogis and Gurus have been said to be enlightened and reached a higher plane of existence when they believe they can levitate, walk through solid objects unharmed, throw Chee energy from their fingertips to strike others, and read thoughts then control someone's actions through mental telepathy.

But if you look at these claims in a controlled setting they cannot actually perform any of them. They will blame almost anything to explain that failure. There is YouTube video of a National Geographic Channel program, Is It Real?, Superhuman Powers showing G. Dillman attempting his version of throwing Chee
G Dillman Nat Geo

These people are not faking. They believe they have these powers. In fact it is a psychotic-like belief. They function normally otherwise. They are not mentally ill.

The act of performing Qi Gong, Kundalini Yoga, or Karate in groups while maintaining a level of eyes-open concentration that requires full mental investment allows participants to subliminally detect the movement of others in their group activity.

Every one that ever lived had subliminal sight and peripheral vision reflexes. This is a brain system that breaks your concentration with a startle and reflex to turn and look at threat- movement in peripheral vision. If you are an astute observer you will remember that the startle happens before you consciously see the object. Your brain reacts to movement without identifying the object that moved. We can learn to ignore movement that would trigger the reflex when we are in a safe place and we are not at risk of attack.

There is a psychology demonstration on my site to show you subliminal sight and habituation in peripheral vision.

Demonstration of subliminal sight.

It was intentionally written for a sixth grade reader.

When you learn to ignore the movement so you can continue working the startle will stop. But no one has voluntary control over the primitive brain system that detects the movement and attempts the startle. Your brain's subliminal detection and efforts to trigger the startle are a Subliminal Distraction. This is explained in first semester psychology.

With enough Subliminal Distraction exposure you will have a mental break. Those with low level long term exposure begin to believe these psychotic-like delusions.

How do I know that? I spent five years investigating Subliminal Distraction. I gathered stories of events through history to show how the circumstances for SD exposure were present to explain the event.

You can create the "special circumstances" for SD exposure almost anywhere. Too-close side by side seating in class rooms allows SD exposure. Other places with high risk are small business offices, home computer workstations, and video game playing locations. When this problem was discovered the cubicle was created to deal with it. A cubicle blocks peripheral vision for a concentrating worker. They cannot see or detect others moving close by in their peripheral vision.

By observation you can see that sudden intense exposure such as eight hours daily in an office causes a temporary mental break. Low level long term exposure, like an hour or two each week performing group exercises, produces a fixed altered mental state with those bizarre beliefs.

SD exposure is silent, invisible and painless so that those with the bizarre delusions believe they arise out of their normal thought processes. They might have a dissociative event to begin the experience. They recover from the mental break but remember the delusions and act on them.

I hate NEW AGE People too!
they preach garbage
another replacement of true God
God absance in physics is no reasons
to create a new religion upon.

Calculate this if you r so good in physics!
Calculate the end of you as an individual!
Can you?
What I can't hear you!
You can't????

So what good is you NEW AGE RELIGION?
worth nothing! get a life!

reply to post by americandingbat


Yes. Research with quantum physics and the real world should be left in the hand of qualified scientists than the new agers.

I read the most recent issue of Discover magazine and they had articles about consciousness with scientific fact... and they had an article about how quantum physics relates to biology and biological processes...

More scientists need to be taking back this study of quantum physics back from these new age idiots who try to convert people to their Hindu quantum religion.

To me it seems like people are trying to find a way in which they can justify that their lives are important. In this day and age of overpopulation, the majority of the time you will see quite a few people doing the same thing with a few that wander off and do their own thing. Wanting to be different, independent, and one that sticks out from the rest of the crowd.

Coming from someone who was into this "New Age" fad type of thing, I'd say that was my main reason just as well, then I delved deeper into philosophy and some other courses at our local university. New age is really a feel good "drug" without it being a "Drug" in a way, the moment I stopped doing it I got bored and slightly depressed. Yet when I read on philosophy, think on critical matters that pertain to life, after-life and various other things that same feeling comes back.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post if it comes off that what I am stating is that new agers are merely trying to get by. I'm just giving my own perspective and opinion about it and hope I didn't step on any toes or anything

For me. I was mostly an illiterate person. I never read and I never really asked anyone about spirituality, but I did think alot. I thought about my life, what was real, how can I find truth? Was truth even real? I eventually began to seek deeper meaning in almost everything I did, but I would think about it durring and after it happened. The more I thought the less it made sense. I was so confused I was begining to feel imaginary. I was lost on a daily basis unable to function like a human being. I was so out of it people would treat me like a moran as if I was 10 years old. This only perpetuated my confusion since I seemed unfit for this world. I was pretty much a complete reject. What was real? I wasnt even real. Is this me? A shadow.

Eventually as time wore on I began to awaken. I learned that to think at all was only ment for when I was alone. I could not properly search for truth analyzing it and questioning it. Reveiwing it back and forth in my mind intill what I thought and what I knew, merged into a complete illusion. Nothing made sense, but I had found a single somthing that could guide me. That was my heart. My heart showed me the way and for the first time in probably my entire life I experienced the present and felt the now. For the first time I knew who I was. For the first time I felt the world. I was among it. For the first time I belonged. For the first time I was not so distent. I saw a piece of myself in strangers. I felt their precense inside of me. I could feel the love and pain of all the passers by. It changed my life.

After that I realized I had my first spiritual experience so I bought some books about it. What the books did was only fuel what I had figured out. I charish this information because I am not a well spoken man. They were able to put into words what I could not. They re-established what I had found and gave me confidence in my new belief.

So these books and "New age" beliefs even though they are thousands of years old arent just for bullblank and money. They really do help people put things in perspective. Of course though I really didnt need to read the books, but they gave me some clarity on my newly found information.

I do agree though. Some people use this stuff as a prop or to be "unique" or "different" failing to realize what its truly about. Its not to make people feel important either. Its to help people become the best person they can be. Its suppost to show you how to live a good and fullfilling life.

This whole thread is kind of corupting it and blending it within all the rest of the BS. It sort of dissapoints me. And to give it a name makes me feel dumb. Its no religion or new age. Its god damn advice. Whats wrong with you people? Whatever you think its about is not what its about. You cant just read or listen to what they say. You have to experience. Go and test it out. If it doesnt work than dont believe it.

I also think that people babbling about this sort of thing when no one is asking for advice discredits everything that is being said because it truly is only advice. You do not yell advice at someone enless he asks for it.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by Wisen Heimer]

reply to post by Wisen Heimer


I've tested their techniques out. I'm a former addict to the laws of attraction and most of that BS.

As someone who has underwent a lot of strife myself I can say that I got out of all of my life's problems without using any of the techniques of theirs. Most of their techniques made my life worse.

For example, the law of attraction... the way I see it is that people act in a certain way and if you'll react to them in a certain way they'll react to you in a certain way. Okay, but, if you constantly think about that stuff it'll end up corrupting you like it did to me.

I too was once like the way you were. When I grew up I had few friends. I had an ear infection until I was in 8th grade so I didn't grow up knowing how to talk. I didn't grow up like other people. I had ADHD so I couldn't concentrate. They got me off ADHD medication when I was 13 years old and for the next 4 years or so I was fighting the after-effects of the medication.

I got interested in these law of attractions and these so called laws and these stories they had of success... and I asked these questions about life the universe and other things... then I realized that my life is much better when I don't worry about those things and I realized how silly it is to think there is some covenant with the universe that will give me everything.

Do you really think that the universe will give you everything just because you ask for it? What about those people at gitmo? Did they ask to be incarcerated and tortured and abused?

Do you think that the people who got caught in the crossfire in the Israeli conflict asked for that? Do you think that people in the Iraq war asked to die? Do you think that the Jews asked for a Genocide from the masters of the universe during World War II?

Do you think that we asked for the economy to collapse? Did we ask for corruption with the government?

Did you ask for the problems in your life?

I didn't. But, with that in mind, when I was obsessed with these so called techniques of theirs I began obsessing about possibilities of higher beings and higher forces controlling them.

Then I realized, that hey people aren't that bad, and that people are living, breathing, and they think for themselves. People don't react to some law of the universe. They react to you and what you do. People don't react to unseen forces of the law of attraction. People are unpredictable.

When you become obsessed with these laws that these self help people try to tell you about you see people as less human. People don't follow any specific laws. As I've said they are unpredictable.

I decided to drop the self help stuff and devote an equal amount of time that I spent in reading self help stuff into reading science and politics.

I think that stopping reading these things that these new age self help gurus really was the best decision in my life.

I've been so much better off since I've discarded religion out of my life and I've started reading about social sciences and physics.

Most of this new age stuff can corrupt you IMO.

I think you might be right. That whole attraction thing I can sort of relate to. I tried that durring college, but its not about thinking what to do. Its really about displaying your true emotions. All this crap is largely centered around the soul which is obvious. The mind is not really an important tool regarding self exploration. You shouldnt have to think about anything that you are doing. What you should be doing is allowing yourself to fully express yourself. Devine expression. Following your instincts, 6th sense, and most importantly your heart. Thinking is something you should only do alone. Everything else should be an subconscious expression. A pure display of self. People will like you if you are able to do that. And it is actually hard to do and takes practice. Just leave your thoughts for when you are alone.

I think all this spiritual crap can be simplified to, "Follow your heart." You dont need to read any books if you do that. The heart will show you everything you need to know.

I think the downfall was probably trying to explain this kind of stuff intellectually which is not possible without misinterpretation. But I really didnt learn much from the books. I guess most of them probably are crap. Because the most important advice I could ever give someone is, "Follow your heart without hesitation." Thats really all you need to know. It would save people alot of reading and confusion to just open up to one page with that written on it.

Its really suppost to be about transcending the BS and awakening the inner you who is everything you ever wanted to be. Now the mind and your thoughts/self conscious/stretagizing whatever is a bunch of BS. There is no stretagy to life. You live it as it. That is all. In my interpretation it makes everyone seem so much more than just people. They are pieces of me. By making someone else my introspection I have learned things about me. Its a tool for your personal discovery.

As far as all the 4th dimension alien stuff I would consider that to be BS. Im not sure why they include that stuff in there because it doesnt really help anyone out.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by Wisen Heimer]

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I'd like to throw out there that stuff people call "New Age" is often really ancient teachings of Taoism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism and even things like the old European mystery schools like the lines that the Freemasons descend from or even ancient "alchemists."

If you don't get anything out of it, each respective philosophy has already had millions of followers. And none of them have any kind of dictating authority over me like the Church does over so many Christians. It's all philosophical, and you can join them all together and then some. I also love science, right there with the rest of them. But all are just equally meaningful and meaningless ways of looking at your universe if you have a stable enough mind.

reply to post by bsbray11


Yes, but these people are profiting off of those religions. They are giving people false hope by claiming they have healing power and like you said millions believe them since they use religion to back up their claims. That's my issue. That they are making money off of good theories and good ideas. They are scams.

Quantum Physics gives as much power to new age freaks as it does to skeptics.

I used to be into the new age stuff, i will still say i have a spiritual perspective and spend time tuning into it, but as time has gone on i'm amazed at how much people delude themselves that they are the center of the universe and it's sole purpose is to serve them.

The thing about new age philosophy is the lack of logic. A hundred theories (which aren't really theories at all) are made up using self referencing sources, and from that a whole new word of pseudo-science is born.

The funny thing about new age people is most of them believe in abundance, yet most of them don't have a lot of money. The ones that do are the teachers, generally, who make $$$ of teaching others how to be more 'spiritual'

The truth is, we're all just fine as we are. Remember, Quantum Physics is all about the observer changing the way particles behave. Thus the skeptic has as much power as the believer.